So, the reason why Infinite became evil...

[BaronGrackle]

3 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Yes, that's why he fought Shadow.

But not the first time. The first time he fought Shadow because his evil boss Eggman ordered him to.

It's sort of like he was a minor villain before the Shadow fight, and then he became a supervillain afterward. That happens a lot in fiction.

[Almar]

3 hours ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

They made fake Chaos Emeralds with the same properties before, I think Eggman could do the same for the Phantom Ruby. It warped out of Classic's World into Eggman's base, he copied it. Seems an Eggy thing to do.

You would have a point if we weren't told Eggman did build the Phantom Ruby. Not dig up. Build. We aren't told otherwise in-game and there's just a comic of dubious canon saying he didn't.

[Splash the Otter]

2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

But not the first time. The first time he fought Shadow because his evil boss Eggman ordered him to.

It's sort of like he was a minor villain before the Shadow fight, and then he became a supervillain afterward. That happens a lot in fiction.

Yes, but the first thing he says to Shadow is "How could you...how could you do this to my henchmen...!"

 

[Tara]

7 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

I still believe Shadow killed the Jackal Squad. Why would Infinite try to avenge them otherwise? Is he just really protective of his teammates? I mean sure, that could work, but it also weakens his backstory somewhat.

 

6 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Yes, that's why he fought Shadow.

 

13 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Yes, but the first thing he says to Shadow is "How could you...how could you do this to my henchmen...!"

 

None of these things are true.

Jackal Squad is mentioned passingly, yes.  (And not with that quote, either)  But that is not the trigger that set anything off.

[Splash the Otter]

1 minute ago, Tara said:

(And not with that quote, either)

Japanese script

[Tara]

1 minute ago, Splash the Otter said:

Japanese script

Not that that actually changes anything in terms of Jackal's significance.

[Splash the Otter]

2 minutes ago, Tara said:

Not that that actually changes anything in terms of Jackal's significance.

What are you talking about? He was clearly pissed about losing his team. Even if it wasn't the primary reason he fought Shadow, it's still fair to assume it was a contributing factor.

[Razule]

13 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

What are you talking about? He was clearly pissed about losing his team. Even if it wasn't the primary reason he fought Shadow, it's still fair to assume it was a contributing factor.

Maybe for fighting Shadow initially, but he sure didn't care about him after his episode.

[Tara]

18 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

What are you talking about? He was clearly pissed about losing his team. Even if it wasn't the primary reason he fought Shadow, it's still fair to assume it was a contributing factor.

Because it doesn't change it as any more than a passing line.  It's still not a catalyst that kicked anything off.

[Splash the Otter]

6 minutes ago, Tara said:

Because it doesn't change it as any more than a passing line.  It's still not a catalyst that kicked anything off.

Okay, you know how Infinite is repeating "I am not weak" after his encounter with Shadow? The way I see it, he was berating himself for not being able to save or avenge his squad. I know that's just one interpretation, but I still think it's valid.

[Tara]

4 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Okay, you know how Infinite is repeating "I am not weak" after his encounter with Shadow? The way I see it, he was berating himself for not being able to save or avenge his squad. I know that's just one interpretation, but I still think it's valid.

Which would be fine if it were ever even slightly referenced again, but even Omega's dialogue hints at Shadow's comments being his motivating factor, and subsequent interactions with Infinite have him exclaiming only about how strong he is now thanks to the power of God and anime the Phantom Ruby.

[Splash the Otter]

12 minutes ago, Tara said:

Which would be fine if it were ever even slightly referenced again, but even Omega's dialogue hints at Shadow's comments being his motivating factor, and subsequent interactions with Infinite have him exclaiming only about how strong he is now thanks to the power of God and anime the Phantom Ruby.

As I said, it's open to interpretation.

[Nestor]

2 hours ago, Almar said:

You would have a point if we weren't told Eggman did build the Phantom Ruby. Not dig up. Build. We aren't told otherwise in-game and there's just a comic of dubious canon saying he didn't.

While it's admittedly confusingly presented and rather vague, I was under the impression that the Phantom Ruby that Eggman finds in the comic is supposed to be the one from Mania, arriving in that dimension ahead of Classic Sonic. Eggman then studies it and tries to create a weaponized, more usable version, first developing the prototypes and then finally the finished version that he incorporates into Infinite.

When Infinite is ultimately defeated, Eggman's research has by this point progressed sufficiently to allow him to incorporate what is presumably the original Phantom Ruby into his super Death Egg Robot. What happens to it after this point is anyone's guess though; Infinite (assuming his survival) would still possess his manufactured Phantom Ruby, albeit significantly depowered, while the original Ruby has presumably been destroyed/lost in Null Space.

While it isn't the most.... smoothly presented of plots, it does at least potentially explain why the Phantom Ruby in Mania acts slightly differently to the one in Forces; the Forces Ruby is a manufactured, weaponized version of the original.