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So, the reason why Infinite became evil...

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2 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

My concern is that it always seems that Shadow has some history/connection/ or knowledge of the villain in the plots. Remember Mephiles from 06? Edgy much?

That's not automatically a flaw. Mephiles was fun villain, very theatrical and kinda creepy. And as far as I understand word 'edgy', Meph really wasn't that (unless resembling Shadow automatically counts as edge-ness).

Besides, let's not exaggerate. Forces, 06, and Shadow the Game (obviously): yes. Heroes, Rise of Lyric, smaller games (rivals, chronicles, etc), No.

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5 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

That's not automatically a flaw. Mephiles was fun villain, very theatrical and kinda creepy. And as far as I understand word 'edgy', Meph really wasn't that (unless resembling Shadow automatically counts as edge-ness).

Besides, let's not exaggerate. Forces, 06, and Shadow the Game (obviously): yes. Heroes, Rise of Lyric, smaller games (rivals, chronicles, etc), No.

Mephiles, while not edgy, he was really out of place in a Sonic game.

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...Why?

Looks like he fits in Sonic world? Check, arguably more then Deadly Six.

Behaviors? He doesn't swear or talk politics. I don't think theatrical dialogue is a crime. In fact, he's got some of best dialogue of any Sonic villains.

Killing Sonic? He got better. Making audience gasp for 5 seconds is a good thing! (He's not at fault for the kiss part). Not that killing can't happen in Sonic games.

So I guess you're offended by his resemble to devil. Because when Power Puff Girls or Adventure Time have devil-esque character it's cute, but Sonic goes too far. Ghost n Goblins if you want to go with video game example. Or even Nintendo's Brain Training. https://mynintendonews.com/2013/04/07/devilish-brain-training-for-nintendo-3ds-postponed-until-september/

I know that Mephiles is plaid 'straight' while other are kinda funny, but what's the accusation. Putting something that looks like a devil or making serious villain? Or combining the two is somehow crossing the line?

 

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4 hours ago, Razule said:

Shadow doesn't work for Eggman.

I did not  say shadow did I said infinite  since they had a deal of some sort

 

opps I seen were I messed up xD I forgot to put that infinite worked for egg man as a henchmen

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5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

...Why?

Looks like he fits in Sonic world? Check, arguably more then Deadly Six.

Behaviors? He doesn't swear or talk politics. I don't think theatrical dialogue is a crime. In fact, he's got some of best dialogue of any Sonic villains.

Killing Sonic? He got better. Making audience gasp for 5 seconds is a good thing! (He's not at fault for the kiss part). Not that killing can't happen in Sonic games.

So I guess you're offended by his resemble to devil. Because when Power Puff Girls or Adventure Time have devil-esque character it's cute, but Sonic goes too far. Ghost n Goblins if you want to go with video game example. Or even Nintendo's Brain Training. https://mynintendonews.com/2013/04/07/devilish-brain-training-for-nintendo-3ds-postponed-until-september/

I know that Mephiles is plaid 'straight' while other are kinda funny, but what's the accusation. Putting something that looks like a devil or making serious villain? Or combining the two is somehow crossing the line?

 

The fact he was always so calm sounding is what I enjoyed

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6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

...Why?

Looks like he fits in Sonic world? Check, arguably more then Deadly Six.

Behaviors? He doesn't swear or talk politics. I don't think theatrical dialogue is a crime. In fact, he's got some of best dialogue of any Sonic villains.

Killing Sonic? He got better. Making audience gasp for 5 seconds is a good thing! (He's not at fault for the kiss part). Not that killing can't happen in Sonic games.

So I guess you're offended by his resemble to devil. Because when Power Puff Girls or Adventure Time have devil-esque character it's cute, but Sonic goes too far. Ghost n Goblins if you want to go with video game example. Or even Nintendo's Brain Training. https://mynintendonews.com/2013/04/07/devilish-brain-training-for-nintendo-3ds-postponed-until-september/

I know that Mephiles is plaid 'straight' while other are kinda funny, but what's the accusation. Putting something that looks like a devil or making serious villain? Or combining the two is somehow crossing the line?

 

Like you said. When those characters do a devil like being, it's played for laughs to balance out their serious nature. Mephiles is completley meant to be taken seriously, which I personally think is out of place in a Sonic game.  His whole concept sounds like something that would fit better in a Final Fantasy game. I'm not saying Sonic can't be serious(i.e Archie), but Mephiles is taking too far IMO

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24 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

Like you said. When those characters do a devil like being, it's played for laughs to balance out their serious nature. Mephiles is completley meant to be taken seriously, which I personally think is out of place in a Sonic game.  His whole concept sounds like something that would fit better in a Final Fantasy game. I'm not saying Sonic can't be serious(i.e Archie), but Mephiles is taking too far IMO

 

... spell it out for me, because I'm not sure what's your answer to my question: What is the accusation?

1 Being the devil
2 Being serious
3 Combination of the two

Not 1, you admitted being a devil isn't automatically a crime.

2? Metal Sonic, Chaos, Finitevus, Dark Enerjack, heck Shadow. Popular characters, serious in tone. Most of them killed bigger number then Mephiles.

So if 1 and 2 are okay, BUT combining the two is somehow too far?

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18 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

... spell it out for me, because I'm not sure what's your answer to my question: What is the accusation?

1 Being the devil
2 Being serious
3 Combination of the two

Not 1, you admitted being a devil isn't automatically a crime.

2? Metal Sonic, Chaos, Finitevus, Dark Enerjack, heck Shadow. Popular characters, serious in tone. Most of them killed bigger number then Mephiles.

So if 1 and 2 are okay, BUT combining the two is somehow too far?

Hmmmm, I guess you do have me beat there, but I just feel Mephiles is too out of place, dunno, just get that vibe.

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On 10.11.2017 at 9:12 AM, MetalSkulkBane said:

Looking at the game, Shadow DLC, comics and lyrics of his song, Infinite's character depend on one thing: did Shadow messed up his face or not. [...]

This is where it gets interesting. His mask covers his right eye and the cutscene from Episode Shadow pans away from his left side, also conveniently hiding it. Maybe he lost half of his eyesight?

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20 minutes ago, Patron said:

This is where it gets interesting. His mask covers his right eye and the cutscene from Episode Shadow pans away from his left side, also conveniently hiding it. Maybe he lost half of his eyesight?

Does it? It could be strictly cosmetic.

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7 hours ago, Patron said:

This is where it gets interesting. His mask covers his right eye and the cutscene from Episode Shadow pans away from his left side, also conveniently hiding it. Maybe he lost half of his eyesight?

Personally, I believe this was plan (at least at some point), the song makes it to clears, stuff "Just look at my face" and  "I was born in this pain" (of course there is always possibility singer didn't know details or was told to exaggerate).

The biggest problem is..well, Sonic World Psychics. We all know that Sonic & friends fought Eggman for years and none of them, not even Cream or Charmy, got really hurt. Meanwhile, Shadow kicks a guy, someone way below the 'threat' level and accidentally goes too far? (There is no way he would do that on purpose. He might be merciless, but never cruel).

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2 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Personally, I believe this was plan (at least at some point), the song makes it to clears, stuff "Just look at my face" and  "I was born in this pain" (of course there is always possibility singer didn't know details or was told to exaggerate).

The biggest problem is..well, Sonic World Psychics. We all know that Sonic & friends fought Eggman for years and none of them, not even Cream or Charmy, got really hurt. Meanwhile, Shadow kicks a guy, someone way below the 'threat' level and accidentally goes too far? (There is no way he would do that on purpose. He might be merciless, but never cruel).

Well.. he was implied to have murdered Infinite's team, so I assume the edge factor has been turned up in Forces.

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I’ll give it to this backstory. They managed to get other characters involved again - even if it wasn’t executed well.

Infinite’s fragile ego over a minor comment makes this seem laughable for a new villain who was meant to be taken seriously. Think they were aiming for something here - but it was poorly done.

Props to them for making Shadow more likeable again though - his character is the most tolerable I’ve seen since Sonic ‘06. 

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It really just needed more time to develop, probably.  If we picture proto-Infinite as deserving that title of the Ultimate Mercenary, if we think of him as a guy who's never lost, who has a whole squad of underlings and a privileged role in Eggman's service - and then someone comes out of nowhere and trashes them all and beats him to a pulp without even catching his breath?  If we'd had longer on the build-up, I could definitely see such a character as Infinite having some kind of breakdown in those circumstances.  The issue is that we get about five seconds of build-up.

Also, my interpretation of the question of Infinite's eye is that the comic probably does contradict the Episode Shadow cutscene; Ian Flynn or Adam Bryce Thomas must just not have had access to full information about what Infinite's design should look like at that stage.

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2 hours ago, Mark1 said:

I’ll give it to this backstory. They managed to get other characters involved again - even if it wasn’t executed well.

Infinite’s fragile ego over a minor comment makes this seem laughable for a new villain who was meant to be taken seriously. Think they were aiming for something here - but it was poorly done.

Props to them for making Shadow more likeable again though - his character is the most tolerable I’ve seen since Sonic ‘06. 

Shadow acted like more or less the same hes always been, ruthless and arrogant.

Wish he had More anti hero stuff to do

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Honestly, Infinite is kinda pathetic. I just see him as this big baby who threw a temper tantrum because some guy he just met called him weak. So he gets Eggman to upgrade him with new power and starts terrorizing innocents and destroying cities to make himself feel like a big man. It's kinda funny actually. 

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To be honest here guys, this whole story around Infinite just shows me that darker stories in a Sonic game really do not work. So far Unleashed (and to some extant SA) where the only stories that actually could tell a more mature story, with out loosing the light hearted flair of this series.

All the other stories try way to hard to be mature or just throw in some dark stuff that feels really out of place. I say it like this. If Sonic really, really wants to be hardcore, and dark and really mature for the more grown up kids, then go with it. Change the art style, the tone and the design of the game and characters so that it can fit this mature story of yours. Do not try to be edgy and dark, be edgy and dark.  

I mean sure, there are other stories out there that can be both, light hearted and really dark some times. Examples for such cartoons are Over the Graden Wall, The Animals of Farthing Wood or Alfred J. Kwak, who actually have some really dark moments in it. But they actually can balance it out and you see in all of this shows, that very early on, that this shows will go at some point into a darker direction.

Sonic really has no real direction when it comes to his stories and characters. Characters like Infinite, Shadow and many other characters really feel for me like a little child that really tries to act mature, dark and edgy but inside they are still just a little kid.

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4 hours ago, PKGaming said:

Honestly, Infinite is kinda pathetic. I just see him as this big baby who threw a temper tantrum because some guy he just met called him weak. So he gets Eggman to upgrade him with new power and starts terrorizing innocents and destroying cities to make himself feel like a big man. It's kinda funny actually. 

I wonder if the thing is that in Japanese culture this kind of evil backstory is impressive. 

3 hours ago, Swing said:

Characters like Infinite, Shadow and many other characters really feel for me like a little child that really tries to act mature, dark and edgy but inside they are still just a little kids.

So much truth here. 

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2 hours ago, Tarnish said:

HOLY CRAP, someone remembers that show! =D

That's because I'm from Europe. They still showed this cartoon on some channels many years after its cancelation.

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I dont think the issue is that the series tone cant be dark without feeling out of place the issue is the writing team and to some degree the tops at sonic team.  They dont seem to have the creativity to seemlesly integrate it, so we get these rushed try hard attempts shoe horned in. 

Look at series like pokemon they are clearly marketed for kids but there is some dark shit in those games but they dont usually sacrifice the integrity of the game to shove it in your face going "look look grown up stuff!" they know their fanbase.  Sonic team doesnt particularily seem interested in uniting their fanbase at least anymore

 I genuinely think they tried with Unleashed but the negative reception really halted their gears and made them seem sorta jaded like whats the point so now we get these half baked wiplash inducing tones in the games because its like throw dark stuff to those fans toss classic sonic in and utter a few kid jokes (true dat Tails? Really? >~>) and it feels disjointed and like there is not much effort

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On 11/16/2017 at 8:23 AM, Swing said:

To honest here guys, this whole story around Infinite just shows me that darker stories in a Sonic game really do not work. So far Unleashed (and to some extant SA) where the only stories that actually could tell a more mature story, with out loosing the light hearted flair of this series.

All the other stories try way to hard to be mature or just throw in some dark stuff that feels really out of place. I say it like this. If Sonic really, really wants to be hardcore, and dark and really mature for the more grown up kids, then go with it. Change the art style, the tone and the design of the game and characters so that it can fit this mature story of yours. Do not try to be edgy and dark, be edgy and dark.  

I mean sure, there are other stories out there that can be both, light hearted and really dark some times. Examples for such cartoons are Over the Graden Wall, The Animals of Farthing Wood or Alfred J. Kwak, who actually have some really dark moments in it. But they actually can balance it out and you see in all of this shows, that very early on, that this shows will go at some point into a darker direction.

Sonic really has no real direction when it comes to his stories and characters. Characters like Infinite, Shadow and many other characters really feel for me like a little child that really tries to act mature, dark and edgy but inside they are still just a little kid.

So two things, 

one I think you are confusing whether something can or can't do something with quality of writing. You say some extent SA but SA literally produced the most popular sonic character. So clearly it can do it, it has to do it in a way that's ... you know... enjoyable. 

Two I don't really think shadow acts like a child, well anymore than any other sonic character because technically they all kind of act like children ( because they are characters for children ) but outside of that I don't really see it. I also don't think shadow and infnite are compatible in that regard in terms of motivation or execution, but I would like to hear your explanation

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