So, the reason why Infinite became evil...

[Splash the Otter]

1 minute ago, Tara said:

The absence of a proper explanation is not proof for your own explanation.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

6 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Because Sonic Team didn't create them?

Because the game came first and they were created after?

Because they had no use in the plot/story?

Because they were getting pizza?

Because they 'insert any possible reason here other than 'well they must be dead'.

But Infinite's backstory makes a lot more sense if his squad is dead.

[Kuzu]

Just now, Splash the Otter said:

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

"It rains because God takes a piss"

It's correct because it's simple right?

Just now, Splash the Otter said:

But Infinite's backstory makes a lot more sense if his squad is dead.

It only makes sense to you because you're going through mental gymnastics trying to justify something that has so little evidence to begin with, under the logic of since it doesn't have much of an explanation, you  can make up your own and it's "correct"

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Splash the Otter said:

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

I'm not sure "a children's video game character killed them offscreen" is a simpler explanation than "they aren't relevant to the story."

[Tara]

6 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Which is a fallacy when used in this context.  Occam's razor is not a tool for providing answers, but for establishing a starting point and evaluating conflicting hypotheses.  You're also wrongfully assuming that your explanation is indeed the "simplest."  Logically, it is not, for you haven't demonstrated the existence of several variables needed to come to this conclusion.

6 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

But Infinite's backstory makes a lot more sense if his squad is dead.

Which, even if that were true, also does not make your hypothesis correct.

[Splash the Otter]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

"It rains because God takes a piss"

It's correct because it's simple right?

That isn't what I meant.

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It only makes sense to you because you're going through mental gymnastics trying to justify something that has so little evidence to begin with, under the logic of since it doesn't have much of an explanation, you  can make up your own and it's "correct"

I am NOT going through mental gymnastics!

Just now, Diogenes said:

I'm not sure "a children's video game character killed them offscreen" is a simpler explanation than "they aren't relevant to the story."

It's the simplest in-universe explanation.

[Badnik Mechanic]

19 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one

This is Occam's Razor isn't it? Alright... Aside from the fact modern scientists themselves don't actually agree with it.

Let's assume they actually do agree with it, and look at actually what Occam's Razor actually means... it's normally along the following lines...

 

For a hypothetical problem, the right answer should be the one which makes less assumptions.

 

It does not mean.... the simplest explanation is the right one which was popularised in the movie 'Contact', even thinkers which do agree with the theory also point out it's been distorted and many people quote it not knowing what it actually means. Even then, the definition of it can change depending on the field it's being used in. For instance, in Computer Science or Engineering, it would be used to effectively say 'don't over engineer a solution' or the cutting of excessive methodology to find a solution to a problem. 

 

E.g. I want to build a vehicle which can take me 5 miles under it's own power.

Occams Razor would be 'build a car' as oppose to 'build a rocket ship'.

 

So let's assume modern scientists to agree with it... and it actually means what the movie Contact popularised it means...

 

Surely therefore 'they're not in the game because they're dead, is immediately disqualified because it assumes that one word from one line of dialogue actually means 'my fiends are dead' and assumes that their deaths took place off pannel in another media... and assumes... the Comic was planned and made during/before the development of the game...

 

Whereas this...

Quote

Because Sonic Team didn't create them?

Assumes that they're not in the game because they made the game before the comic.

Occam's Razor everybody!

[Razule]

I mean, on the most surface level, "they're dead" is probably the most logical immediate conclusion upon hearing the characters say they were "destroyed". Like, if you were a kid or whatever playing the game, you'd probably think "oh.. they're dead". Doesn't require comics or anything to come to that conclusion. It's only when we also consider SEGA's past history and the fact that this is a kid's game do we think, "No, wait, there's no way they're dead".

[Tara]

The debate is more centered around rather or not his Shadow killing his squad is why Infinite became evil.  I did rewatch Episode Shadow just to refamiliarize myself, and I do admit there is room to believe Shadow killed Jackal Squad.  But if we're going by cause and effect, the game really doesn't highlight that as the reason Infinite became who he is.  It very much emphasized Shadow's petty comments as his motivation.  Neary a hint of remorse for his fallen crew for the entirety of the game.

[Razule]

26 minutes ago, Tara said:

The debate is more centered around rather or not his Shadow killing his squad is why Infinite became evil.  I did rewatch Episode Shadow just to refamiliarize myself, and I do admit there is room to believe Shadow killed Jackal Squad.  But if we're going by cause and effect, the game really doesn't highlight that as the reason Infinite became who he is.  It very much emphasized Shadow's petty comments as his motivation.  Neary a hint of remorse for his fallen crew for the entirety of the game.

Oh, then yeah, it's definitely mostly that. But, I suppose there are Infinite's lines about friendship that could imply.. something? "Friends are nothing but a fleeting illusion You can count on nobody but yourself." But that's probably just the usual "Friendship bad, evil good" stuff.

[Tara]

3 minutes ago, Razule said:

Oh, then yeah, it's definitely mostly that. But, I suppose there are Infinite's lines about friendship that could imply.. something? "Friends are nothing but a fleeting illusion You can count on nobody but yourself." But that's probably just the usual "Friendship bad, evil good" stuff.

Which lends even less credence to the idea that Infinite became evil for that reason.  Like, why would he even bother avenging them if that's how he felt?  Is there any indication that he didn't hold onto this sentiment prior to whatever happened to Jackal Squad?

[BaronGrackle]

And also, didn't Infinite (and the Jackal Squad) become evil BEFORE Shadow humiliated him? They were mercenaries who were going to steal from Eggman for profit, and then they started working for him instead. In fact, Eggman hired Infinite because they shared a Ruby vision of making the world desolate - so they decided to work together and make that apocalypse happen!

Shadow's actions did absolutely nothing to Infinite's moral compass. It just convinced him to upgrade.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I haven't watched the cutscene for a while, but personally, I assumed "destroyed" could be an overdramatic way of saying he destroyed the Squad as an entity (injured its members severely, preventing them from functioning in their role as a mercenary/attack squad anymore) rather than destroying (killing) each individual member. I could be wrong, of course. Having Shadow outright kill all of them just seems a bit over-the-top even by Shadow standards, and I feel like if they actually wanted that to be the case, they would've made it more of a plot point. But, again, we don't have a lot to go on, so I can see the argument that "destroy = kill" is the most straightforward meaning. I would rather not believe that because it's a bit disturbing to think of a character on the heroes' side killing these low-ranking characters with his bare hands, lol.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Let's start with facts.
1 Shadow never killed anyone (well, Biolizrd, Black Doom, some other ''monsters").
2 Shadow the Game paths are uncannon. Yeah, he killed Eggman. He also conquered a planet, the point?
3 At the end of a day, we simply have not enough evidence to prove what happened to Jackal Squad.

Opinion:
Personally, I could potentially see Shadow killing those guys... if he had a good reason. But I see two reasons why that's not the case:

1 He didn't kill Infinite. Why would he kill his team, but not their leader? Becuase he's 'pathetic'? That's a dumb excuse, Infinite couldn't be weaker than any of his people.

2 He never killed Eggman. "Grr, I'm going to murder you monsters for working for Eggman. Then I'm going to break his robot wiggle my finger at him and maybe throw him in jail. Maybe."
There are way too many games where Eggman and Shadow meet to assume Shadow wants to kill Eggman, just never had a chance. So the idea that he would use more severe punishment on his workers is just ridiculous.

[Splash the Otter]

I still believe Shadow killed the Jackal Squad. Why would Infinite try to avenge them otherwise? Is he just really protective of his teammates? I mean sure, that could work, but it also weakens his backstory somewhat.

[BaronGrackle]

6 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I still believe Shadow killed the Jackal Squad. Why would Infinite try to avenge them otherwise? Is he just really protective of his teammates? I mean sure, that could work, but it also weakens his backstory somewhat.

Did he actually try to avenge them?

[Splash the Otter]

11 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Did he actually try to avenge them?

Yes, that's why he fought Shadow.

[Razule]

7 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I would rather not believe that because it's a bit disturbing to think of a character on the heroes' side killing these low-ranking characters with his bare hands, lol.

Well, it's more likely he'd have done the deed with spines and legs actually, that's better right

[Nestor]

1 hour ago, Splash the Otter said:

I still believe Shadow killed the Jackal Squad. Why would Infinite try to avenge them otherwise? Is he just really protective of his teammates? I mean sure, that could work, but it also weakens his backstory somewhat.

I think it was less to avenge them personally, but more to assuage his own honor and ego - from everything we've seen of his backstory, Infinite seems to be a malignant narcissist, and his elite squad being nothing more than a speed bump to Shadow was a dent to his ego which he needed to rectify.

Based on the context of the games thus far and Shadow's personality, I'd also argue that Jackal Squad being 'destroyed' was not the individual members being killed (which would be extreme and out of character for current Shadow, particularly with him sparing Infinite) but the unit itself being wrecked, its members injured or rendered unconscious. It could also underscore the fact that Shadow may have defeated them incredibly easily, in the same way we might say that one sports team 'destroyed' another if they beat them by a huge margin.

[Salamander]

The line detailing the fate of the Jackal Squad is ambiguous.  There is no further evidence, and therefore no conclusions can be drawn.

There is no evidence that Jackal Squad are dead.

There is no evidence that Jackal Squad are alive.

[Nestor]

Just now, FFWF said:

The line detailing the fate of the Jackal Squad is ambiguous.  There is no further evidence, and therefore no conclusions can be drawn.

There is no evidence that Jackal Squad are dead.

There is no evidence that Jackal Squad are alive.

Schrödinger's Jackal Squad! ?

I'd possibly argue that from the context of the other games and Shadow's treatment of the defeated Infinite, more weight could be given to Jackal Squad being alive, but you're right - there's no conclusive evidence to say for certain.

[A person, that exists]

Infinite feels like a Tumblr user who constantly gets offended by anything.

Like, I can clearly see him writing 1000 page rants about how calling him "weak" is bad and that it's offensive.

Heck, can somebody draw a comic about this? 

[Almar]

Considering we never see any anthro troops in Eggman's territories besides Jackal/infinite (not even as mechanical slaves), I would figure the "Jackal Squad" would actually be robots Jackal had under his command courtesy of Eggman rather than other anthro mercs. So just robots.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

8 minutes ago, Almar said:

Considering we never see any anthro troops in Eggman's territories besides Jackal/infinite (not even as mechanical slaves), I would figure the "Jackal Squad" would actually be robots Jackal had under his command courtesy of Eggman rather than other anthro mercs. So just robots.

Did you read the prequel comic? They're anthro mercs.

[Almar]

Yeah well the comic also says Eggman found the Forces Phantom Ruby in his front yard instead of building it. The second being more in line with what happens in Forces (see the prototypes).

[The Tenth Doctor]

They made fake Chaos Emeralds with the same properties before, I think Eggman could do the same for the Phantom Ruby. It warped out of Classic's World into Eggman's base, he copied it. Seems an Eggy thing to do.