So, the reason why Infinite became evil...

[Badnik Mechanic]

22 minutes ago, DamninalsBP said:

He killed Squad jackel.. obviously not on screen but they were and I quote once more "Destroyed" 

Destroyed does not mean murdered... or killed.

[DamninalsBP]

2 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Destroyed does not mean murdered... or killed.

Destory: to put a end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.

 

that is the LITTERAL DEFINITION 

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, DamninalsBP said:

Destory: to put a end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.

 

that is the LITTERAL DEFINITION 

Yeah I can use google search too.

It also suggests.

• end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it. <---- This one is specifically for inanimate objects... not characters not living beings so yeah well done on that one!
• ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
• defeat (someone) utterly.
• kill (a sick, savage, or unwanted animal) by humane means.

Out of all of those... only one even suggests killing and then it's a humane term to ending a creatures life that is sick or injured.

[DamninalsBP]

3 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Yeah I can use google search too.

It also suggests.

• end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it. <---- This one is specifically for inanimate objects... not characters not living beings so yeah well done on that one!
• ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
• defeat (someone) utterly.
• kill (a sick, savage, or unwanted animal) by humane means.

Out of all of those... only one even suggests killing and then it's a humane term to ending a creatures life that is sick or injured.

If you don't exist you are either not born/created or Dead.

As far as the evidence given to us from the comic books and Sonic forces with a possible exception to infinite ((if he is even still alive)) Squad jackel is 100% Dead and buried. the squad by Shadow because nothing implys otherwise and if infinite is actually dead then Eggman killed him as well.. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, DamninalsBP said:

If you don't exist you are either not born/created or Dead.

What does any of that have to do with what I said?

[DamninalsBP]

6 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

What does any of that have to do with what I said?

Because the first definition literally says "to end the existence of something" so technically there are 2 of those that suggest killing. Not 1.

[RedFox99]

What does the Japanese version say?

[Badnik Mechanic]

Just now, DamninalsBP said:

Because the first definition literally says "to end the existence of something" so technically there are 2 of those that suggest killing. Not 1.

Like I said in the reply which you seem to now be ignoring.

 

The source you even quoted states that particular definition of the word applies to inanimate objects.

e.g. "The room was destroyed" 

And once again... None of the definitions refer to the ending of life... except for Veterinary terms to end the life of a creature suffering from illness or pain.

[Diogenes]

32 minutes ago, DamninalsBP said:

Yeah but if they were only "defeated" then where are they now.. what's the point of introduceing the squad in the comics, referencing them IN Game and then having them never show up to help their leader in the game?

A lazy attempt at worldbuilding? Same as if they were killed, considering their existence doesn't do shit for the story.

e: even if you want to say it's about Infinite's motivation (which I still don't really agree with), that can still be the case even if they're only defeated. There's no reason to assume they were killed save for pushing the interpretation you want to be true.

[DamninalsBP]

27 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

A lazy attempt at worldbuilding? Same as if they were killed, considering their existence doesn't do shit for the story.

e: even if you want to say it's about Infinite's motivation (which I still don't really agree with), that can still be the case even if they're only defeated. There's no reason to assume they were killed save for pushing the interpretation you want to be true.

All I'm saying is that with the fact that Forces is a already a dark game in its own right, the fact that squad jackel has basically vanished after they were "Destroyed," and the fact that it IS IN SHADOW's CHARACTER to not hesitate in killing (hell that's the whole reason his solo game even exists). It's honestly pretty easy to say the squad was definitely killed by shadow unless proven otherwise.

[Badnik Mechanic]

37 minutes ago, DamninalsBP said:

 (hell that's the whole reason his solo game even exists). It's honestly pretty easy to say the squad was definitely killed by shadow unless proven otherwise.

Ok...

In Shadows game... only one path is the 'true' path... and that happens to be the path where you do not harm the humans.

Maria tells Shadow not to harm the humans... and he agrees.

Even if you do decide to attack the humans... they do not die. They are wounded and fall over... this is evidenced by the fact the aliens clearly die or explode... however the humans just kinda sit there and you can still make them grunt and moan if you attack them.

Finally... you not understanding the meaning of the word 'destroy' in this context is not proof he killed anyone in Sonic Forces.

[Splash the Otter]

17 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Ok...

In Shadows game... only one path is the 'true' path... and that happens to be the path where you do not harm the humans.

Maria tells Shadow not to harm the humans... and he agrees.

Even if you do decide to attack the humans... they do not die. They are wounded and fall over... this is evidenced by the fact the aliens clearly die or explode... however the humans just kinda sit there and you can still make them grunt and moan if you attack them.

Finally... you not understanding the meaning of the word 'destroy' in this context is not proof he killed anyone in Sonic Forces.

Did Maria say anything about jackals though?

Anyway, I can't help but feel like the only reason you guys don't want to believe Shadow killed the Jackal Squad is because you don't like Infinite and actually want his backstory to be "Shadow called me weak" so you can make fun of him. You are literally the worst kind of people.

[Badnik Mechanic]

4 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Anyway, I can't help but feel like the only reason you guys don't want to believe Shadow killed the Jackal Squad is because you don't like Infinite and actually want his backstory to be "Shadow called me weak" so you can make fun of him. You are literally the worst kind of people.

No the reason I don't want to believe Shadow killed anyone is because Shadow didn't kill anyone.

If I'm the worst kind of person for knowing what words mean in context then urm... I really don't know how to respond to this other than the grin in my avatar...

 

And there are plenty of other reasons for making fun of Infinite, such his list of super powers.

Which I agree needs updating since the game is now out.

 

[Splash the Otter]

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

No the reason I don't want to believe Shadow killed anyone is because Shadow didn't kill anyone.

He did though.

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

If I'm the worst kind of person for using my mind and reasoning.... LOL!

Don't laugh at me.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Splash the Otter said:

He did though.

Can you actually prove this... other than posting a definition of what destroyed means out of context?

Just show me a body.... or him actually killing someone in the game... just anything... it should be pretty easy to do, there's plenty of gameplay footage up, and the full comic is listed.

Quote

Don't laugh at me.

I know I changed it to something else, but believe me I'm still laughing.

[Tara]

20 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

You are literally the worst kind of people.

 

13 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

I know I changed it to something else, but believe me I'm still laughing.

 

You can both stand to argue without throwing jabs at each other.  Quit it.

[Splash the Otter]

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

Can you actually prove this... other than people don't understand what the word destroyed means in this context?

Well let's see...the Jackal Squad is never seen after Episode Shadow. Granted they weren't seen in Episode Shadow either (because they had already been killed at that point) but don't you think they would have shown up in the game if they were still alive?

And as for your point that Shadow didn't kill any humans in his game, some of the story paths end with him killing Eggman. Even if those paths aren't canon, they do imply that he isn't above killing people he sees as evil. Why would he spare the Jackal Squad?

5 minutes ago, Tara said:

You can both stand to argue without throwing jabs at each other.  Quit it.

Sorry, I got carried away.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Alright alright... on the subject of this whole 'destroy' fiasco...

Has anyone who is advocating that this means 'kills' actually looked into the context of when this word is used in terms of combat? Now if any military SSMB fellows know different please correct me...

Buuuuut, I was under the impression, that in terms of reference to conflict or combat, when the term 'destroy' or 'destroyed' is used it actually means the following.

"To completely to completely remove the enemies ability to fight back."

or...

"To defeat the enemy in a manner which means they are incapable to recover" 

It does however not mean "Go and kill everybody." 

Same if you are the one who was 'destroyed'. Saying "My Tank unit was destroyed" or "my squad was destroyed" Does not mean "They killed my tanks!/They killed my squad" It means 

"My squad was reduced to a level in which it cannot recover/fight back" then you can debate what it means by 'fight back' or 'recover'.  

But nobody has ever said this in a manner that means 'We is kill." People have certainly said 'they killed my men' or 'they killed my squad members' but normally if one's squad was reduced to a state in which they cannot possibly fight back they go for the word destroy.

 

Which again, doesn't prove that anyone is dead.

Quote

Well let's see...the Jackal Squad is never seen after Episode Shadow. Granted they weren't seen in Episode Shadow either (because they had already been killed at that point) but don't you think they would have shown up in the game if they were still alive?

So because they were in the comic, but not the game that means they're dead?

As opposed to them just... not being in the game?

 

[Tara]

3 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Well let's see...the Jackal Squad is never seen after Episode Shadow. Granted they weren't seen in Episode Shadow either (because they had already been killed at that point) but don't you think they would have shown up in the game if they were still alive?

This logic is extremely circular. Your proof that the Jackal Squad were killed by Shadow is that they didn't show up because Shadow had killed them.  That's literally begging the question.

3 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

But nobody has ever said this in a manner that means 'We is kill."

I'm not familiar with military semantics, but I actually do think that as it is used in Sonic games, "destroy" does essentially mean to "kill."  Though it wouldn't matter, because there's still no direct evidence to suggest that Shadow killed anyone regardless of its usage.  I certainly don't think Shadow is above killing, but this wouldn't be the definitive proof that it happened in Forces.

[Razule]

I think going to actual complex definitions is a bit much. It's not that deep. It means what it looks like it means, whatever that means to you.

"Destroy" as used in kid's media, is used as a euphemism for death, like "perish", "passed", "gone", "no more". Doesn't even have to be explosions, just death in general.

But on the other hand.. this is still a kid's game.. and Shadow is a hero... and it's a little unlikely they would have him murder fleshy beings imo, so it could also mean he destroyed them as a "team unit", i.e. the Squad is no more, but the members are alive but scattered and won't be seen as a threat again.

It's ambiguous, the answer is probably set in stone from SEGA's point of view, whatever that may be, dead or otherwise, but we can't really know for certain.

[BaronGrackle]

Does any of this compare to the casualty list Sonic caused in City Escape?

[Splash the Otter]

11 minutes ago, Tara said:

This logic is extremely circular. Your proof that the Jackal Squad were killed by Shadow is that they didn't show up because Shadow had killed them.  That's literally begging the question.

Why else wouldn't they appear in the main story? Infinite would still be their leader, so wouldn't they be providing assistance?

[Tara]

1 minute ago, Splash the Otter said:

Why else wouldn't they appear in the main story? Infinite would still be their leader, so wouldn't they be providing assistance?

The absence of a proper explanation is not proof for your own explanation.

[Badnik Mechanic]

4 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Why else wouldn't they appear in the main story? Infinite would still be their leader, so wouldn't they be providing assistance?

Because Sonic Team didn't create them?

Because the game came first and they were created after?

Because they had no use in the plot/story?

Because they were getting pizza?

Because they 'insert any possible reason here other than 'well they must be dead'.

 

Let's flip it. "How come Big the Cat isn't helping out Captain Knuckles... guess he's dead."

"Where's Cream? She's dead too".

[Diogenes]

19 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Well let's see...the Jackal Squad is never seen after Episode Shadow. Granted they weren't seen in Episode Shadow either (because they had already been killed at that point) but don't you think they would have shown up in the game if they were still alive?

Considering they're so irrelevant that they don't even get mentioned in the main story? No, not really. What would they even do if they were around? The game couldn't even give proper time to the villains it's already got.