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Razule

How will Sonic Forces be looked back on?

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Majority of people I've seen outside of Sonic forums like these seem to think it looks good. The people who played it apparently enjoyed it.. I think. Judging by how it is now, I think it's going to go up there with the Adventures in how polarizing it is. 

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3 minutes ago, Razule said:

Majority of people I've seen outside of Sonic forums like these seem to think it looks good. The people who played it apparently enjoyed it.. I think. Judging by how it is now, I think it's going to go up there with the Adventures in how polarizing it is. 

I thought the Adventures were generally well-regarded games?

Later games that used the "Adventure" gameplay style but weren't part of the SA series proper like Heroes, Shadow, and 2k6 were the ones that were viewed way less favorably.

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SA1 and 2 aren't favored by critics much these days, but they still have a ton of fans, especially people who got into the Sonic series during the GameCube era. They may not have the overwhelming reception of the classics, but within the fanbase they're still well-regarded for the most part, even if they've been dissected for their flaws to hell and back by now. You aren't going to find many fans who are a fan of modern Sonic yet think the Adventure series is atrocious.

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16 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

I thought the Adventures were generally well-regarded games?

Later games that used the "Adventure" gameplay style but weren't part of the SA series proper like Heroes, Shadow, and 2k6 were the ones that were viewed way less favorably.

It..depends on where you look honestly. Sometimes the Adventures were god's gift and Sonic Team needs to return to it, other times they're irredeemable garbage and Boost is perfect/Sonic has never had a solid base in 3D.

Among the fans, I'd say MOST like it, but the more critical minority (i.e. found on Sonic boards) picks them apart. Much like Forces imo.

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Better than it deserves, probably. If you just look at it casually it seems like a pretty run of the mill Sonic game, with one of the series' less intrusive gimmicks. It doesn't seem buggy, the levels are fairly easy and short, it's easy to go fast, and while the story is real dumb it's not as overtly awful as some others in the series. People who are just reviewing it, or just doing one story playthrough and moving on, probably aren't going to hate it. Combine that with the people who are going to genuinely love it, for whatever reason, and it'll probably end up falling into the "not great, but ok" category in most people's eyes. Unfortunately.

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Probably as a Sonic game. /s

More than likely not much different than something like the Advance or Rush games. Inferior to plenty, but nothing so terrible that you can shit on it without looking slightly mad. It's sort of like one of the better Kingdom Hearts filler games. A perfectly fine game, just the series on autopilot until the next really awesome release.

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The Sonic Forces hate...I mean, er, criticism isn't just something I see on this forum. It's pretty prevalent on places like reddit and Youtube. It's just not overwhelmingly so as there are plenty who're defending it. So yes, very polarizing. 

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The Adventure games are only mostly well regarded among Adventure fans. They're extremely polarizing among all Sonic fans and criticized often among general gamers (when they care enough to participate in the discussion). Some Sonic fans think they're the golden age of 3D Sonic; some think they're the beginning of Sonic's dark ages. I do think general gamers probably would agree with the latter sentiment as well, since as early as SA2:Battle in 2002 those games started receiving mediocre review scores and generating memes like "Sonic's stupid friends" "Shadow the Edgehog", etc, etc.

Not trying to pile on here because I don't at all hate the adventure games (far from it).

 

But Forces has a ways to go before it gets the same level of passion among Sonic fans as the adventure games.... and probably won't. For all their warts, they are loved by many fans and then one could not criticize Sonic Team for lack of effort or passion, especially with SA1. SA1 in particular was among their most ambitious projects ever and showed a Sonic Team who still cared (and remembered what the series was still "supposed" to be).

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The post Unleashed era of Sonic games dont really hold up in the eyes of a lot of the fanbase aand I expect this trend to continue with Forces. This wont be a game very warmly recieved by fans even after the dust has settled.

Wether its the "shallow blocky gameplay" (Colors, Forces), "cringey" stories that ruin the characters (Colors, SLW, Forces), "lack of passion" (all of them), too short (all of them),  with little replayablity (all of them). Ironically crtics are a lot more lenient to this era then the fans are so maybe down the line will get a inverse of what the Adventure titiles have become, critics like/tolerate it (and by extension Forces), while fans will continue to cite them as when Sonic "went downhill" 

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42 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

....I think we all will be able to make much better guesses in SIX DAYS!!!!

Why is everyone talking about Forces quality, legacy and how well it made before it even comes out?

Leaks...some of us have seen the whole game now.

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1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

....I think we all will be able to make much better guesses in SIX DAYS!!!!

Why is everyone talking about Forces quality, legacy and how well it made before it even comes out?

Because a few people on here actually have the game and shit on it?

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Aside from recycled assets, I haven't seen anyone putting this below Colors. So I don't see how it is received any worse.

Although it has to help when you are on every contemporary platform instead of just one.

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Will this game have a Donald Trump esque surprise "win" on release day? 

All the conventional wisdom says it's not a good selection but yet there is that loud group of fans who are utterly convinced otherwise. Will Forces win the election for future direction of the franchise?

It's that Tuesday in November, folks. In just a few days, you must show up to the polls. Vote with your money.

 

(Mania is Bernie Sanders)

/s

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Visually great yet mediocre gameplay.  

It's below Lost World to me. At least they did expand on Sonic in some way.

13 hours ago, Soniman said:

The post Unleashed era of Sonic games dont really hold up in the eyes of a lot of the fanbase aand I expect this trend to continue with Forces. This wont be a game very warmly recieved by fans even after the dust has settled.

Wether its the "shallow blocky gameplay" (Colors, Forces), "cringey" stories that ruin the characters (Colors, SLW, Forces), "lack of passion" (all of them), too short (all of them),  with little replayablity (all of them). Ironically crtics are a lot more lenient to this era then the fans are so maybe down the line will get a inverse of what the Adventure titiles have become, critics like/tolerate it (and by extension Forces), while fans will continue to cite them as when Sonic "went downhill" 

Eh..

I'd say Post-Generations. Generations got everyone hyped and the game surprisingly somewhat delivered. Fans consider it the best of the boost gameplay and a nice return to 2D gameplay. Colors was a year before Generations and the fans seem to like that game too.

14 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

The Adventure games are only mostly well regarded among Adventure fans. They're extremely polarizing among all Sonic fans and criticized often among general gamers (when they care enough to participate in the discussion). Some Sonic fans think they're the golden age of 3D Sonic; some think they're the beginning of Sonic's dark ages. I do think general gamers probably would agree with the latter sentiment as well, since as early as SA2:Battle in 2002 those games started receiving mediocre review scores and generating memes like "Sonic's stupid friends" "Shadow the Edgehog", etc, etc.

Not trying to pile on here because I don't at all hate the adventure games (far from it).

 

But Forces has a ways to go before it gets the same level of passion among Sonic fans as the adventure games.... and probably won't. For all their warts, they are loved by many fans and then one could not criticize Sonic Team for lack of effort or passion, especially with SA1. SA1 in particular was among their most ambitious projects ever and showed a Sonic Team who still cared (and remembered what the series was still "supposed" to be).

Sonic Next Gen had lots of passion and creativity. Iizuka clearly had passion in making Sonic games for the casual audience. Even the most hated Sonic Boom had the feeling of great effort put into it(look at the prototype video and artwork). Most Sonic games have the passion if we are to be honest. Some however, either got the boot from Sega mid development(Sonic 06 and Boom) or the vision wasn't quite up to par with Sonic fans(Heroes/SHTH)

 

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1 hour ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Visually great yet mediocre gameplay.  

It's below Lost World to me. At least they did expand on Sonic in some way.

Eh..

I'd say Post-Generations. Generations got everyone hyped and the game surprisingly somewhat delivered. Fans consider it the best of the boost gameplay and a nice return to 2D gameplay. Colors was a year before Generations and the fans seem to like that game too.

Sonic Next Gen had lots of passion and creativity. Iizuka clearly had passion in making Sonic games for the casual audience. Even the most hated Sonic Boom had the feeling of great effort put into it(look at the prototype video and artwork). Most Sonic games have the passion if we are to be honest. Some however, either got the boot from Sega mid development(Sonic 06 and Boom) or the vision wasn't quite up to par with Sonic fans(Heroes/SHTH)

 

I would not qualify Sonic Next Gen ('06) as Sonic Team having passion. Yuji Naka quitting Sonic Team halfway through development is sort of an automatic disqualifier. That game was a complete mess from top to bottom that needs to be forgotten. It did nothing right and if we're to imagine a universe with a fully polished Sonic '06, we're wasting our time because we're imagining a completely different game at that point.

Boom is different because it wasn't even a mainline Sonic game and not produced by Sonic Team. I criticize SEGA for allowing that game to be released but Sonic Team had little to do with it and I don't really point fingers at them for that.

I do not believe each Sonic game in the Modern era has been made with the same level of effort. Whether by company meddling or not, some projects were given maximum effort and passion by the company and developers and some were not, regardless of the result. I think SA1 and Unleashed are two good examples of Sonic Team giving it their all and the marketing by the company running at full scale, even though the execution was not totally solid; games like Heroes, Shadow, '06, Boom were not for several reasons that have been discussed many times. 

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I believe Sonic Forces will be seen as a good game, not great or groundbreaking, in the eyes of most people. The story has some or perhaps many major flaws to those who are intimately acquainted with the franchise and its very elaborate, extensive canon. However, for most average gamers, Sonic Forces will be just a game about a talking blue hedgehog which also happens to have a story depth and seriousness well above the average of most platformers. Outside of the likes of SSMB and Sonic Retro, my anecdotal observation is that there are many more than this small demographic who are sincerely pleased by Sonic Forces: the numerous Sonic OC character creators on DeviantArt who are ecstatic due to the Avatar feature; and Sonic Adventure hopefuls who see this game's story and premise as a small yet significant step forward for the franchise. This could be the silent majority that UpCDownCLeftCRightC is alluding to (though, for him, in humor only) which could have a Trump/Brexit-like effect on the game's commercial reception. That said, I may have been one of the few who accurately predicted the U.S. presidential election results months in advance through statistical reweighting to align with the actual projected Democrat, Independent, and Republican make-up (not the ridiculous D+8, D+10, D+12 and D+16 weightings the mainstream media was pulling). However, I have no certainty if this kind of outcome is going to be the same case for Sonic Forces since there is no statistical data to verify this one way or the other.

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35 minutes ago, hifihedgehog said:

I believe Sonic Forces will be seen as a good game, not great or groundbreaking, in the eyes of most people. The story has some or perhaps many major flaws to those who are intimately acquainted with the franchise and its very elaborate, extensive canon. However, for most average gamers, Sonic Forces will be just a game about a talking blue hedgehog which also happens to have a story depth and seriousness well above the average of most platformers. Outside of the likes of SSMB and Sonic Retro, my anecdotal observation is that there are many more than this small demographic who are sincerely pleased by Sonic Forces: the numerous Sonic OC character creators on DeviantArt who are ecstatic due to the Avatar feature; and Sonic Adventure hopefuls who see this game's story and premise as a small yet significant step forward for the franchise. This could be the silent majority that UpCDownCLeftCRightC is alluding to which could have a Trump/Brexit-like effect on the game's commercial reception. That said, I may have been one of the few who accurately predicted the U.S. presidential election results months in advance through statistical reweighting to align with the actual projected Democrat, Independent, and Republican make-up (not the ridiculous D+8, D+10, D+12 and D+16 weightings the mainstream media was pulling). However, I have no certainty if this kind of outcome is going to be the same case for Sonic Forces since there is no statistical data to verify this one way or the other.

I just want to point out that I was joking......

....

Its not clear what the majority appeal is with Sonic today... other than that the mainstream audience doesn't find him appealing enough to continue buying his games. Its really only diehard Sonic fans that have been keeping the franchise afloat since 2006 as sales have been steadily declining.

I think this game is important for SEGA in identifying how to focus going forward. So I used the analogy in that sense but not beyond it in any way.

Who is the silent majority? Evidently it is the millions of people that used to buy Sonic games in America and Europe that no longer give a s**t, not us who argue about multiple playable characters and "Serious" stories being cool ideas if Sonic Team would just try real hard one more time. The ones who stopped buying are the silent majority. They know Sonic exists but stopping caring long ago because his games stink, even though the character is still emminently recognizable. 

They're....far too silent.... and SEGA is trying to get them to speak up again.

 

There is plenty of noise from Classic fans, Adventure fans, Boost fans, Deviantart fans, etc. Sonic Team has been slaves to us for more than a decade because no one else has cared about their games in that time. Whatever will capture the attention of the "far too silent" majority, will determine what Sonic is in the future.

 

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13 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I just want to point out that I was joking......

I knew, and I could not help but notice that the actual joke may be your joke coming back to haunt you later. :D 

 

13 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Its not clear what the majority appeal is with Sonic today...

Maybe, maybe not, but I have found in my own experience that certain online venues are better demographical representations than others. My experience tells me, for example, that Reddit is a more accurate, properly distributed reflection of the prevailing public discourse than what other sites may suggest. r/SonictheHedgehog's userbase is largely pleased by the leaks in Sonic Forces in contrast with their dismal experience with Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, which leads me to believe the game holds promise in the gaming community at large. You also fail to estimate the sheer number of Sonic OC artists on DeviantArt, which in my insta-quick, non-scientific scroll-and-counting methodology, number easily in the thousands, many of which appear to be positively hyped for Sonic Forces.

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Some fans will say its crap. Others will say its great. Others will just go "eh". Insults and ridicule due to wavering opinions. Then years later, expect a "maybe it wasn't as bad as I remembered".

Still not sure at this time if the game reaches SA2 polarizing levels.

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