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Sonic Forces Reviews Thread

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50 minutes ago, SaberX said:

Gonna be honest with IGN. Not a complaining about the score, but I feel like the reviewer have like a lot of pity for Sonic Forces.

 

The reason is because of 2 things. First, he wasn't too harsh on its flaws. Second and mainly, the 06 brief mention. There was a Sonic cry baby fan on twitter demanding them to not use 06 or Odyssey as a comparison when making this review. Yeah, fans are getting this low over a review.

I know the demanding part is childish but I don’t see anything wrong with people wanting reviews of a game on its own merits.

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1 hour ago, SaberX said:

There was a Sonic cry baby fan on twitter demanding them to not use 06 or Odyssey as a comparison when making this review.

I don't see why reviewers shouldn't compare a game to other games that are within the same genre. Seems like a totally normal and logical comparison to make to me, it's not like you're comparing apples to oranges.

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Urgh. Not happy with that IGN review, with the amount of focus that'll likely be weighted on sites like these in evaluating its reception I really don't think 6.9 is warranted. Sonic 06 definitely  does not deserve its score of 4.8 if this is allowed a 6.9.

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Great review by Johnny as usual. I agree with everything in his review, especially the end about bringing in new developers (who are fans themselves) to freshen up the series. 

This game just being okay is not good enough. It really does look like Sonic Forces was made without any passion or love behind it. Auto pilot is a fitting description.

 If you compare it to games like Ratchet & Clank ‘16 or Super Mario Odyssey, it’s embarrassing. There’s so much more love and care put into those two games than Sonic Forces wishes it had. They tried, I can tell they did try, what with the more serious story and bringing back Boost and Classic Sonic gameplay, but it’s poorly executed and sooo lacklustre. 

It’s a shame, I was expecting so much more from Sonic after four years and I hope it doesn’t continue down this path of fairly soulless, average games. 

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2 hours ago, Gabz Girl said:

Great review by Johnny as usual. I agree with everything in his review, especially the end about bringing in new developers (who are fans themselves) to freshen up the series. 

This game just being okay is not good enough. It really does look like Sonic Forces was made without any passion or love behind it. Auto pilot is a fitting description.

 If you compare it to games like Ratchet & Clank ‘16 or Super Mario Odyssey, it’s embarrassing. There’s so much more love and care put into those two games than Sonic Forces wishes it had. They tried, I can tell they did try, what with the more serious story and bringing back Boost and Classic Sonic gameplay, but it’s poorly executed and sooo lacklustre. 

It’s a shame, I was expecting so much more from Sonic after four years and I hope it doesn’t continue down this path of fairly soulless, average games. 

Hm? I didn't watch the review at all but why would you suggest developers who are fans to freshen the staff? What Sonic Team needs is a good director(more experienced staff and/or more new staff members who are competent)

"Burnt out" is a statement I don't know if could be applied(since we don't know much of anything within Sonic Team). I can say however that they did have a lot more planned for the game.

I'd have to find that link again...

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13 hours ago, CottonCandy said:

Gotta agree with johnny at the end. It really does feel like Sonic Team is completely brunt out of making sonic games. Yeah, Forces isn't a terrible game but I fear that its sign that future sonic games will just be average at best, lacking creativity or anything memorable. They really need some new blood. Maybe a break from the series might help. 

I know it might be silly but I would love to see a adventure style game done in a similar way to how Sonic Mania was created.  Hey, it's old enough for a another revival. 

I disagree. I think Forces is going in a better path than Lost World was. Upon looking at the game more, it's actually not as boring as the previous 2 games. 

Forces needs to draw from some of itself but also the examples of Mania if they want to create a better 3D title. Yes, I think the game is now...Decently average but not entirely poor.

 

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I don't see the suggestion to go more "adventure like" being particularly helpful in Sega's likely situation, aside from ditching Classic and maybe Boost. The adventure games are somewhat ambitious in scope, and this game only managed to avoid becoming a glitchy 06 because its levels are so small, easy, linear, and risk-adverse, plus they re-used a ton of assets from other somewhat linear games. If you have low development time/resources you are better off not taking on something ambitious because it will be so woefully unfinished as to fall apart at the seams. I guess what I'm saying is that while Sega might be able to afford playing with slightly slower 3d platforming again, they probably can't afford to do something "epic" particularly well anytime soon.

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I don't see why we're burdened and NEED to give praise as well as criticism. Average means it's split, some people love it, some hate it. Telling someone how to give an opinion isn't gonna bode well. If I see little to praise, and I lay out clearly my issues, that's good enough. I don't need to go "level design is very linear, look at Mania and how it does it's design and implements creativity and blends the worlds into the design naturally. Classic sonic drops like a rock, I hope they go back to his Gens weight, or even Mania, where his jumps feel natural. BUT I love the classic aesthetics!" I don't owe them positivity if I'm not satisfied. Maybe I'll glossen over a few positives an give a little attention to them, but my main focus and criticism will be on the negatives.

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14 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I don't see why we're burdened and NEED to give praise as well as criticism. Average means it's split, some people love it, some hate it. Telling someone how to give an opinion isn't gonna bode well. If I see little to praise, and I lay out clearly my issues, that's good enough. I don't need to go "level design is very linear, look at Mania and how it does it's design and implements creativity and blends the worlds into the design naturally. Classic sonic drops like a rock, I hope they go back to his Gens weight, or even Mania, where his jumps feel natural. BUT I love the classic aesthetics!" I don't owe them positivity if I'm not satisfied. Maybe I'll glossen over a few positives an give a little attention to them, but my main focus and criticism will be on the negatives.

Well isn't it slightly hypocritical to be giving shit to people who like Forces and have been trying to defuse claims of criticism and then refuse to look at any positives? Like there's been plenty of people here who have been talking about people just not accepting criticisms of Forces and trying to desperately defend it. It's hypocritical to swing around the same way in terms of criticising the hell out of it but not bothering to look at positives.

If you're the person claiming to have an objective view of the game and want SEGA to do better, then you need to take an objective view of the game and discuss what's been done right and what's been done wrong. As much as I hate Rise of Lyric, I have to give it praise for the fact it's done personalities right and the banter between characters is actually pretty entertaining. That's taking an objective view of what's right and wrong with the game so hopefully SEGA realises that the good aspects should be retained while the bad shouldn't. 

It's fine if you dislike the game, it's fine to discuss it's negatives as well, but it isn't a case of "owing them positive comments" or "focus on this and that", it's a case of if you're really going to claim you want to fight a bad or average game, you can't just say what's wrong with it and tell them to throw out everything else. A game reviewer's literal job is to take a look at a game objectively and state what's been done right, and what's been done wrong. 

It's not a case of having to sugarcoat every single negative of the game, it's a case of you shouldn't just be focusing on the negatives, at least if you truly want improvement out of the series. That's apart of wanting a game to improve, stating what's been done well and what hasn't. Simply saying "the story is bad, classic controls like shit, level design is shit" isn't going to do much because all that's indicating to SEGA/Sonic Team is throw out absolutely everything, start from scratch, and hope and pray for the best. 

If you want to discuss your own opinion of the game, then yes, laying out your criticisms is more than enough. I'm not stating the criticisms aren't needed for improvement because obviously they are, but if you really want the series to rise above what went wrong, then you have to be wiling to state what worked and what didn't. That's the reason we ended up with something like Generations after all, because SEGA heard the positive feedback of the boost formula while heard that the werehog, or any gimmicks for that matter shouldn't be retained.

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5 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Well isn't it slightly hypocritical to be giving shit to people who like Forces and have been trying to defuse claims of criticism and then refuse to look at any positives? Like there's been plenty of people here who have been talking about people just not accepting criticisms of Forces and trying to desperately defend it. It's hypocritical to swing around the same way in terms of criticising the hell out of it but not bothering to look at positives.

If you're the person claiming to have an objective view of the game and want SEGA to do better, then you need to take an objective view of the game and discuss what's been done right and what's been done wrong. As much as I hate Rise of Lyric, I have to give it praise for the fact it's done personalities right and the banter between characters is actually pretty entertaining. That's taking an objective view of what's right and wrong with the game so hopefully SEGA realises that the good aspects should be retained while the bad shouldn't. 

It's fine if you dislike the game, it's fine to discuss it's negatives as well, but it isn't a case of "owing them positive comments" or "focus on this and that", it's a case of if you're really going to claim you want to fight a bad or average game, you can't just say what's wrong with it and tell them to throw out everything else. A game reviewer's literal job is to take a look at a game objectively and state what's been done right, and what's been done wrong. 

It's not a case of having to sugarcoat every single negative of the game, it's a case of you shouldn't just be focusing on the negatives, at least if you truly want improvement out of the series. That's apart of wanting a game to improve, stating what's been done well and what hasn't. Simply saying "the story is bad, classic controls like shit, level design is shit" isn't going to do much because all that's indicating to SEGA/Sonic Team is throw out absolutely everything, start from scratch, and hope and pray for the best. 

If you want to discuss your own opinion of the game, then yes, laying out your criticisms is more than enough. I'm not stating the criticisms aren't needed for improvement because obviously they are, but if you really want the series to rise above what went wrong, then you have to be wiling to state what worked and what didn't. That's the reason we ended up with something like Generations after all, because SEGA heard the positive feedback of the boost formula while heard that the werehog, or any gimmicks for that matter shouldn't be retained.

You're grasping at straws to be completely honest.

Most people here who have criticised the game have always admitted when something about it was positive.

Most liked the Avatar songs. Some liked Fist Bump. Some liked Infinite's theme. And so on, you're trying to make it all black and white to make your point worth something, but, as I said, you're grasping at straws.

If there's so little to praise about this game  (a couple of songs), then we're obviously going to focus on the negatives, 'cause there is only so many discussions you can have on "Hey that track is nice."

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I did say mentioning positives was something to do yes, but I'm under no obligation if I wanna see change, to give equal attention to each side. Especially if I simply don't find much to write home about. The customization is nice and the music is okay. That's pretty much it for me. There's no clear gameplay hook for me that makes me wanna give it a positive  like Unleashed did. There isn't much I wanna see from Forces carried over.

People gave 06 shit and nothing but shit. Sega didn't change course because someone went "the games shit, but the Mach speed sections are fun". 

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4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

People gave 06 shit and nothing but shit. Sega didn't change course because someone went "the games shit, but the Mach speed sections are fun". 

Let's be quite honest though, 06 didn't nearly have as many redeeming qualities to begin with, so it's no surprise there was the overwhelming bout of nothing but bad to say about it, expect for some small givings.

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2 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

Let's be quite honest though, 06 didn't nearly have as many redeeming qualities to begin with, so it's no surprise there was the overwhelming bout of nothing but bad to say about it, expect for some small givings.

Forces missed the point under every department.

As I predicted, the story is not as good as they made it out to be, and most of the cutscenes involve the characters just standing around cracking lame jokes or just being annoying. Most of the dialogues happen on the world map, and the cutscene animations are bad, stiff and lazy (which I already pointed out when we got that first cutscene set in Park Avenue where Sonic gest beaten by Infinite.)

The gameplay is as bad as a boost game can be, a new low for the modern games.

The presentations varies greatly from stage to stage, the soundtrack is hit and miss.

 

I am not seeing any positives here, nothing that's worth praising. Just as I don't see anything that's worth praising in 06 except maybe Kingdom Valley act 1.

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15 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

You're grasping at straws to be completely honest.

Most people here who have criticised the game have always admitted when something about it was positive.

Most liked the Avatar songs. Some liked Fist Bump. Some liked Infinite's theme. And so on, you're trying to make it all black and white to make your point worth something, but, as I said, you're grasping at straws.

If there's so little to praise about this game  (a couple of songs), then we're obviously going to focus on the negatives, 'cause there is only so many discussions you can have on "Hey that track is nice."

Except the point raised above is literally "I don't have to talk about positives to lay out my negatives". The above is a response to that, it is hypocritical to state that people are avoiding criticisms while also stating that I shouldn't have to say anything positive. I never said the majority here was doing that, all I said is a lot of people here stated the criticisms point earlier in this topic in regards to people disregarding Polygon's review. That isn't stating everyone did that, more rather people should be keeping that balanced mindset in mind if they're going to tell people to accept criticisms. 

And you're really not giving a lot of credit to Forces if you're really going to claim the only actual positives to get out of the game is "oh well that track is nice, or good or whatever". It goes a lot more deeper than just looking at a few tracks. Positives for a game can literally run as deep as looking at core elements and concepts that's gone into the game, ideas that were actually pretty good and maybe failed in it's execution, and more. It's easy to say "Well Infinite's just a shitty edgelord, what a shit character" and it's more difficult to actually look into the ideas given to you through the game and it's content and see what could've worked and what doesn't work. 

Tails is a prime example because of this game. Tails doesn't work in this game because while the core idea of him having to go solo and find Sonic without the help of the resistance and basically getting hit extremely hard by what actively is the supposed death of his best friend who he's been with for the majority of his life, but the game ends up flanderising him and robbing him of his agency to give Classic a purpose. The idea of Tails working solo is a good idea and concept, and having to deal with the grief of his best friend possibly dying adds an arc to his character. But making him useless, and forcing him to just act as mission control for Classic who likely was shoved in for no reason means the execution of said arc and idea was bad.

As a Tails fan myself, I know if that had been given focus and Tails had been given his usual personality back, I probably would've ended up loving the plot point because it's an interesting idea for Tails that hasn't been given much focus and had potential to expand his character a bit more similar to SA1 when he fought Eggman solo. Now if I just said to SEGA, "Oh, Tails is fucked, please stop fucking him up", then I'm not really saying what I liked or disliked about him here and where the execution went wrong.

There's plenty of points that could be talked about the positive. The avatar system having been well done and how it could be expanded in a future title, the new elements added to Modern that could be expanded to later titles, even the music tracks with lyrics actually being pretty good etc.

Another point is as I said, the dialogue, which is far more than the standard affair of really bad lines and jokes. The majority of people I know on here who like Forces have said Sonic's dialogue, as well as the rest of the characters' personalities are pretty much on point and have been the best they've been since Unleashed. That's another positive point that could be discussed as well as the characters who haven't been done as well.

In terms of gameplay, Modern's new additions like air boost and such were actually pretty fun additions, and I know I've had fun figuring out certain points to use it to speed up my times through the levels. The level design itself shows ideas of what could've been good if the other aspects hadn't been messed up as much. I think as much as criticism is needed, it's important to know one's strengths as well to actually state what was done well and what wasn't. 

And frankly, I think you're the one grasping at straws if you truly think the only good aspects of the game was just "a few music tracks" and "decent customization". There were far more, let it be good concepts, ideas, or things that were actually done in the game.

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3 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Forces missed the point under every department.

As I predicted, the story is not as good as they made it out to be, and most of the cutscenes involve the characters just standing around cracking lame jokes or just being annoying. Most of the dialogues happen on the world map, and the cutscene animations are bad, stiff and lazy (which I already pointed out when we got that first cutscene set in Park Avenue where Sonic gest beaten by Infinite.)

The gameplay is as bad as a boost game can be, a new low for the modern games.

The presentations varies greatly from stage to stage, the soundtrack is hit and miss.

 

I am not seeing any positives here, nothing that's worth praising. Just as I don't see anything that's worth praising in 06 except maybe Kingdom Valley act 1.

Well, I haven't played the game yet so I don't know what to tell ya, but I've seen just as many positive impressions as they're been negative, so I can get the inkling a lot of this is a matter of personal perspective. I'll just have to wait and see till I get to it.

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7 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

most of the cutscenes involve the characters just standing around cracking lame jokes or just being annoying.

Ah, so you're basically talking about Colors, Generations, & Lost World's stories then.

Cause clearly Forces doesn't do that, at all, and when they do make jokes, they actually deliver instead of pointing it out in your face.

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1 minute ago, Sonikko said:

Forces missed the point under every department.

As I predicted, the story is not as good as they made it out to be, and most of the cutscenes involve the characters just standing around cracking lame jokes.

The gameplay is as bad as a boost game can be, a new low for the modern games.

The presentations varies greatly from stage to stage, the soundtrack is hit and miss.

 

I am not seeing any positives here, nothing that's worth praising. Just as I don't see anything that's worth praising in 06 except maybe Kingdom Valley act 1.

Maybe you could add that the graphical quality has actually been an improvement as with the presentation?

There are positives to be had(more than the ones you imply) but I agree the negatives of the game outweigh it. 

Quote

The gameplay is as bad as a boost game can be, a new low for the modern games.

Absolutely not lol. Colors exist as does Lost World(which does use a more broken form of boost with spin dash).

The game might have basic level design but it actually has divergence in paths(with a good portion of them being 3D) and doesn't rely on 2D as much as the other games did.

 

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