Playable Characters Discussion

[TailsTellsTales]

Welcome!

Look at this picture here. What do you see here? You see many various characters of the Sonic series perhaps. But do you see what I see? Maybe if you look harder you will notice something. I will tell you what I see. I see amazing wasted potential here. I see great things that could happen here. Let me tell you what Sega / Sonic Team sees here. They see Sonic and occasionally they see Dr. Eggman. They do not see the other characters. They do not see no opportunity for any other characters. They only see Sonic. Even Amy Rose is able to see other characters besides Sonic.

Sega only sees Sonic in that picture and occasionally Dr. Eggman.

I made this thread because I strongly feel that there needs to be serious attention given to the other characters. I been checking through the other threads on here and found that playable character discussions have been happening since 2010! That is ridiculous and outrageous! The last time a main 3D Sonic game had playable characters was Sonic '06 in 2006. Over 10 years ago! I have been on many forms of media involving Sonic, and one thing that constantly gets talked about is playable characters. I am seeing these people desperate for their beloved characters to make a comeback. There is so much potential in Sonic games with playable characters if they are done correctly and properly. Online multiplayer could be major if they utilized their characters for such a purpose. But Sega seems to not care about their other characters. Like I said above they only see Sonic. Nothing matters but Sonic and only Sonic. It has became so bad that they have TWO SONIC'S playable in their latest masterpiece Sonic Forces! They make Amy's obsession look tame compared to Sega. Speaking of Amy, she is one of many characters I noticed many people are desperate to be playable. Others include Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze, Silver, and The Chaotix themselves. There are more but those get mentioned the most.

She really wants to be playable.

What can we do to get Sega / Sonic Team to bring back playable characters? How can we make Sega / Sonic Team realize the great benefits of playable characters? How can we stop Sega / Sonic Team obsession with Sonic only gameplay? It has got to stop! It's been too many years!

Let me say that in no way am I picking on Sonic himself. I know he is the main character but he is not the only main character. There are other main type characters too that been around. In no way is this an attack on Sonic himself as anyone who knows me will know that Sonic himself is my second most favorite character. But I strongly feel the other characters need their time to shine and show their potential as well for many others who feel the same. If you are somebody who prefers Sonic only gameplay, then please be respectful of others who would like other characters playable.

Silver has huge potential with his cool powers to be playable.

Quick Summary for those who want to skip long post

Generally this thread is for talking about playable Sonic characters. Some questions to perhaps consider. Why the other Sonic characters are not playable in main 3D Sonic games? What we can do to bring them back? How to stop Sega from their obsession with Sonic only gameplay? What are good ways to use the other characters in games? How should they play in a main 3D game? What would playable characters mean to you? Should certain characters get a game of their own? And any other things related to our beloved other characters. Does not necessarily have to be 3D talk either. I know Classic Amy would be nice in 2D Sonic. But it is mainly 3D talk.

These 3 made reappearance in Sonic Forces but maybe they can be playable.

My Personal Thoughts About Playable Characters

Playable characters to me adds replay value. They make games more fun and interesting if done right. They are great to use for multiplayer. Though I will admit the main character I really want playable is Tails. Yes I do want the others back as well, but If you do not know by now, Tails is my most favorite of the Sonic characters. He has ALWAYS been my favorite since I was little kid. Tails for many years was playable but then after Sonic '06 he was dropped as playable, even in games you thought he would be playable like Sonic 4 Episode 2. Other characters that were once playable are no longer playable like Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Silver, Chaotix, etc. It is really sad to me. Sonic Forces was the last straw for me especially how they betrayed Tails as weak and as you can see in this picture he is far from weak.

Tails is awesome!

That is it! Have at it! PS: I spent 3 hours on this!

[Razule]

I'd like multiple playable characters back, but there's still the question of how they would make most of them playable in a way that compliments the base (Sonic's) gameplay. Like.. Silver. No idea what they could do with him.

[RedFox99]

To be honest, Cream is probably one of the least utilized characters. I mean the last time she was playable in a main series game was in Heroes which was almost 15 years ago and she hasn't had much relevance to the games' plots since. Even in the comics she was sidelined a lot and was the last one in the first picture to be introduced. 

[Dr. Mechano]

I think it's time for Sonic Team to bring back and improve playable Eggman. 

The SA1 Gamma stages were a bit clunky, and then SA2 refined them a bit. Made them more robust and more fun. But they can do better. Make his mech a bit more agile, add some more moves, make the level designs and enemies more engaging and interesting. There's potentially for some amazing gameplay here, and I know I'm not the only one who wants to see Eggman hop behind the wheel of the Egg Walker and blast his way through action-packed levels and boss fights once again.

Plus, hey, plenty of you guys want other villains to get a chance to shine. Making Eggman playable is a way to do that while still making him an important character in the story who gets lots of focus, and even gets to demonstrate a more (anti-)heroic side against a rival villain. It's certainly preferable to him just being knocked aside and then no longer contributing to the narrative.

Mania brought back playable Tails and Knuckles, and it was awesome. Now I want to see Eggman return to playable glory, shouting a hearty "yosh" as he blasts huge combos of enemies.

Make it happen, Sega.

[Dr. Egguman]

I always thought that if SEGA want to put Sonic friends playable once again, they need to have, at least, his own ways to play and designed stages. I mean, Sonic can play like adventure/boost, Tails like the Adventure (or classic days, but make something special to him), Knuckles like werehog? I don't want a werechidna, but I always look forward to a fight gameplay with Knuckles, Amy and Shadow can play just like adventure days too, I mean, Shadow looks more like a Sonic clone in Sonic Forces, I'm a little bit dissapointed cuz this feel like a model replace.

[Dannymax440]

I say maybe 3-5 playable per game.

Replay value and NO padding.

Get people to stop bitching about multiple characters being a problem.

Have competent developers who'll make the play styles fun and stick to Sonic's core.

 A story where they actually do something.

And BOOM! The perfect Sonic game.

Spoiler

If the rest of the cast gets a positive reception in Forces there is no excuse to not have at least some of them playable in the next game.

 

[hifihedgehog]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

I'd like multiple playable characters back, but there's still the question of how they would make most of them playable in a way that compliments the base (Sonic's) gameplay. Like.. Silver. No idea what they could do with him.

As I recall, Silver was supposed to be faster in ‘06 but due to technical issues or limitations was slowed down in order for his gameplay to work. If we is fast like he is in the cutscene battle with Infinite, that would be one more aspect of his play style that mesh well with a Sonic-style stage: fast enough to make it through its length.

[Razule]

9 minutes ago, hifihedgehog said:

As I recall, Silver was supposed to be faster in ‘06 but due to technical issues or limitations was slowed down in order for his gameplay to work. If we is fast like he is in the cutscene battle with Infinite, that would be one more aspect of his play style that mesh well with a Sonic-style stage: fast enough to make it through its length.

Yeah, but there's still the stop-and-go aspect. People are annoyed with some of the Avatar's weapons necessiating that

[SpongicX]

I agree with everything, I want to see them back, but have each character have the same levels as Sonic, but have unique abilities to traverse through the stages.

I suppose if one character should have levels only they can access, it would be Eggman. It would be neat to see Eggman playable again. Maybe give him a transforming eggmobile? One that can unlock new weapons and gear throughout the game. For weapons, there could be projectile and physical weapons. For projectile, he could have lasers, canons, rapid fire, missile launchers. For close range, he could have robotic boxing gloves, a drill, a wrecking ball, etc.

Eggman’s eggmobile should have transformations to allow him to travel across land, across water, underwater, or fly through the air. To make things interesting, these extra abilities could be absent at first, yet be unlocked through story progression and purchased with ring currency.

I also want to see what else the others could do in a modern Sonic game. Maybe see Silver take control of badniks with his powers. Amy could be faster and more athletic, while having better hammer attacks and maneuvers. Give Tails a long jump, and give Knuckles the ability to punch while climbing, in order to fight off flying and wall climbing enemies, or to break open secret entrances.

There is so much Sega could do with the characters, and it sickens me how we’ve gone nearly 11 years without any signs of them ever making a playable return in an official modern 3d Sonic game.

[hifihedgehog]

48 minutes ago, Razule said:

Yeah, but there's still the stop-and-go aspect. People are annoyed with some of the Avatar's weapons necessiating that

A solution: make every character in the roster optional except for the character whose play style you like most. You only have to beat the game with the character or characters you prefer. Whether that is Big the Cat or Tails Doll from a vast universe of characters, let the players have the decision for how they play.

[SpongicX]

5 minutes ago, hifihedgehog said:

A solution: make every character in the roster optional except for the character whose play style you like most. You only have to beat the game with the character or characters you prefer.

That’s another thing Sega could do. Make the story mode playable for Sonic only, and unlock other characters for replayability. That way Sega doesn’t need to worry about upstaging the main character, or struggle with multiple characters and gameplay for the main story.

However, if it were a game with a hub world, it might be a bummer if only Sonic is playable in the hub. That’s where it would be nice to be able to roam around as the others upon beating the game. It gives the gamers more variety of things to do.

[hifihedgehog]

3 hours ago, SpongicX said:

That’s another thing Sega could do. Make the story mode playable for Sonic only, and unlock other characters for replayability

Here is another thought: make Story Mode playable for every character. Naturally, dialogue cannot be recorded for every character. So just do the dialogue for those characters the way Nintendo does for Link and Mario: grunts, noises and short catchphrases backing up subtitles.

Here is one solution. Fans seem to know far better what they want than SEGA does. It is for reasons like this and when I see solutions presented like this that I feel SEGA should hire fans to play a critical role in the development of 3D Sonic games.

Source:

https://nibroc-rock.deviantart.com/art/Sonic-Gameplay-Concepts-700502744

[SpongicX]

So, you basically want them stripped of their personalities, and not let them speak for themselves anymore? Basically turn them into a mute “yes man”? That wouldn’t sit well with me. I may have grown up with Sonic 1 as my introduction to the Sonic series, but I grew to love seeing the characters speak for themselves, and express themselves through both dialogue and action. The voice acting did start out rough, but it got a lot better after the adventure era.

To this day, I still kind of wish the Mario games tried hanging onto voice acting. Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine had voice acting in certain segments, and while it wasn’t great, I’d still like to see Nintendo try better. I hate how most games try making it look like Mario can’t speak, aside  from just saying his quotes from Mario 64.

Charles Martinet has done some funny impersonations with Mario’s voice in interviews, and I wish to see more of Mario’s funny dialogue in the games. I miss the funny intros from the sport games on N64 and Gamecube. Those had some funny voice acting in it from Wario and Waluigi.

I hated how in the Mario & Sonic story modes, how all the  characters had speech, yet Mario and Luigi were mute, and had to have freaking Toad speak for them. It wasn’t very exciting to see Sonic compliment Mario for being nice to see him, only for Mario to jump, and have Toad describe how Mario is happy to see Sonic too. Even freaking animals and creatures like DK, Yoshi, and Bowser had dialogue, yet they didn’t need Toad to translate them.

Is it so hard to give Mario a little dialogue? I don’t think Mario needs to be a chatterbox, it could be handled in a Samurai Jack style, where he only speaks when he really needs to.

I will admit Mario Odyssey’s cutscenes were handled better than Galaxy’s. While there wasn’t full voice acting, it was still interesting to see Bowser grumble Mario and Peach’s names whenever the subtitles showed up. Heck, we even heard Mario say “Peach” for once! He shouted her name out after the final battle. Even Peach was given a little more dialogue in this game, instead of just shouting “Mario!” like she did in the Galaxy games, we heard her say more things, like “help me!”, “no!”, “look out”, “let go of me”. It wasn’t full voice acting, but it did give off more personality, and helped make the opening cutscene more suspenseful and exciting than it needed to be.

Sorry for the long rant, but I guess what I’m saying is, I like voice acting for characters in games, and would hate to see it go. It bums me out to see Nintendo give up on voice acting in Mario games, and I’d hate to see Sega do the same with Sonic.

32 minutes ago, hifihedgehog said:

Here is another thought: make Story Mode playable for every character. Naturally, dialogue cannot be recorded for every character. So just do the dialogue for those characters the way Nintendo does for Link and Mario: grunts, noises and short catchphrases backing up subtitles.

Here is one solution. Fans seem to know far better what they want than SEGA does. It is for reasons like this and when I see solutions produced like this that I feel SEGA should hire fans to play a critical role in the development of 3D Sonic games.

Source:

https://nibroc-rock.deviantart.com/art/Sonic-Gameplay-Concepts-700502744

I do like those concepts , but I’d rather have those characters playable. Heck, I think it would be neat to let the Sonic charcters wear the avatar gear. I’d rather customize the characters I root for, instead of being forced to make up a character I really don’t want to care about. It’s bad enough the others are neglected, now I have to make up a character to upstage them?

[hifihedgehog]

26 minutes ago, SpongicX said:

So, you basically want them stripped of their personalities, and not let them speak for themselves anymore? Basically turn them into a mute “yes man”?

 

55 minutes ago, hifihedgehog said:

Naturally, dialogue cannot be recorded for every character.

No, I said for "those" characters which could not have audio recorded, and this is due to costs or what not. For the current main modern cast (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Silver, Blaze, Shadow, Rouge, Omega, Vector, Espio, Charmy), they would have lines recorded to accompany their subtitled dialogue, though, like they normally do. For many other characters in the expanded universe, though, such as Fang, Mighty, Sally, Big the Cat, Tikal, Jet the Hawk, and so on, which I propose being made available via optional DLC packs, they may or may not necessarily have recorded audio.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

Sonic generations and Unleashed were exceptions(context matters).

Sonic and the black knight had you play as his friends even though it was a side title. So really, about 8 years.

I think they should do what Advance 3 did. Either have a complex partner system or make the playable side characters in their own games. Hell, they can be in the main ones as long as sonic gameplay isn't compromised.

[dbzfan7]

Hey there was a 3D Sonic game that had friends playable Rise of Lyr *SHOT*

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

3 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Hey there was a 3D Sonic game that had friends playable Rise of Lyr *SHOT*

True. Same with Shattered Crystals and Fire/Ice.

OP needs to mention the quality of said playable characters, not when.

[dbzfan7]

8 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

True. Same with Shattered Crystals and Fire/Ice.

OP needs to mention the quality of said playable characters, not when.

I think the question was directed at 3D games not 2D

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

I think this should be handled by creating a side series where multiple playable characters and experimental playstyle additions are an option. That way, Sonic Team can experiment without worrying about mainstream backlash and if they find a great idea, make subtle changes to the primary formula.

In the main games, I'm largely of the opinion that extra characters should only be optional extensions to the main gameplay and few in number. Because otherwise there's far too much of a consistency problem in both gameplay and story/narrative. The Sonic canon should try to remain consistent and simple, since SEGA evidently wants this to be a AAA franchise, and stick to one primary mode that has an utterly phenomenal gameplay and appealing universe/aesthetic that will attract the largest general audience.... and not the small, "niche" audience that currently buys Sonic games. 

Take 'em out of the main games and relegate them to a side series and use the side series for further development. Its best for the franchise, without question. And everyone wins. 

[Shadowlax]

20 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I think this should be handled by creating a side series where multiple playable characters and experimental playstyle additions are an option. That way, Sonic Team can experiment without worrying about mainstream backlash and if they find a great idea, make subtle changes to the primary formula.

Sonic will always receive mainstream backlash. You need, the rest of the fanbase needs, and sonic team themselves needs to come to this reality, there is no  " everyone is cool with sonic " timeline. Due to multiple failures and weird experimentation, this series will get poked fun at. That's it, that's the reality no amount of " appealing to the masses" as if sonic wasn't doing that before, is going to fix that. 

Do I think there should be spin off games staring different characters? Yes, but their exclusions from the main games, isn't, and didn't fix those games, what it comes down to is " is sega able to consinstantly put out good sonic games" and the answer is no

20 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

In the main games, I'm largely of the opinion that extra characters should only be optional extensions to the main gameplay and few in number. Because otherwise there's far too much of a consistency problem in both gameplay and story/narrative.

The most popular character that isn't sonic, is shadow , and his backstory is....complicated. And considering sonic teams love of making batshit stories or not explaining connectivity in any regard, or explaining in such a non way it somehow makes it more complicated than they previously stated/everyone thought, I don't think you are gonna get a simple canon ever.

20 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

The Sonic canon should try to remain consistent and simple, since SEGA evidently wants this to be a AAA franchise, and stick to one primary mode that has an utterly phenomenal gameplay and appealing universe/aesthetic that will attract the largest general audience.... and not the small, "niche" audience that currently buys Sonic games. 

So this issue with this is, there are different audiences that like different aesthetic. To play up with my previous point, some people don't just like modern sonic, they only classic sonic, some people are fond of adventure sonic, some people like things in combination. I think mania is the right way to go, fuck a universal aesthetic, just make a sonic game that's one thing, and then go all in on that one thing and polish it up. And if people from another fanbase don't like that thing, that's cool because guess what, the next thing you make can appeal to those people. Just make it one thing, and do one thing really good.

20 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Take 'em out of the main games and relegate them to a side series and use the side series for further development. Its best for the franchise, without question. And everyone wins. 

 I would still like to see characters in main series games playable, so speak for yourself. 

[hifihedgehog]

2 hours ago, SpongicX said:

I do like those concepts , but I’d rather have those characters playable. Heck, I think it would be neat to let the Sonic charcters wear the avatar gear. I’d rather customize the characters I root for, instead of being forced to make up a character I really don’t want to care about. It’s bad enough the others are neglected, now I have to make up a character to upstage them?

Maybe I am not following correctly, but are you referring to the concepts I presented in the image or Sonic Forces' concepts? If you mean the former, I agree precisely with that and that is what the concept image wishes to convey: configurable or customizable, playable characters from the franchise. Now, it does show those characters as being secondary, but there I would disagree with the image. All the characters should be given the option of being primary characters. For example, one possible tag team could be Tails being the primary character and Sonic being the sidekick or secondary character.

35 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I would still like to see characters in main series games playable, so speak for yourself. 

Ditto. I do not want the main series becoming like many of Mario and Link's outings in this regard, either. A primary strength of the Sonic franchise has been the rich diversity of the characters. The "friends are bad" argument has been a false flag and common misconception which many have canted for years and which may have partially brought our own plight upon ourselves. That is not the problem, at least not precisely; wildly different and sometimes poorly implemented alternative play styles with these other characters is the real problem. If Tails stages, Knuckles stages, etc. were also race-to-the-finish style gameplay and did not entail tedious mech operation or treasure hunting as a primary objective, I think we would have heard a lot less of this "friends are bad" discussion.

[SpongicX]

1 hour ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

True. Same with Shattered Crystals and Fire/Ice.

OP needs to mention the quality of said playable characters, not when.

The 3ds boom games were sidescollers with small replay value, not 3d roaming adventure games. Some of us miss playing pure 3d Sonic games that don’t shove side scrolling segments non stop. I personally think side scrollers feel too limited in movement and visuals. I miss 3d games where Sonic didn’t move so stiffly.

I thought the way Mario Odyssey did their 2d sections was handled well. There were only a few of them, and the transition for them was very stylish. Not to mention how it was easy to tell when those segments were coming, so it allowed you to feel more prepared for them. Plus, you only have to go through them once. If you ever want to revisit past levels, but want to get to an area that came after a side scrolling section, you can just warp to the checkpoint that exists on the other side of the 2d segments.  In 3d Sonic games since Unleashed, you’re always forced to go through those damn 2d sections. I always frowned whenever the 3d segments got interrupted with the sudden change of gameplay.

I wish 3d sonic games would go back to staying 3d, or do a better job at making games to satisfy the 2d and 3d fans seperately. Side scrolling fans got their wish with Mania, yet fans of the Adventure games get nothing... Lately, they’re treating the 3d fans like crap, modern Sonic and Avatar barely have 3d segments in Sonic Forces.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

14 minutes ago, SpongicX said:

The 3ds boom games were sidescollers with small replay value, not 3d roaming adventure games. Some of us miss playing pure 3d Sonic games that don’t shove side scrolling segments non stop. I personally think side scrollers feel too limited in movement and visuals. I miss 3d games where Sonic didn’t move so stiffly.

I thought the way Mario Odyssey did their 2d sections was handled well. There were only a few of them, and the transition for them was very stylish. Not to mention how it was easy to tell when those segments were coming, so it allowed you to feel more prepared for them. Plus, you only have to go through them once. If you ever want to revisit past levels, but want to get to an area that came after a side scrolling section, you can just warp to the checkpoint that exists on the other side of the 2d segments.  In 3d Sonic games since Unleashed, you’re always forced to go through those damn 2d sections. I always frowned whenever the 3d segments got interrupted with the sudden change of gameplay.

I wish 3d sonic games would go back to staying 3d, or do a better job at making games to satisfy the 2d and 3d fans seperately. Side scrolling fans got their wish with Mania, yet fans of the Adventure games get nothing... Lately, they’re treating the 3d fans like crap, modern Sonic and Avatar barely have 3d segments in Sonic Forces.

Unleashed was a different story though. The perspective of going 2D was a homage to the 2D games and a love letter to fans who loved the originals. Plus it was the first time implementing this to a 3D game.

Colors? No excuse. Generations? Redundant. Modern Sonic didn't need 2D. Lost World? Even more redundant.

Forces? The redundancy has gotten so far up into my mind that my will to live is fading..

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

55 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sonic will always receive mainstream backlash. You need, the rest of the fanbase needs, and sonic team themselves needs to come to this reality, there is no  " everyone is cool with sonic " timeline. Due to multiple failures and weird experimentation, this series will get poked fun at. That's it, that's the reality no amount of " appealing to the masses" as if sonic wasn't doing that before, is going to fix that. 

Do I think there should be spin off games staring different characters? Yes, but their exclusions from the main games, isn't, and didn't fix those games, what it comes down to is " is sega able to consinstantly put out good sonic games" and the answer is no

The most popular character that isn't sonic, is shadow , and his backstory is....complicated. And considering sonic teams love of making batshit stories or not explaining connectivity in any regard, or explaining in such a non way it somehow makes it more complicated than they previously stated/everyone thought, I don't think you are gonna get a simple canon ever.

So this issue with this is, there are different audiences that like different aesthetic. To play up with my previous point, some people don't just like modern sonic, they only classic sonic, some people are fond of adventure sonic, some people like things in combination. I think mania is the right way to go, fuck a universal aesthetic, just make a sonic game that's one thing, and then go all in on that one thing and polish it up. And if people from another fanbase don't like that thing, that's cool because guess what, the next thing you make can appeal to those people. Just make it one thing, and do one thing really good.

 I would still like to see characters in main series games playable, so speak for yourself. 

I'm sure you know what I'm about to say, but Sonic Mania did not receive mainstream backlash at over 86% positive ratings on metacritic, and several award nominations. A number does not have to be 100% to be indicative but its clear that it had very broad appeal. This is the same thing that happened in the classic era when Sonic's main games routinely scored 90% and above. This is the reality you speak of. At one point in history, Sonic was widely loved ( little to no mainstream backlash) and recently we saw a glimpse of what it was then. The experimentation that earned the series negative marks is when things like treasure hunting, mech shooting, fishing, and convoluted plots started becoming the norm.  I don't want to labor this point so I'll move on...

 

However I would like to stress (and please don't take this the wrong way because its not personal, we're just chatting): Who cares if YOU want Sonic's friends and their gameplay in the main games if they continue to drag the series down? Think about it. In several recent threads I've made a point about Sonic games sales declining over time, as well as their critical reception. You or I may love the games that have been put out in the franchise over the last 15 + years but if the general audience doesn't, and is even less interested than they were then...why should SEGA care if you think multiple playable characters should be in the games? If the goal is for Sonic to be a AAA franchise and sell millions of copies, with high marks in critical reception, then why would anyone care about elements that obstruct that goal? Historically speaking, Sonic's main 3D titles have never handled those elements well and always get bashed for it, which has affected the reputation of the franchise over time and is partially responsible for declining sales. "Sonic stupid friends", and all the rest of the memes that come with having to include Sonic's sixty friends and the stupid plots required to justify their inclusion in the story/narrative should be avoided at all costs until they can be done in a way that positively adds to the franchise's success in sales and critical reception.

This is why a side series is the best option. People like yourself who must have their playable Shadow or whoever, can get it while the main series games get the proper focus to be successful. And then "gotta have Silver" crowd can be pleased while still having the game be useful for further development of ideas. To me this is an obvious win win. That crowd can get what they want without turning off the general audience to Sonic and may even find new creative wrinkles for the formula.

This is all me talking though.

 

[Shadowlax]

7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I'm sure you know what I'm about to say, but Sonic Mania did not receive mainstream backlash at over 86% positive ratings on metacritic, and several award nominations. A number does not have to be 100% to be indicative but its clear that it had very broad appeal. This is the same thing that happened in the classic era when Sonic's main games routinely scored 90% and above. This is the reality you speak of. At one point in history, Sonic was widely loved ( little to no mainstream backlash) and recently we saw a glimpse of what it was then.

Give it a minute, folks will start shitting on it. 

7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

The experimentation that earned the series negative marks is when things like treasure hunting, mech shooting, fishing, and convoluted plots started becoming the norm.  I don't want to labor this point so I'll move on...

If they announced sonic adventure 3, like tomorrow people would loose their damn mind, people want different things out of the series. And just because you see it as negative marks doesn't mean that everyone else does really. The assumption that everyone is only the classic fan base denies  the fact that there have been massive success in each era, and children who grew up with them

7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

 

However I would like to stress (and please don't take this the wrong way because its not personal, we're just chatting): Who cares if YOU want Sonic's friends and their gameplay in the main games if they continue to drag the series down? 

I care, because I have no obligation to anyone in regards to my consumption of media besides myself. 

7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Think about it. In several recent threads I've made a point about Sonic games sales declining over time, as well as their critical reception. You or I may love the games that have been put out in the franchise over the last 15 + years but if the general audience doesn't, and is even less interested than they were then...why should SEGA care if you think multiple playable characters should be in the games? If the goal is for Sonic to be a AAA franchise and sell millions of copies, with high marks in critical reception, then why would anyone care about elements that obstruct that goal? Historically speaking, Sonic's main 3D titles have never handled those elements well and always get bashed for it, which has affected the reputation of the franchise over time and is partially responsible for declining sales. "Sonic stupid friends", and all the rest of the memes that come with having to include Sonic's sixty friends and the stupid plots required to justify their inclusion in the story/narrative should be avoided at all costs until they can be done in a way that positively adds to the franchise's success in sales and critical reception.

I think the general audience wants good sonic games, and sales have gone down even when there were less characters because people got tired of bad sonic games. You conveniently ignore that point though, that they did the exact thing that you said and it didn't help because bad sonic games are bad sonic games. 

7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

This is why a side series is the best option. People like yourself who must have their playable Shadow or whoever, can get it while the main series games get the proper focus to be successful. And then "gotta have Silver" crowd can be pleased while still having the game be useful for further development of ideas. To me this is an obvious win win. That crowd can get what they want without turning off the general audience to Sonic and may even find new creative wrinkles for the formula.

I mean like I want shadow to have his own franchise, but that's another discussion .You can't decide whats win win, some folks wanna play as silver in a mainline sonic game again, that's their prerogative. They don't have to give a shit about turning off the general audience, because sonic tried to appeal to those people. And guess what, turns out they only cared the quality part. Oh man, a general audience who looses their minds at the thought of sonic adventure 3 being a thing, doesn't care about friends being in or out of the game, they care about the game being bad? Oh man, wild stuff I know