Sonic Forces Reviews Thread

[PKGaming]

13 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Did they like Gens?

They haven't played on the show yet, but Arin's mentioned before that he didn't like it. 

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

They didn't play it, but Arin likes to talk about how all Sonic games are bad. I think in the 06 playthrough he still described Gens as badly designed.

What about it does he find designed badly, and what is he liking about this ones design? That really confuses me, unless he prefers boost corridors, linearity, and dash panels everywhere. 

[Meta77]

1 hour ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

I've been trying to say this since we've seen this game;

It is a title for the casual audience to simply enjoy. It's not for the hardcore fanbase this time around.

It tickles me and makes me happy just to see them enjoying themselves playing this. As most youtubers I have seen doing and on the mixer streams.

[PKGaming]

7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

What about it does he find designed badly, and what is he liking about this ones design? That really confuses me, unless he prefers boost corridors, linearity, and dash panels everywhere. 

That's exactly why it's bizarre to see him enjoying himself. Usually he jumps at the opportunity to shit on Sonic gameplay, and since he didn't like Gens or Colors, I figured this would be no different. I think the only other Sonic game he's ever "complimented" was Lost World as he said it was "not bad".

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

Regardless of "our" opinions as hardcore fans, sales will be the proper indicator as to whether or not Forces truly has "general audience" appeal. There may be dozens, hundreds..... even thousands of youtubers who have a good time with the game but if it does not translate to sales...then is a direct indication that it didn't not appeal to a wide enough audience. This is the time of year when videogame sales spike. We will know for sure. And to be honest, even though Forces isn't for me, I'm not rooting against it to perform well like many others are (again, without question they are justified in their feelings). If the game turns out to be popular with the larger general audience despite reviews, then I'd count that as a positive and say its something SEGA should take into account for the future (I already think the CaC is a good idea for the franchise, depending upon how its handled going forward.....not in the main games....). My same exact feeling for Mania.

In this regard, the early steam sales numbers for Forces have been weak. But it still has a chance to catch up during the holidays.

[Milo]

Forces isn't a game for the hardcore audience / the Sonic fanbase? Are we talking about the same damn game?

Forces was announced at an event based on this:

The first trailer for the game revealed this character as the first major character outside (modern) Sonic himself:

The first gameplay footage revealed was:

The second playstyle and second zone reveal was:

The E3 trailer had:

The boxart has:

The Custom Hero playstyle not only makes up just one-third of the entire game; it was revealed nearly a year after the game was announced. Prior t othe game's release, the amount of time we didn't know game had a Custom Hero character prior to release was longer than the amount of time we did know, for crying out loud.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

15 minutes ago, Yeow said:

Forces isn't a game for the hardcore audience / the Sonic fanbase? Are we talking about the same damn game?

Forces was announced at an event based on this:

The first trailer for the game revealed this character as the first major character outside (modern) Sonic himself:

The first gameplay footage revealed was:

The second playstyle and second zone reveal was:

The E3 trailer had:

The boxart has:

The Custom Hero playstyle not only makes up just one-third of the entire game; it was revealed nearly a year after the game was announced. Prior t othe game's release, the amount of time we didn't know game had a Custom Hero character prior to release was longer than the amount of time we did know, for crying out loud.

I don't know what to tell you. You've played it right? You've seen all of the game? 

I'll put it this way; Forces is a game catered to the casual audience with elements that fans will enjoy. Clear as day what this title entails. Personally I think it ended up being far too easy but I blame Kishimoto for typical design layout.

[PKGaming]

According to the Switch digital bestsellers list on the eShop (which I think is just for the week or something), Sonic Forces is at number 9. It's lower than Mania at number 7, and Mania released months ago. 

[Dr. Mechano]

9 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

I'll put it this way; Forces is a game catered to the casual audience with elements that fans will enjoy.

I feel like it's more something longtime fans will be really annoyed by. Every attempt to call back to Sonic's older adventures feels wrong. 

The classic gameplay is completely janked up and doesn't appear to even try to be an emulation of how the Genesis games actually played.

Chaos and Shadow are thrown in to pander to Adventure fans, but aren't fought and don't do much of actual importance (and in Chaos's case isn't even real).

Old characters are brought back, sure... as interchangeable radio chatter with hardly any characterization or contribution to the plot.

Sonic Forces tries to throw longtime fans some scraps to entice them into playing the game, but I don't think these gestures were terribly well-received by those fans overall. These elements feel cheap, hollow, and like a pale imitation of the things they're referencing - which many fans, including many fans right here in this community, have expressed vocal disappointment with.

[AdventChild]

21 minutes ago, PKGaming said:

According to the Switch digital bestsellers list on the eShop (which I think is just for the week or something), Sonic Forces is at number 9. It's lower than Mania at number 7, and Mania released months ago. 

Add on to that, it is #63 on Amazon's Top 100 Video Game Best Sellers, one spot behind Mario + Rabbids.

https://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-video-games/zgbs/videogames#4

Yeah, don't see this selling well at all at this point esp. with crap marketing. Maybe slightly higher when nearing Christmas, but even that's doubtful it'll scrape by the Top 50 by then.

[ShadowSJG]

So does forces mean boost is bad or sonic team just mucked it up

[Legendary Emerald]

11 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

So does forces mean boost is bad or sonic team just mucked it up

Boost was flawed and Sonic Team proved it to be a dead end with Forces.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

44 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

I don't know what to tell you. You've played it right? You've seen all of the game? 

I'll put it this way; Forces is a game catered to the casual audience with elements that fans will enjoy. Clear as day what this title entails. Personally I think it ended up being far too easy but I blame Kishimoto for typical design layout.

Iizuka and Sonic Team stated openly that they intended Forces to be a game for "everyone", so as far as that goes I agree with you.

....But I don't think they executed it well. For all the talk about casual appeal, the supposed 'Sonic fan' title Mania has unquestionably proven to be more appealing among casual fans by critic reviews, fan reviews, and sales. Its not even close, actually. Forces has a crowd on youtube and beyond saying "this ain't bad"...but by and large, its not selling like its supposed to. We'll need more data but early returns don't look good. For this reason, no one can reasonably claim it has "universal" or "casual" appeal. Because its much closer to being universally overlooked for better titles. 

 

...All I want is the 3D games to step up their game to Mania's level of gameplay quality and I will shut up about this forever.  

 

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

2 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Iizuka and Sonic Team stated openly that they intended Forces to be a game for "everyone", so as far as that goes I agree with you.

 

That is exactly what I meant. It means the same thing.

Quote

...All I want is the 3D games to step up their game to Mania's level of gameplay quality and I will shut up about this forever.  

Boy, I would love yet another Sonic game that reuses content released within the same year packaged as full quality content. Iizuka should have never suggested that idea yet it worked unsurprisingly...

There are still many who quietly sleep and will not awake them from their slumber. We need more good Sanic...

 

6 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

But I don't think they executed it well. For all the talk about casual appeal, the supposed 'Sonic fan' title Mania has unquestionably proven to be more appealing among casual fans by critic reviews, fan reviews, and sales.

I partially agree. Forces still has the rest of the week to show up.  Not looking that great though...

Mania got some popular talk but it hasn't hit half it's peak as the popularity of Sonic did years ago. On the right track and hopefully this will grow.

8 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Forces has a crowd on youtube and beyond saying "this ain't bad"

It has an overall average appeal. It hasn't failed so give it time.

[Tarnish]

28 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Iizuka and Sonic Team stated openly that they intended Forces to be a game for "everyone"

I always thought this was a stupid claim and aim to make, regarding anything, not just this game. Because as we all know: you can't please everyone. You can't do 2 contradicting things to please 2 different camps, at least not in all cases. Like you can't have a lighthearthed and serious story at the same time, it's either one or the other. You can have one with elements of the other included, but that's it. You can't please fans who wants more playable characters with different play styles and also those who only wants Sonic as the playable character with only 1 play style. You can mash elements together to TRY to please everyone, but people will then not enjoy all elements of the game.

Mania didn't try to please everyone, they clearly had the goal of "this is for people who want the classic gameplay again, screw boosting, screw linearity, screw automation".

[Penny]

I think what he means by "stepping up their game to Mania's level of gameplay quality" is that he wants a 3D Sonic made with love, care, and effort by a developer who understands Sonic gameplay philosophy at more than just a basic level.

 

Ideally, that's what I'd want as well. At the very least, a 3D Sonic that has good level design and gameplay that isn't automated to hell and back would be nice. Anything of Generations quality or higher please.

[Tornado]

3 hours ago, KHCast said:

What about it does he find designed badly, and what is he liking about this ones design? That really confuses me, unless he prefers boost corridors, linearity, and dash panels everywhere. 

It's Arin, so anything more than that might be a bit too complex.

[Razule]

35 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

I always thought this was a stupid claim and aim to make, regarding anything, not just this game. Because as we all know: you can't please everyone. You can't do 2 contradicting things to please 2 different camps, at least not in all cases. Like you can't have a lighthearthed and serious story at the same time, it's either one or the other. You can have one with elements of the other included, but that's it. You can't please fans who wants more playable characters with different play styles and also those who only wants Sonic as the playable character with only 1 play style. You can mash elements together to TRY to please everyone, but people will then not enjoy all elements of the game.

Mania didn't try to please everyone, they clearly had the goal of "this is for people who want the classic gameplay again, screw boosting, screw linearity, screw automation".

You gotta remember, it's never just about the fans. The fans are a bonus of course, they're guaranteed to buy the games mostly, but the people who don't eat, sleep, and breathe Sanic (i.e. the general audience) are most important. Like.. Star Wars movies. Or Mario. Even if you're not on teh forums debating Hayden Christensen's ghost, or Bowser Jr being Bowser's only child, you're gonna check them out anyway.

Mania did appeal to classic fans, yes, but they didn't just greenlight the game out of the kindness of their hearts, they did it because it was literally their most successful Sonic formula that got them a crapton of money. It's almost as if good games make good money. Odd.

By everyone, Iizuka means the general audience, but they're also trying to cover up some bases with Classic, the OC, the darker story..etc. Basically throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. 

[Penny]

I think Arin and Dan are more ironically enjoying it? Sounds like it from their tone. Like, they both sound like they're constantly just making fun of it.

[Meta77]

48 minutes ago, Penny said:

I think Arin and Dan are more ironically enjoying it? Sounds like it from their tone. Like, they both sound like they're constantly just making fun of it.

Besides them of course laughing at their derpy oc no idea what video you watched but having watched every sonic video they have made to date this one they are actually not bashing it they seem to literally be enjoying it. And most games from episode 1 if they hate it they will let you know like busby. Of course thats just me. If you think their voices are mocking it more power to you.

[Tarnish]

2 hours ago, Razule said:

By everyone, Iizuka means the general audience, but they're also trying to cover up some bases with Classic, the OC, the darker story..etc. Basically throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

That's my problem, I guess I didn't state it clear enough. By throwing everything into the mix to cover all their bases, IMO that's at the expense of the game, and the enjoyment actual fans of the franchise can get out of the game. This whole character creation thing for example, some might find it neat and appealing, I personally find it frankly disgusting. Mostly cosmetic crap that took resources away from something more meaningful..like bigger stages for example.

Once you admit you're merely ticking off boxes to get the game into the hands off most people, to me that just means you have no real creative vision, or you sacrificed that vision in favor of sales. (Tho to be honest, Sonic Teams' vision for the franchise seems shit without trying to pander to every group of fans, so there's that.)

Obviously I never for a second thought that SEGA allowed Mania to happen simply because they are such sweethearts, but still the end product never felt like it was just ticking off boxes to maximize sales, it felt like they had a vision with it and stuck to that, for better or worse (but mostly for the better).

[Mark1]

7 hours ago, Penny said:

I think what he means by "stepping up their game to Mania's level of gameplay quality" is that he wants a 3D Sonic made with love, care, and effort by a developer who understands Sonic gameplay philosophy at more than just a basic level.

 

Ideally, that's what I'd want as well. At the very least, a 3D Sonic that has good level design and gameplay that isn't automated to hell and back would be nice. Anything of Generations quality or higher please.

I agree with most of this, however while I admire and accept Generations as a good game, I don't want this as the minimum standard. 

Might be unrealistic to say this next part (however we did just get Mania when I didn't see it being possible to have a game as good as Sonic 3K ever again), but I'm not sure if I can ever settle with a 3D Sonic below any of 3D Mario's attempts.

The hedgehog should have the same standards, just like during the SNES and Mega Drive/Genesis era. Most of what I've seen these days feels like an insult to him.

Especially Forces. 

[SatAMhog]

So, I did end up getting both the PS4 and Switch versions.  Sorry if I'm late to the party on this one but I'll give my quick impressions.  

PS4-I actually immensely enjoyed it.  They were right about the "just like a movie" experience because this is a quick game at about 3 hours but it went by that fast for me.  The levels were short but actually a lot of fun...the Avatar got the best ones and the best soundtrack.  Death Egg Robot Phase 3 is now my favorite boss theme.  I think I understand what they were going for when they saw how much fun and energy was coming from Mania.   They tried to make it like Mania, but in 3D but it actually comes  across as more like SA2 on a grander scale.   It's not as good as SA2 mind you but the controls, gameplay, music, and story were fine.  I actually enjoyed the English voices this time around as I was going to play in Japanese first but decided to give it a shot in English first.  The only real con I have is that Classic Sonic felt a little off to me control wise but it was still solid...he just didn't feel as good as he did in Generations.  That's understandable since this was built on top on the Lost World engine.  He's fine overall but he's the weakest part of the game.  His soundtracks were uninspired which is a shame because everything else was REALLY good music wise.  Otherwise, I had fun.  7.5/10.  

Switch-Now, I don't know what the heck's wrong with playing on the Switch.  I know some people are saying to avoid it, but having played it myself in docked AND UNDOCKED modes, it plays just fine as is.  I didn't really notice a slowdown(I played Generations on the PS3 mind you, so that may why)so I can tell you that I did not experience any issues graphically or glitch wise.  I have yet to find any glitchs that are game breaking.  I had the same experience as PS4 so 7.5/10.

I had to laugh when I saw that Jim Sterling gave this a "it didn't annoy me, I had fun. C+".  He also enjoys FF IX(my fave FF).  I consider him a man of good taste in that regard.

I think that's 2 for 2 for this year(for me) and I've had a thoroughly good year for Sonic.  Now, one the other hand I understand the dissappointment some had for 4 years worth of game and only getting this as a result.   This game SCREAMS cut content and should've reflected 4 years worth of work.  The levels I believe could've been longer but I can also appreciate the "one and done" approach.  It keeps ya one your toes.   AT THE SAME TIME HOWEVER, the disappointment is justified and in a franchise that's lasted this long quality is to be expected.   My argument is that quality is still there(look at Mania and the comics for example)but did not entirely shine through on this one.  However, I am proud to call this my SA2-lite on the PS4 and Switch.   Have a good day everyone.    

[The Deleter]

So we're 3 days in... and the game only has 26 reviews on metacritic, across all platforms

In comparison, SLW has 64, Sonic Generations has 98 (edit: and Sonic Mania, a digital side-game, has around 108 under it's belt)

Combined with the near nonexistent advertising in anywhere that isn't Japan, uh... how many people are going to know about this game, exactly? And with how insignificant Sonic is to Japan in the first place, how are sales going to fare under these conditions???

[JaidynReiman]

3 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

So we're 3 days in... and the game only has 26 reviews on metacritic, across all platforms

In comparison, SLW has 64, and Sonic Generations has 98

Combined with the near nonexistent advertising in anywhere that isn't Japan, uh... how many people are going to know about this game, exactly? And with how insignificant Sonic is to Japan in the first place, how are sales going to fare under these conditions???

Not to mention its release date just over a week after Mario Odyssey not helping anything.