So..its no longer "classic" sonic. Smart??

[castell-neath]

So having played forces for an hour, the story in forces clearly states that "classic" sonic is from another dimenson.

While this shocked me somewhat - eradicating the idea of him being a classic / past version of sonic, I think its a very smart move.

(Although I read on here sega used to refer to him as Pixel Sonic during the 25th anniversary)

By doing this it solves the problem of continuity between the two series AND...more importantly allows the classic series to exist seperate to the modern series. This would allow future classic style games such as mania to be made without impacting on canon and allow any classic style games to invent new bosses / zones / enemies / friends etc.

Personally i think this is a great move....and i look forward to more classic 16 (32!!) bit games set in this demension.

Ps The in game joke between the sonics - I havent seen you in generations- was great!!

[Diogenes]

While I can see some appeal in having a separate "classic" continuity that I can follow and just try to ignore whatever dumb shit Sonic Team is up to with modern Sonic, I think it's ultimately a bad move. It's not actually fixing the series and bringing things together, it's just solidifying a divide and letting the bad parts of the series continue to rot.

[Salamander]

I fail to understand why a Classic series couldn't invent all manner of new friends, zones, and enemies which we can just pretend were conveniently off-screen for the Modern series - as indeed is already the case for a number of existing Classic characters, zones, and enemies.  I don't even understand why further new Classic-style games would need to be set before the Modern Sonic timeline at all.

The division is a fix for a problem which doesn't exist.

[Multikaris]

On 11/6/2017 at 12:41 PM, FFWF said:

I fail to understand why a Classic series couldn't invent all manner of new friends, zones, and enemies which we can just pretend were conveniently off-screen for the Modern series - as indeed is already the case for a number of existing Classic characters, zones, and enemies.  I don't even understand why further new Classic-style games would need to be set before the Modern Sonic timeline at all.

The division is a fix for a problem which doesn't exist.

Maybe it’ll cause another conflict, and without the alternate media to make amends and bridge the gap, the new classic characters will have to make standings amongst Adventure fans by looks alone (and with Colors era fans likely by pure chance!). And then the critics come in, and they either rag on them just the same as the modern characters or praise them hypocritically. It’ll be just like the Boom characters all over again. 

[___-_]

The more they follow through with this separation, the more it tells me it's just a cop out for not nailing 3D Sonic down. They're just throwing in the towel. 

I mean, just look at how Sonic Forces turned out. That game was not made for the sake of ironing out or even quietly side stepping away from the inconsistencies in lore (Hell, Modern Sonic apparently still shares the same back story, friends and enemies as classic, and Classic Sonic seems he'll continue to share the same damn new adventures with Modern Sonic each game he's shoehorned in regardless, so what's even the point?). It's most certainly not done to qualm fans of specific game styles, either. As for one, there's so many to begin with where those fans are left behind, and two, they can't even get the ones they chose to segregate right, anyway. 

Sonic Team just don't want to be assed to properly translate the series into 3D like originally intended. Who knows the real case as to why they just don't do that, but at the end of the day, with their separation plan now, we're still going to be left with games worrying about them ranging from poor - decent for both Modern and Classic's game type and story (and really, that goes for whatever new game type they drag along, too), as long as the current people at Sonic Team are behind things, not trying to understand Anything Sonic. Games in essence of Sonic Mania are not even a given as that was made by different teams altogether, and the way how Sega kinda potentially burned the bridges with that DRM BS, who knows if they even want to stick around for something like that again.

[antyep]

At this point, Sega and Sonic Team can’t be trusted with any future games. It’s such a shame fans have yet to master making 3D games on their own. I’d like to play a fan made game that’s not only finished but good.

[Detective Kaito]

5 hours ago, Diogenes said:

While I can see some appeal in having a separate "classic" continuity that I can follow and just try to ignore whatever dumb shit Sonic Team is up to with modern Sonic, I think it's ultimately a bad move. It's not actually fixing the series and bringing things together, it's just solidifying a divide and letting the bad parts of the series continue to rot.

Some people actually like these "bad parts" of the series, which is why this divide is happening. It's just like Classic Megaman and Megaman X.

[MegasonicZX]

9 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

Some people actually like these "bad parts" of the series, which is why this divide is happening. It's just like Classic Megaman and Megaman X.

Yeah but classic and X are actually separate characters though and it made sense for those two stories to connect (albeit X just continues in a far off future from classic). Sega could've literally just left it as "this sonic and this sonic are the same, we just changed designs" but now they have to be separate because...? Like, was there really any point in labelling them as different entities just because of differing gameplay styles? Its not like i'm frothing at the mouth over it or anything but it just baffles me as to why this was a necessary distinction that needed to be made, its just like boom sonic, they did this to try and make it easier to distinguish which sonic is which when in reality no one needed that distinction to begin with.

[Razule]

Christ, I'm getting a little tired of this particular discussion.. not tired enough to not join it, but just enough to think it's a bit repetitive. Not criticizing this thread of course, just.. annoyed with SEGA.. that this is even a thing..

I think they should have stuck to their guns and kept it time travel, or made it alternate dimensions from the start. They can't just change something like this and expect people not to question it. 

It's not like there's a set amount of time, like "Adventure is X years after 3 and Knuckles". Besides, the passage of time doesn't matter, it's a cartoony game. They could have 50 Manias and it wouldn't matter. If Modern doesn't have to worry about turning into.. Neo-Modern Sonic, neither should Classic.

5 hours ago, FFWF said:

I don't even understand why further new Classic-style games would need to be set before the Modern Sonic timeline at all.

People would complain about continuity. After Generations people legit thought Classic would grow up into Modern Sonic. Kinda shot themselves in the foot there, by implying Classic is freakin'.. Baby Sonic. Like.. did he have to be that short? He looks about the same height as Modern here:

[Diogenes]

14 hours ago, Razule said:

Kinda shot themselves in the foot there, by implying Classic is freakin'.. Baby Sonic. Like.. did he have to be that short? He looks about the same height as Modern here:

It's a matter of proportions. If they made them the same height, Classic would look like a guy in a mascot costume compared to Modern.

[Tyranno]

I don't think it's anything with any significant subtext other than making the storytelling easier. They don't need to worry about contradictions because they're separate entities. That's all.

[castell-neath]

Having read a few posts..im tending to agree with a few posts on here, maybe this move was done for easier story telling and there is no motive from sega's end.

 

[Dr. Detective]

I mean it's whatever at this point. I prefer they just not worry about it and just tell stories about Modern Sonic and stories about Classic Sonic and have them not overlap. There's no reason they should even have to be worried about how they fit together.

I don't want them to ever interact again. Ever again. No more. 

[Dannymax440]

10 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I mean it's whatever at this point. I prefer they just not worry about it and just tell stories about Modern Sonic and stories about Classic Sonic and have them not overlap. There's no reason they should even have to be worried about how they fit together.

I don't want them to ever interact again. Ever again. No more. 

Don't bet on it. Remember how Generations was supposed to be a one-off Classic/Modern crossover? 

[castell-neath]

Lol...i just completed forces and the cut scene where modern Sonic's line to Tails is: "Dont't worry I'm sure we'll see him again" before he fades away seems to suggest the crossover cow will me milked further

(wtf by the way!! I thought it would be a phantom ruby warp effect back to Mania Tails and Knuckles!!) 

[Multikaris]

37 minutes ago, castell-neath said:

Lol...i just completed forces and the cut scene where modern Sonic's line to Tails is: "Dont't worry I'm sure we'll see him again" before he fades away seems to suggest the crossover cow will me milked further

(wtf by the way!! I thought it would be a phantom ruby warp effect back to Mania Tails and Knuckles!!) 

Maybe a game where we have to get Classic back home with the use of Modern entering the Classic world.

[Bowbowis]

36 minutes ago, castell-neath said:

Lol...i just completed forces and the cut scene where modern Sonic's line to Tails is: "Dont't worry I'm sure we'll see him again" before he fades away seems to suggest the crossover cow will me milked further

Me after hearing that line:

[Multikaris]

2 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Me after hearing that line:

Kinda like “how we haven’t seen the last of the Zeti”, and “The Werehog will make a return”?

[Razule]

53 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Kinda like “how we haven’t seen the last of the Zeti”, and “The Werehog will make a return”?

Uh.. Zavok did return tho

[Multikaris]

2 minutes ago, Razule said:

Uh.. Zavok did return tho

As an illusion. 

[Dr. Detective]

10 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

As an illusion. 

He's appeared in two spin-offs after Lost World. It was clear the Zeti were staying. I have no problem with that. They're just more villains. Better that than even more heroes honestly.

I just don't want Classic Sonic to appear again. I don't really care what the character dialogue has to say. Nothing they say or have the characters say is very trustworthy in my eyes at the moment.

[Mr. Armstrong]

I'm still surprised that people want to find sense in the Sonic lore, Iizuka is known for introducing anything without context trying to find continuity in the franchise is a waste of time.

[DoubleXXCross]

They're not erasing "Classic" Sonic by making him a different character to "Modern" Sonic; they're really more creating it. Without marking a distinction, both were just Sonic. From Generations onwards they're now officially addressed and treated as characters with different looks, gameplay and value.

Also…

On 07/11/2017 at 1:59 AM, Razule said:

People would complain about continuity. After Generations people legit thought Classic would grow up into Modern Sonic. Kinda shot themselves in the foot there, by implying Classic is freakin'.. Baby Sonic. Like.. did he have to be that short? He looks about the same height as Modern here:

Congrats for picking the only shot in that entire animation where they look remotely the same height…which they don't! It's purely because they're leaning forward and their feet are cut off by the bottom of the frame, thus their heads are actually aligned, but even then you can tell Classic is smaller than Modern.

In any case I think it's pretty obvious that Classic was supposed to 'grow' into Modern simply because the game is about time-travelling through the history of the Sonic franchise. It was never meant to be visually literal, and Classic Sonic is not meant to be a child version of Modern (any more than Modern Sonic is himself a child); but Classic being Modern's actual past self in Generations is not just logical but the only conclusion one can draw from:

• Sonic: Is it me, or is that place we were just in awfully familiar?
• Tails: This Chemical Plant feels familiar. I'd never forget a smell like this! And that pink water makes me really nervous for some reason.
  Sonic: You're right Tails, this place is giving me deja vu all over again!
• Amy: Thank you, Sonic. Wow, you look younger every day! What's your secret?
• Modern Tails: Places and enemies from our past...
  Both Tails: We're travelling through time and space!
• Classic Tails: When that thing goes through time—
• Modern Tails: When the Sonics accelerate through time—
• Classic Eggman: If you would be so kind as to explain, gentleman genius Dr. Eggman From The Future.
• Classic Eggman: Oh, you are too kind, my dear future self!
• Modern Sonic: Hey Sonic! Enjoy your future. It's gonna be great!

Oh, right, and the enemy is called the Time Eater and appears during an event (Sonic's birthday/Sonic's anniversary) that explicitly marks the passage of time. Let's not forget that.

[knuckles20]

22 hours ago, castell-neath said:

Lol...i just completed forces and the cut scene where modern Sonic's line to Tails is: "Dont't worry I'm sure we'll see him again" before he fades away seems to suggest the crossover cow will me milked further

(wtf by the way!! I thought it would be a phantom ruby warp effect back to Mania Tails and Knuckles!!) 

 

 

[MainJP]

If Classic and Modern Sonic aren't the same then they must've gone through the exact same events because Adventure references CD and 3K:

I mean...what's the point? Why not just say future Classic games take place before Adventure?