Are we possessed by false hope about 3D Sonic games?

[A235]

Let’s Think Rational. There are no good 3D Sonic games since 2010. Lost world is mediocre, RoL and SC are TRASH, and F&I is mediocre. In this situation. most people are overhyped about Sonic Forces. And then? It’s flopped. Polygon strikes this game first. and other review sites will strike this game.

We wait 6 years for good Sonic game and we get nothing.(or Bad sonic game). To make matters worse, for some people who don’t like Unleashed, Colors, Generations, they wait over 15 years for good Sonic game. But as I said above. It's nothing.

 

To be honest, I’m really tired to wait for a good Sonic game now. It seems that Sonic team doesn't learn anything from previous game’s failure. - or they learn a wrong thing since 2011 (or 2003~4). how don't they learn anything or learn wrong thing for 6~15 years? It means that they are incapable of making Sonic game. Because I think Lots of restructuring dwindled ability to make good Sonic games. Core developers are left from Sega. and newcomers who don't know sonic makes Sonic game.  In this situation, I stealthily felt that we are possessed by false hope. I can't find a rational reason to hope about next Sonic game. And I think I feel shame to say I'm Sonic fan or I'm interested in Sonic series because I'm afraid to be branded at unreasonable gamers. So let’s ask a question. Is there logical, rational theory about that there is a hope about good 3D Sonic games? At least, I think there is no hope for 3D Sonic games now.

P.s Reason to making a thread is to enlighten about this series’ reality.

 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

14 minutes ago, A235 said:

Let’s Think Rational. There are no good 3D Sonic games since 2010. Lost world is mediocre, RoL and SC are TRASH, and F&I is mediocre. In this situation. most people are overhyped about Sonic Forces. And then? It’s flopped. Polygon strikes this game first. and other review sites will strike this game.

We wait 6 years for good Sonic game and we get nothing.(or Bad sonic game). To make matters worse, for some people who don’t like Unleashed, Colors, Generations, they wait over 15 years for good Sonic game. But as I said above. It's nothing.

 

To be honest, I’m really tired to wait for a good Sonic game now. It seems that Sonic team doesn't learn anything from previous game’s failure. - or they learn a wrong thing since 2011 (or 2003~4). how don't they learn anything or learn wrong thing for 6~15 years? It means that they are incapable of making Sonic game. Because I think Lots of restructuring dwindled ability to make good Sonic games. Core developers are left from Sega. and newcomers who don't know sonic makes Sonic game.  In this situation, I stealthily felt that we are possessed by false hope. I can't find a rational reason to hope about next Sonic game. And I think I feel shame to say I'm Sonic fan or I'm interested in Sonic series because I'm afraid to be branded at unreasonable gamers. So let’s ask a question. Is there logical, rational theory about that there is a hope about good 3D Sonic games? At least, I think there is no hope for 3D Sonic games now.

P.s Reason to making a thread is to enlighten about this series’ reality.

 

I think there's hope.

Unfortunately, that hope is not within Sonic Team themselves right now and for that, you are right to be disappointed.

 

[A235]

2 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I think there's hope.

Unfortunately, that hope is not within Sonic Team themselves right now and for that, you are right to be disappointed.

 

Hope what. what is the hope of this series?. Please explain concretely. 

[Diogenes]

At this point my hope for 3D Sonic lies almost entirely in the fanbase, or in Sega bringing in a team that actually knows what they're doing with Sonic. Because Sonic Team...Sonic Team seems pretty well fucked. I don't even like their "good" games much; I actually just replayed Generations so I could freshly compare it to what I've seen from Forces, and it was a pretty bad experience from start to finish.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

@A235

Team Mania. They just produced the best Sonic game in over 15 years and have nothing to do with Sonic Team. Whether its 2D or 3D, their existence means that another group with competency, vision, and understanding, have the potential to make even bigger titles.

If SEGA is smart, Team Mania will be promoted, right now; At minimum they will get another opportunity to develop a game for the franchise in the same capacity they just did. But they've earned more than that. They've proved more than that. Even without having done a 3D Sonic game yet, they're still the most qualified to move forward with because they are exactly where Yuji Naka  was before Sonic Adventure in 1996, but with several big advantages....

...That's if they're interested.

If its one and done with them (extremely unlikely) then yeah, Sonic is probably hopeless for the foreseeable future.

 

[Zaysho]

OP has been banned due to finding they were a ban-dodger.

That said, I don't think the topic is a completely lost cause, so everyone else is welcome to continue and talk about their hopes for future 3D Sonic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'd call it having too much hype and optimism than necessary, but that's mainly the fault of the game developers and how they go about promoting things.

There's not really a false hope than there is a simple desire to get a decent 3D installment that's worthwhile in a long run and one that gets bigger and fierce the more it isn't brought about. But it's always blindsided by something that is less unexpected and more conflicting when it come to how the game would play. Key example would be the Werehog in Unleashed--this game has more craft and love put into it than any 3D game after it, and would have been seen as the perfect 3D game at the time of its release were it not for half the game playing the opposite of what many were looking more forward to.

[SpongicX]

Hard to say if Sonic Team is the problem, or Sega.  Keep in mind that the team that made Sonic Mania were indie developers. It makes you wonder how different the game could have been, if Sega owned the team behind Mania. Just look at Rare, they used to be real good at making games, and had a lot of creative freedom, until Microsoft bought them out, cancelled a lot of their projects, altered many of their games, and even drove the founders to quit, and lay off the many talented workers who were in the gaming business longer than Microsoft. The things people loved about Rare is basically dead, thanks to Microsoft.

Could Sega ruin the team behind Sonic Mania, if they somehow owned them? They definitely killed Big Red Button on their first and only project, and they didn’t even own them, but Nintendo is kind of responsible for that as well. Sega still should have thought ahead, before making an agreement to make a game that wasn’t made for Wii U to be a Wii U exclusive.

Regardless of who is to blame, it is certain that something has been going wrong with Sega and Sonic Team lately, both appear to have lost their touch, and they don’t seem very dedicated or motivated any more. They seem more focused on microtransaction mobile games that endlessly flood the games with ads. Sonic Mania may be owned by Sega, but we all know they had little to do with the game, besides giving it the ok, and stamping their name across it.

[Dr. Mechano]

Nah, I don't have any hope in a good 3D Sonic game. Sonic Team just doesn't have the track record to inspire hope in me for one.

Could one happen? Sure, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not going to get into the cycle of getting my hopes up and being let down by new Sonic games over and over again. Until they break their streak of terrible games, I see no reason to ever buy into the hype or look forward to an upcoming 3D game for even a moment.

[DoubleXXCross]

There's literally an image for this that I'm not allowed to bring up due to an actual rule that will get me banned if I post it, apparently.

But it's also perfectly true. We don't just have 'false hope' every time a 3D Sonic game is announced, we have so much 'false hope' it's a fucking meme. Even our breaking out of it is the meme. We get hyped, we get let down, we blow up, we swear never to be suckered in again, we are suckered in again. There's a reason it's called a cycle.

It's a harsh criticism that obviously annoys a lot of people in the fanbase, but it's also a hard truth that hits the nail on the head and has been hitting the nail on the head for nearly a decade. That's how predictable this is. That nobody brought it up in the first 6 months after the game's announcement had me almost speechless. We could not possibly have developed enough good will in just two years after RoL to let this slide.

[knuckles20]

You say there where no good 3D games since 2010, but that would mean Sega actually made 3D games since 2010.

[Tyranno]

Generations came out in 2011, and that's generally well regarded.

Iiiii dunno.

[Celestia]

13 hours ago, DoubleXXCross said:

There's literally an image for this that I'm not allowed to bring up due to an actual rule that will get me banned if I post it, apparently.

But it's also perfectly true. We don't just have 'false hope' every time a 3D Sonic game is announced, we have so much 'false hope' it's a fucking meme. Even our breaking out of it is the meme. We get hyped, we get let down, we blow up, we swear never to be suckered in again, we are suckered in again. There's a reason it's called a cycle.

It's a harsh criticism that obviously annoys a lot of people in the fanbase, but it's also a hard truth that hits the nail on the head and has been hitting the nail on the head for nearly a decade. That's how predictable this is. That nobody brought it up in the first 6 months after the game's announcement had me almost speechless. We could not possibly have developed enough good will in just two years after RoL to let this slide.

As far as this community goes, people were largely skeptical of Forces. The "cycle" is maybe applicable to some fans, but it's hardly a universal truth.

The main reason it's not allowed here (for the record, you probably wouldn't get banned for posting it, jeez) is that it tends to get people riled up, for obvious reasons.

[Your Vest Friend]

"Are we possessed by false hope about 3D Sonic games?"

What I want: A game I have fun with.

What I got with Forces: A game I'm having fun with.

Sure, not every 3D Sonic game is a hit with me, but that's the same with 2D Sonic games (moreso than with 3D), and with pretty much every franchise in existence. I wouldn't call that having false hope. 
 

[ShadowSJG]

20 hours ago, Super Mechanio said:

Nah, I don't have any hope in a good 3D Sonic game. Sonic Team just doesn't have the track record to inspire hope in me for one.

Could one happen? Sure, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not going to get into the cycle of getting my hopes up and being let down by new Sonic games over and over again. Until they break their streak of terrible games, I see no reason to ever buy into the hype or look forward to an upcoming 3D game for even a moment.

What do you think of unleashed and colors

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, ShadowSJG said:

What do you think of unleashed and colors

Not a fan of the boost, period. Not a fan of the werehog either.

So I find those games fundamentally unenjoyable.

[superman43]

21 hours ago, Super Mechanio said:

Not a fan of the boost, period. Not a fan of the werehog either.

So I find those games fundamentally unenjoyable.

I can enjoy playing Generations without boost. But since the ranking system after Unleashed is based on speed rather than anything less, nah, just fuck that.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

On 11/6/2017 at 9:55 PM, SpongicX said:

Hard to say if Sonic Team is the problem, or Sega.  Keep in mind that the team that made Sonic Mania were indie developers. It makes you wonder how different the game could have been, if Sega owned the team behind Mania. Just look at Rare, they used to be real good at making games, and had a lot of creative freedom, until Microsoft bought them out, cancelled a lot of their projects, altered many of their games, and even drove the founders to quit, and lay off the many talented workers who were in the gaming business longer than Microsoft. The things people loved about Rare is basically dead, thanks to Microsoft.

Could Sega ruin the team behind Sonic Mania, if they somehow owned them? They definitely killed Big Red Button on their first and only project, and they didn’t even own them, but Nintendo is kind of responsible for that as well. Sega still should have thought ahead, before making an agreement to make a game that wasn’t made for Wii U to be a Wii U exclusive.

Regardless of who is to blame, it is certain that something has been going wrong with Sega and Sonic Team lately, both appear to have lost their touch, and they don’t seem very dedicated or motivated any more. They seem more focused on microtransaction mobile games that endlessly flood the games with ads. Sonic Mania may be owned by Sega, but we all know they had little to do with the game, besides giving it the ok, and stamping their name across it.

Sega didn't seem to manage Forces development team well if we're going there. Same director from colors who is an anti-thesis of Sonic? Check. Fairly new and small dev team with little experience in a Sonic game? Check. It's not that Sonic Team is made up of a bad team per say...Just poor organization and leadership. I can definitely relate to that.

I do know that SEGA EU and SEGA US thought the Avatar was a poor idea(they were wrong) but I don't have the information if the product was cut part way because of that.

[Salamander]

4 hours ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

I do know that SEGA EU and SEGA US thought the Avatar was a poor idea(they were wrong) but I don't have the information if the product was cut part way because of that.

No, they thought that Sonic Team's original, far more ambitious plans for the Avatar were a poor idea.  Not knowing what those plans were, we cannot fairly judge if they were right or wrong.  (Was the original post on the subject in this thread?  It appears to have been deleted.)

[Kvitron Z]

My hopes now closer from 50/50 to 48/52. And if something bad/dumb happens after this - i'll be ready believe in Nostradamus's prophecy about nuclear war (but i still be scare).

[Phos]

Sonic Team seems perfectly happy to stay in the rut they've been digging.  Expecting a real 3D Sonic game out of them might be expecting too much.  Stuff like Sonic Utopia shows the seeds of the idea but it's still just an idea, and there is no path.  The way I see it, putting it together into a finished article that actually taps the potential would be a Mario 64 level revelation.  

Was the avatar cut down in scope?  Might explain why it seems so much like a reskinned Tails.  

[Dannymax440]

Colors and Generations did get the "Sonic sucks" lines to stop for a while and the games, while not without flaws, are still enjoyable for those who like the boost gameplay, its not for everyone.

The future of a solid 3D title is bleak, but it can still work. It just needs the right team and effort.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

I mean...2008 with World Adventure..Colors in 2010(not really a good 3D title but it's solid) Generations in 2011, 2013 Lost world and now 2017 with Forces. 3 good titles followed by 2 average/mediocre ones. 

That ain't horrible but the next one needs to actually be...I dunno, amazing?

[Phos]

What's so different about forces from those?

[Razule]

On 09/11/2017 at 5:24 AM, FFWF said:

No, they thought that Sonic Team's original, far more ambitious plans for the Avatar were a poor idea.  Not knowing what those plans were, we cannot fairly judge if they were right or wrong.  (Was the original post on the subject in this thread?  It appears to have been deleted.)

I saved that post, but I guess it was deleted for a reason.