Sonic Forces Reviews Thread

[Dr. Mechano]

I'm pretty critical of Iizuka as a designer and a businessman, myself. Shadow the Hedgehog (the character and the eponymous game) were his creations, and I feel that both were blights on the series.

That doesn't mean I have any personal distaste for the man himself, and neither should anyone else. Hating his decisions and his impact on the series is fine; I'm likely to agree with you on that. But hating him as a person and resorting to petty insults about him is unnecessary and goes beyond the pale. 

Insult his works, certainly. They're awful. But a man and his works are not the same thing.

[Badnik Mechanic]

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Everyone who thinks Polygon is wrong.

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Everyone who thinks is Polygon is right 

Not sure if this has been done yet but... How about we take a look at what they say instead of the score and see if anyone the previews said the same or similar things?

 

Because I've been skim reading it and example...

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Forces is, after all, an action game, which means that players expect to be presented with a challenge. And pose a challenge it does, but these tests of skill rarely create the sensation of having achieved any meaningful mastery. 

What is there? Constantly people have complained about the lack of thought a player has to do in the game. We have enemies which just stand there, the avatars attacks can be held infinitely. Level design has also had complaints of being too simple and easy.

Is there anything in this review which is wrong? So far to me it seems right on the money.

[In All The World]

Hooo, boy. The murder slew begins here, doesn't it?

 

Sonic Team needs a new staff so they can get this shit straight. They could have, COULD have, had it with Forces thanks to all the good ideas it had, but they fell face-flat on execution. I mean from herein I don't expect 5's, but I do expect 6's and 7's. I'm just hoping this game doesn't go TOO terribly, or else we could lose ourselves a Sonic. Unless, for some reason, you'd find joy in seeing Sonic finally meeting his downfall.

 

I ain't saying to abandon the Boost either. If they made the Boost a little more controllable and more like Sonic Rush's (but 3D), then they could have something going. 

 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, Super Mechanio said:

I'm pretty critical of Iizuka as a designer and a businessman, myself. Shadow the Hedgehog (the character and the eponymous game) were his creations, and I feel that both were blights on the series.

That doesn't mean I have any personal distaste for the man himself, and neither should anyone else. Hating his decisions and his impact on the series is fine; I'm likely to agree with you on that. But hating him as a person and resorting to petty insults about him is unnecessary and goes beyond the pale. 

Insult his works, certainly. They're awful. But a man and his works are not the same thing.

He eats shit from higher up. Most people do, the difference is that he takes more of it than he probably has to. I have nothing against the guy, but he and his superiors need to go. 

[Gabz Girl]

Polygon’s review was really good and fair, outlining the negatives and how they unfortunately overshadow the positives. I expect we’ll see more reviews like this in the coming days, but what I’m really curious about is SomecallmeJohnny’s review. Bet he’s gonna be harsh on this one since he didn’t like Sonic Lost World much either. 

Guys, it’s a good thing that Sonic Forces gets reviews like this because it will hopefully mean that Sonic Team pulls their heads out of their asses and does a major refresh/restructuring at their studio, start all over again with Sonic. A fresh new start for the franchise! 

We need better Sonic games! We need 3D Sonic games that can be as great as Sonic Mania! Something that can be like Generations, but even better! I hope we get that after Sonic Forces, especially after waiting four years for yet another lacklustre Sonic game.  

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

From Unleashed to this. It's like Sonic Team got drunk while developing Forces. It literally is.

I just wonder what is Sonic Team's next step. Because Forces is terrible. I thought the story will be fantastic and it'll be worth playing the game for, but no. It's just as low as Generations. Maybe even worse than Gens, because the times I had to facepalm my head. It's suppose to be a dark, grim storyline but we have Sonic joking about. Even when he has been tortured. How am I suppose to take any of this seriously?!

[RedFox99]

Just now, Gabz Girl said:

Guys, it’s a good thing that Sonic Forces gets reviews like this because it will hopefully mean that Sonic Team pulls their heads out of their asses and does a major refresh/restructuring at their studio, start all over again with Sonic.

I wonder if more reviews will go into depth anout the story and characterization.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

4 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

Polygon’s review was really good and fair, outlining the negatives and how they unfortunately overshadow the positives. I expect we’ll see more reviews like this in the coming days, but what I’m really curious about is SomecallmeJohnny’s review. Bet he’s gonna be harsh on this one since he didn’t like Sonic Lost World much either. 

Guys, it’s a good thing that Sonic Forces gets reviews like this because it will hopefully mean that Sonic Team pulls their heads out of their asses and does a major refresh/restructuring at their studio, start all over again with Sonic.

We need better Sonic games! We need 3D Sonic games that can be as great as Sonic Mania! Something that can be like Generations, but even better! I hope we get that after Sonic Forces, especially after waiting four years for yet another lacklustre Sonic game.  

Hey. Hey. Let's not shitpost, guys. C'mon! 

I'm glad you brought up SomeCallMeJohnny, because the more I think of his preferences and tastes, the more I envision a giant beautiful rant from the man. Johnny's a real treasure. 

[Gabz Girl]

8 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

From Unleashed to this. It's like Sonic Team got drunk while developing Forces. It literally is.

I just wonder what is Sonic Team's next step. Because Forces is terrible. I thought the story will be fantastic and it'll be worth playing the game for, but no. It's just as low as Generations. Maybe even worse than Gens, because the times I had to facepalm my head. It's suppose to be a dark, grim storyline but we have Sonic joking about. Even when he has been tortured. How am I suppose to take any of this seriously?!

I’m sorry to hear you don’t like the game much Ming Ming. =< I know you were pretty excited for it too...hopefully you’ll find other good things about it though like music and visuals. 

 

7 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

I wonder if more reviews will go into depth anout the story and characterization.

They probably won’t. I don’t think most critics care about the story in Sonic games anyway. Johnny on the other hand definitely will, he’s a big Sonic fan. 

Actually, Clement is another Youtuber who loves Sonic. He did that amazing 6 part critique on Sonic 06, so I’d be interested to hear his opinion on Sonic Forces as well. 

EDIT: Sorry if that sounded like a shit post. >.> I just think Sonic Team needs to get their shit together already. Six years since Sonic Generations and they have gone backwards rather than forwards with the franchise. 

[RedFox99]

Just now, Gabz Girl said:

They probably won’t. I don’t think most critics care about the story in Sonic games anyway. Johnny on the other hand definitely will, he’s a big Sonic fan. 

Wonder what he'll about the use of the extended cast...

[KHCast]

2 hours ago, Polkadi said:

Please wait until we get more reviews that say Sonic Forces is poor before stroking your confirmation bias. Otherwise, you look desperate.

Even on release day we're still playing "wait and see" 

though I'll commend famitsu's review for sure. Opinions clearly vary, though famitsu is known to be pretty positive aren't they for most games?

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

18 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I expect the only result of a negative consensus to be the higher ups mismanaging the team even more. I genuinely think the main reason for the huge step back from Generations can be put down to how they're scrambling to find people to work on these games. Like, putting three level designers total on 3(.5) gameplay styles? Unleashed had three on the daytime stages and three on the nighttime stages IIRC, which isn't much better but y'know...that's why they scaled it down to one gameplay style with Colours and then got more designers for Generations.

(And yeah, yeah, "four years." Not sure if I believe this game was actually in development for that long, to be honest. But it's also possible things just went really wrong for those four years, which I could see considering Boom happened in that time.)

Anyway, what I'm expecting is even more people getting fired and/or leaving. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the team aside from some key people got booted at this point since, as I see it, SEGA doesn't really care about 'em anyway. It's a shame because I think there's a lot of talent in there that's just being held back (and not just the art team and composers and such, though as always I appreciate their hard work too).

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I genuinely think the main reason for the huge step back from Generations can be put down to how they're scrambling to find people to work on these games. Like, putting three level designers total on 3(.5) gameplay styles? Unleashed had three on the daytime stages and three on the nighttime stages IIRC, which isn't much better but y'know...that's why they scaled it down to one gameplay style with Colours and then got more designers for Generations.

Generations still wasn't that large of a step up even with more level designers. If Hashimoto could direct a team(who were made up of fairly new people) of 3 level designers for each style, you'd think they'd make a substantial feat with Generations.

I think the main problem comes with direction. Sonic Forces could have done well even with 3 level designers, mostly because all styles share the same levels. Not saying that there should be only 3... 

[Celestia]

16 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

He eats shit from higher up. Most people do, the difference is that he takes more of it than he probably has to. I have nothing against the guy, but he and his superiors need to go. 

Okay, in retrospect I think I misread your posts. Sorry about that.

I don't think it's as simple as just getting rid of them all, tho' I understand the sentiment. As far as Iizuka goes I'd rather he stick around in some capacity (just with a smaller role)...buuut I guess it doesn't matter who's put on these games when there's clearly a lot of stupid shit going on with the higher ups. That's one thing I'll always be pessimistic about, and not just with SEGA.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

1 minute ago, Gabz Girl said:

I’m sorry to hear you don’t like the game much Ming Ming. =< I know you were pretty excited for it too...hopefully you’ll find other good things about it though like music and visuals. 

 

They probably won’t. I don’t think most critics care about the story in Sonic games anyway. Johnny on the other hand definitely will, he’s a big Sonic fan. 

Actually, Clement is another Youtuber who loves Sonic. He did that amazing 6 part critique on Sonic 06, so I’d be interested to hear his opinion on Sonic Forces as well. 

I think there might actually be a difference here, though. There's just no way that a main character cowering before the weakest enemies in the game can be seen as anything other than bizarre and/or disappointing. Even if you have no idea who this Tails kid is, it's clear that he's a complete wuss who never gets anything done, and that's unsatisfying on a universal level. 

[TCB]

Polygon getting them some nice publicity/clicks/traffic before the game officially releases regardless; smart

There's no embargo right? They actually brought a street-broken copy to review...other sites could have done the same thing Polygon did then, lol

 

[RedFox99]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

I think there might actually be a difference here, though. There's just no way that a main character cowering before the weakest enemies in the game can be seen as anything other than bizarre and/or disappointing. Even if you have no idea who this Tails kid is, it's clear that he's a complete wuss who never gets anything done, and that's unsatisfying on a universal level. 

Plus, wasn't the story was what got some people interested? 

[Balding Spider]

3 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

From Unleashed to this. It's like Sonic Team got drunk while developing Forces. It literally is.

I mean, that would explain why they thought it would be a good idea to give Kishimoto the directors chair again after shitting the bed with Lost world. and the newbie programers... I know that was a joke but you might be on to something.

12 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

I just wonder what is Sonic Team's next step. Because Forces is terrible. I thought the story will be fantastic and it'll be worth playing the game for, but no. It's just as low as Generations. Maybe even worse than Gens, because the times I had to facepalm my head. It's suppose to be a dark, grim storyline but we have Sonic joking about. Even when he has been tortured. How am I suppose to take any of this seriously?!

I'd argue that Forces story is much worse. In that everything we were shown in trailers amounted to nothing. While Generations was only really showing off the stages for both Sonics, Forces made it a point to show off Infinite, the threat of Eggmans forces, and his mysterious new partner infinite.

[Wraith]

I expect the more critical types of Sonic fans youtube to be hard on it but there will be another wave of Sonic fans who will wave away the flaws. Sonic channles on youtube isn't really that different from the community really. Feels like there are more and more of them popping up, and I'm wary of the ones who don't analyze things all that critically and how they gain their own followings. I guess it's not really that different from the mainstream gaming  press. 

People are going to like what they want, of course, but I'm hoping the voices that are pushing for better games get heard. I'd like to enjoy a great game like Sonic Mania with the community again except without a divisive one hanging over it and muddling up discussion.


 

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

3 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

He did that amazing 6 part critique on Sonic 06, so I’d be interested to hear his opinion on Sonic Forces as well. 

I can't remember what all the 6 part critique was about but he talk largely talked about the development yeah? Otherwise I found it overdone. 6 parts is too much.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

7 minutes ago, TCB said:

Polygon getting them free publicity/clicks before the game officially releases regardless; smart

There's no embargo right? They actually brought a street-broken copy to review...other sites could have done the same thing Polygon did then, lol

 

You know what? Good on them. As much as I dislike Polygon's sociopolitical grandstanding, they did the right thing by saying "fuck Sega" and posting a review because they technically could. In response to Sega saying "fuck our consumers." 

[The Tenth Doctor]

1 minute ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

I can't remember what all the 6 part critique was about but he talk largely talked about the development yeah? Otherwise I found it overdone. 6 parts is too much.

Clement's 06 video was mainly every little detail he hated about the game. It was hardly about development, he just hated every inch of it. Johnny's was way better, shorter, fairer and less hate filled.

[Gabz Girl]

23 minutes ago, Sonicfan7 said:

The behind-the-scenes and development of this game is truly fascinating. I would like to watch a documentary on it.

They had SIX YEARS to work on it. How did it go so wrong? 

‘Tis a bloody mystery. Something definitely went down between the release of Sonic Lost World and Sonic Forces. Sonic Adventure took four or five years to make and it was a very ambitious, if flawed, game at the time. Sonic Unleashed took two years and was again, very different and ambitious from previous 3D Sonic games.

Sonic Forces looks pretty much the same as a game that came out on last gen consoles back in 2011. Christ..

3 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Plus, wasn't the story was what got some people interested? 

It sure did for me! In fact I was hoping the story, at the very least, would draw me in and make me want to play through the game despite its lacking gameplay. It looked cool and intriguing. 

But welp, looks like I was wrong, gameplay wasn’t the only thing lacking in Sonic Forces.. =| 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, The Tenth Doctor said:

Clement's 06 video was mainly every little detail he hated about the game. It was hardly about development, he just hated every inch of it. Johnny's was way better, shorter, fairer and less hate filled.

Given the sheer abundance of Sonic 06 reviews online, I do think Clement's review has its place. I think he might as well redo it with less vitriol and better technical quality. 

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

Just now, The Tenth Doctor said:

Clement's 06 video was mainly every little detail he hated about the game. It was hardly about development, he just hated every inch of it. Johnny's was way better, shorter, fairer and less hate filled.

I remember why it was in general a mediocre fanboi reviews like most during that era of youtube. In fact I have yet to find an actually good Sonic 06 video, excluding Johnny's.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

39 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

If the reason you're rooting for bad reviews is this notion that Sonic team will take away anything from this that they can later spin into a good game, I wouldn't get your hopes up. For almost 20 years they've struggled to get Sonic working in 3D consistently, often learning nothing from their failures or taking the wrong message entirely. Even the 3D Sonic games generally considered good fail to make a splash in the genre large enough to set them apart from their contemporaries.

If at this point Sonic Team hasn't got it, they're never going to get it, short of a major shakeup in their management that results in a totally new approach and renewed passion for the franchise. They simply aren't competent developers and this is compounded by the fact that they lack any clear cohesive vision of what they want this property to be. I have doubts that bad reviews for a mediocre game is going to suddenly break tradition.

Sadly, this is my exact thinking. This is why I have not been totally on board the "Want Forces to Fail" train, even though fans are completely justified in projecting those feelings.

Personally, I've always cut the original Sonic Adventure a little slack because that game was Sonic Team's first serious 3D outing with Sonic....with 1996 technology and knowledge (3D was still new in general)....and though they were perhaps a little too ambitious, they showed a lot of heart and soul in thinking about how to transfer the Classic Sonic experience into the 3D plane and expand on it. For all the fanbase's internal fighting and the mainstream's criticisms with the quality of the 3D games, all the majority have ever really wanted for the franchise is to do actually nail the gameplay and move forward with bigger ideas. Sonic would not be having any problems with critics or sales if people were expecting games with Mania's quality out of the main entries in this franchise.

Unfortunately though, Forces is the opposite of all that in effort, quality, and ambition. And to top it off, I don't know how anyone could be confident that the right lesson will be learned here. There's little precedent to suggest so. I'm actually quite concerned about 3D Sonic at the moment.