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Sonic Forces Reviews Thread

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25 minutes ago, SaberX said:

???

So now I'm criticizing your feelings? Aren't you taking this personally?

No...how I feel about the subject... are you being intentionally obtuse?

25 minutes ago, SaberX said:

Also, I'm still waiting the post where I said to you to stop watching videos.

I copied it, should I do it again. 

 

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2 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Just saw Yahtzee's review. It was fairly funny to me. Not like lol funny but a decent 5 mins of "comedy".

I don't think you're supposed to take it seriously. You just walk away with the same ideas you probably already had and maybe you've gotten a laugh out of it.

Nah, really many from the start for good reason, find it to not even be good humor.  And many also find it mean-spirited humor with no rhyme or reason. And there are times when it can start going out of bounds like with....... certain other internet celebrities. Ahem.

So, there's not much point making a big deal out of people critiquing a critic and a spotty review.

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1 hour ago, JovahexeonXMAS Tron Bonne said:

So, there's not much point making a big deal out of people critiquing a critic and a spotty review.

The fact that you're telling this to someone who didn't even comment on the people who had an issue with Yahtzee's review should probably tell you that you're making a bigger deal out of this whole scenario than there needs to be.

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21 minutes ago, Clewis said:

The fact that you're telling this to someone who didn't even comment on the people who had an issue with Yahtzee's review should probably tell you that you're making a bigger deal out of this whole scenario than there needs to be.

 Except I wasn't even saying that part to him in particular.  

Though I can understand your misunderstanding made due to the syntax and paragraph arrangement (pre- edited,  it's fixed now) I used there admittedly. 

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3 minutes ago, JovahexeonXMAS Tron Bonne said:

 Except I wasn't even saying that part to him in particular.  

Though I can understand the misunderstanding made due to the syntax I used there admittedly. 

If you weren't telling it to him in particular, then I don't understand why you would even bother bringing it back up in the first place. It doesn't really contribute to the first part of your post, so it just comes across as a confusing, needless addition.

But whatever. Now I'm making this into a bigger deal than it needs to be. Whoops. :upside_down:

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11 minutes ago, Clewis said:

If you weren't telling it to him in particular, then I don't understand why you would even bother bringing it back up in the first place. It doesn't really contribute to the first part of your post, so it just comes across as a confusing, needless addition.

Well if you must know,  the first half is a cordial explanation as to why many have issues with it. The second half was to a broader audience. 

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2 hours ago, SaberX said:

Yeah its what I have been saying. No need to make a drama or get triggered over this.

I suppose people just have different criteria for what they consider 'making drama' or 'getting triggered'. When I posted my initial thoughts on his review, I just saw it as voicing my opinion about something that I disliked and found ridiculous - I didn't see it as making any sort of big deal about anything, or as overreacting. I can't speak for anyone else's reactions, of course, just my own.

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So basically what you guys are saying is, it's ok to be mean spirited, misrepresent stuff, insult people and make videos that have no proper reasoning and just resort to cheap shots and just overall toxic cynicism as long as you do it with the "Oh It's just a joke guys, don't take it seriously" excuse. Basically an excuse to be an asshole.

Do you guys think this forum would be a pleasant place if that was allowed in here?

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Isn't that the point of the vast majority of reviews in general out there anyway, or products like Conker's Bad Fur Day (a game that contains elements like assholish behavior, rape, child abuse and mindless violence) though? Yet since they are against shitty products like movies or videogames, or they're funny enough those are ok, and they start feeling wrong towards one only when they start pushing against said one's comfort zone. Double standards dictated by morality and ethicality, wich i think is the situation that's happening here on all sides (Yahtzee's included).

Essentially, everyone is not focusing on the real problem, aka how the joke is constructed: the problem is not its existance per say, but how it's made, the punchline, the segway, all that jazz. South Park is still proving to this day you can do jewish jokes being funny and without being a nazi just with the proper context. Yahtzee simply built its pedo joke badly, didn't managed to hit the mark with this one and done goofed big time. Dismissing the entire review because of it thought seems superficial, and honestly, a lot of the things he mentioned seem to fit with what people who didn't liked Forces have said in criticizing it.

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27 minutes ago, pppp said:

So basically what you guys are saying is, it's ok to be mean spirited, misrepresent stuff, insult people and make videos that have no proper reasoning and just resort to cheap shots and just overall toxic cynicism as long as you do it with the "Oh It's just a joke guys, don't take it seriously" excuse. Basically an excuse to be an asshole.

Do you guys think this forum would be a pleasant place if that was allowed in here?

You don't like Yahtzee. Fine, whatever. There's certainly a place for what you call 'mean spirited, insulting and misrepresentative' humour. A community such as this which fosters meaningful discussion and civility isn't the place for people to behave like that. But a show with an audience who want to laugh controversial humour is fine.

What does it really have to do with Forces reviews at this point? There is actual content related to the game in this review. Talk about that, or just set entire thing aside if you can't filter out the humour you dislike. 

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Hmm, I really shouldn't throw more gasoline into this fire...

Personally I'm fan of Yahtzee. I like his humor and he often has a good points. The fact he apparently doesn't like any Sonic game (even Generations and Mania and classic) makes me a bit sad, but that's his opinion I can live with it.

But I must admit his opinion about Sonic fandom makes me uneasy. He used that joke so often and without anything else to make it funny, especially in Forces review...  IDK, maybe fans of Call of Duty are as offended as I am. I never felt he went to far with them, so maybe it's all about perspective...

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That was my first time watching a Yahtzee review, and to me it just looked like "sh*t that everyone's already been saying wrapped in tired, boring shock/gross-out humor". ...Well, the video didn't drone on for too long, I'll give him that.

Anyway, one thing I think Forces *nailed* was not necessarily making the story darker than recent games, but blatantly catering to the otaku crowd. Apparently that's helped it appeal to Japanese audiences, and while it's slightly different than what they were going for in the Adventure-era games (mild homages to JoJo and Please Save My Earth aside), it appeals fans of those older games while also appealing to those of us in western audiences who watch anime and/or realized things like Super Sonic = Super Saiyan ages ago. It's just far more interesting than the Saturday morning cartoon stuff of Colors and Lost World.

Lately I've been thinking about what the Classic Series can pull from that, and if there could be away to add more of a anime-ness to it to appeal to people who want something a little more modern, without sacrificing the essence of Classic Sonic that Mania tapped into so well.

 

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21 minutes ago, LividOrca said:

Lately I've been thinking about what the Classic Series can pull from that, and if there could be away to add more of a anime-ness to it to appeal to people who want something a little more modern, without sacrificing the essence of Classic Sonic that Mania tapped into so well.

 

Its called Sonic 3. Have a minimal story that actually makes sense w/out dialogue, and shows some progression to an epic conclusion. Throw in cheesy vocal music and animated shorts to taste, a la Sonic CD.

Difficult to do when you are presenting remixed levels in a shuffled order, I know.

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6 hours ago, Gabz Girl said:

Yahtzee is still around? Huh..

Anyway, ya’ll taking his review WAY too seriously, his reviews have always been like this even for games that he’s positive about! I don’t like his style of humour either, but that’s what it is. 

No one is taking it " way too seriously" people are criticizing it. 

That's ok, whats your problem with that?

 

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

A community such as this which fosters meaningful discussion and civility isn't the place for people to behave like that. But a show with an audience who want to laugh controversial humour is fine.

This is discussion about a thing relevant to sonic, thus people are talking about it. Whats your point?

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

What does it really have to do with Forces reviews at this point? There is actual content related to the game in this review. Talk about that, or just set entire thing aside if you can't filter out the humour you dislike. 

That's not how that works, its apart of the review people are allowed to criticize that. 

1 hour ago, Teoskaven said:

Dismissing the entire review because of it thought seems superficial, 

Not to me, if he's dismissed my opinions by assuming I'm a pedophile for liking what I like. Why should I for any reason look at his review beyond criticisms. 

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3 hours ago, rahkeesh said:

Its called Sonic 3. Have a minimal story that actually makes sense w/out dialogue, and shows some progression to an epic conclusion. Throw in cheesy vocal music and animated shorts to taste, a la Sonic CD.

Difficult to do when you are presenting remixed levels in a shuffled order, I know.

Right, Sonic 3. Thing is, while I love the way the story is told in that game, I'm not sure if it should be seen as the end-all-be-all of storytelling for Classic Sonic. Yeah, it was probably necessary for Mania to at least attempt a story like that, as a game that both refines and re-contextualizes the Classic Series, and a lot of people satisfied with Mania's story would rather a sequel improve graphics, add more playable characters and all that stuff. Personally, I'd most like to see the game design take another step forward, even if that means stepping away from a minimalist narrative. Freedom Planet's a pretty good example of how the Mania team could cater to players who want fleshed out cutscenes and those who don't.

Another thing I was getting at is the way the inevitable new characters could appeal to a broader demographic the way Infinite or the Werehog were intended to:

 

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Basically like this image that adds a modern coat of paint to Sonic and other classic characters to appeal to a more anime-attuned audience, but turned on its head.

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On 12/3/2017 at 12:04 PM, LividOrca said:

Right, Sonic 3. Thing is, while I love the way the story is told in that game, I'm not sure if it should be seen as the end-all-be-all of storytelling for Classic Sonic. Yeah, it was probably necessary for Mania to at least attempt a story like that, as a game that both refines and re-contextualizes the Classic Series, and a lot of people satisfied with Mania's story would rather a sequel improve graphics, add more playable characters and all that stuff. Personally, I'd most like to see the game design take another step forward, even if that means stepping away from a minimalist narrative. Freedom Planet's a pretty good example of how the Mania team could cater to players who want fleshed out cutscenes and those who don't.

Another thing I was getting at is the way the inevitable new characters could appeal to a broader demographic the way Infinite or the Werehog were intended to:

 

5a2456d1e7578_ExhibitB.thumb.png.9fa8b88476d0bcec186374ec94b6e505.png5a2456d5efca8_ExhibitC.thumb.png.e8729738477fe3c0ac6c692d90dbb663.png

Basically like this image that adds a modern coat of paint to Sonic and other classic characters to appeal to a more anime-attuned audience, but turned on its head.

Having characters with inspirations from the MCU would do wonders. Drax, Hela (Infinite already seems to take influence from her and/or Kylo Ren) Vulture, Phil Coulson, Iron Monger, Taserface, Quake, Hive, Ghost Rider, Aldrich Killian, Mantis, Man-Ape, and Winter Soldier all especially sound like good characters to take from. And, taking cues from Dragon Ball Super, Steven Universe, OK K.O.,  et ecetera also sounds like a good idea. 

 

And yes, Tsareena is a good idea, even as clothes for Honey.

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6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Hmm, I really shouldn't throw more gasoline into this fire...

Personally I'm fan of Yahtzee. I like his humor and he often has a good points. The fact he apparently doesn't like any Sonic game (even Generations and Mania and classic) makes me a bit sad, but that's his opinion I can live with it.

But I must admit his opinion about Sonic fandom makes me uneasy. He used that joke so often and without anything else to make it funny, especially in Forces review...  IDK, maybe fans of Call of Duty are as offended as I am. I never felt he went to far with them, so maybe it's all about perspective...

Yahtzee has already said in the past that some of his favorite games are Sonic 2 and 3, on the other hand his reviews have always had that kind of humor no matter what franchise is,  taking Yahtzee's comments on a personal level does not make much sense.

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32 minutes ago, Josh said:

Why would they need to stop characters from looking like Sonic characters and take artstyles and designs from other, completely different series


I really don't get you guys sometimes

Trust me, I know how you feel.

To clarify: The reception to Sonic Forces in Japan has got me thinking that maybe, perhaps, it would be a good idea to try incorporating, adding these archetypes and ideas into Classic Sonic, which is already good. If Taxman and the rest of the Mania team are behind it, I think they'd be able to pull it off without the game not feeling like Sonic. If they can get the audience in Japan and even in the west that is interested in that kind of thing to play Classic Sonic games without losing interest from the people who like Mania (and, again, if its the Mania team I trust that they could) I don't see how that can be anything other than a good thing.

EDIT: Honey's a good (although outdated now) example of what that might look like, despite the image in my last post.

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2 minutes ago, LividOrca said:

Trust me, I know how you feel.

To clarify: The reception to Sonic Forces in Japan has got me thinking that maybe, perhaps, it would be a good idea to try incorporating, adding these archetypes and ideas into Classic Sonic, which is already good. If Taxman and the rest of the Mania team are behind it, I think they'd be able to pull it off without the game not feeling like Sonic. If they audience in Japan and even in the west that is interested in that kind of thing to play Classic Sonic games without losing the interest from the people who like Mania (and, again, if its the Mania team I trust that they could) I don't see how that can be anything other than a good thing.

Infinite didn't actually bump Forces's sales up that much in japan and failed to resonate at all here aside from memes where people mocked him. It doesn't really seem smart or reasonable at all to add him to a game where he would fit even less and risk alienating the people who already like the Mania style games.

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21 minutes ago, Josh said:

Infinite didn't actually bump Forces's sales up that much in japan and failed to resonate at all here aside from memes where people mocked him. It doesn't really seem smart or reasonable at all to add him to a game where he would fit even less and risk alienating the people who already like the Mania style games.

I dunno. For every person that thinks Infinite is an insufferable edgelord (myself absolutely included, Forces sucks), I've seen just as many who genuinely think he's cool or at least think he looks cool. And he kinda is in concept, Sonic Team just botched the execution reeeal bad. There are plenty of other characters that can be made to appeal to that group, anyways.

...I think the larger discussion here might be 'is it okay for Classic Sonic to evolve?' to which I say yes, if handled with care (think Mario instead of Modern Sonic).

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1 minute ago, LividOrca said:

I dunno. For every person that thinks Infinite is an insufferable edgelord (myself absolutely included, Forces sucks), I've seen just as many who genuinely think he's cool or at least think he looks cool. And he kinda is in concept, Sonic Team just botched the execution reeeal bad. There are plenty of other characters that can be made to appeal to that group, anyways.

...I think the larger discussion here might be 'is it okay for Classic Sonic to evolve?' to which I say yes.

Of course it's okay for classic sonic to evolve. I don't see how adding archetypes and bloating only the story side of it while not considering the gameplay at all is "evolving" it though. You're not really considering why classic works, what people like about it, what makes it unique and how we can expand on those things.

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5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Of course it's okay for classic sonic to evolve. I don't see how adding archetypes and bloating only the story side of it while not considering the gameplay at all is "evolving" it though. You're not really considering why classic works, what people like about it, what makes it unique and how we can expand on those things.

Well yeah, appealing to the otaku crowd is just one aspect of Forces, I'm not saying that it's the only thing they can or should do to improve the classic formula. But I feel like maybe we're derailing things a bit too much at this point lol

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