where will sonic team go from here

[Tara]

7 minutes ago, Razule said:

Yeah, the fanbase

Cuz we make the games right

Cuz us alone are able to support the games right

Because we contribute to the Metascore right

This logic is just juvenile, man.. it is not our fault when these things happen. We're all along for the ride.

Moderator has already handled it.  Please don't pile on.

[Swing]

I think they will just follow the new trends that will come in the future. Sonic was kinda always like that. Unlike Mario or Crash Bandicoot Sonic never really created his own image besides been fast. His Universe, tone and presentation always changes with each generation. Their for I can not see Sonic really changing in the future. I mean, this is how Sonic goes. A new trend rises, Sega follows this new trend, creates a new Sonic game with new mechanics, people hate it, fans buy it and than the circle continues. 

[StaticMania]

Where will Sonic Team go from here?

Hopefully away from the boost, that's about all I can really say on this.

It's been really kinda boring not having anything to look forward to.

But I also hope they keep it, so I can remain apathetic to any new games.

[Balding Spider]

1 hour ago, A sonic fan said:

so after sonic forces's mediocre reception what do you think sonic team will do next.

Hopefully be thrown out of the building

1 hour ago, A sonic fan said:

note i said think as in what do you think sonic team will do not what u want them to do.

Oh, well in that case I think they'll learn nothing from this and repeat the mistakes in future titles only improving slightly over time. Then throw away what they've learned and rush another title out to meet a deadline, bringing about an endless cycle.

Spoiler

No not that kind.

 

[Razule]

11 minutes ago, Tara said:

Moderator has already handled it.  Please don't pile on.

Oh sorry

[rahkeesh]

Considering forces low price and apparent lack of budget for new assets or level designers, I'm not really optimistic. Especially if the game fails to sell widely like they are clearly hoping. I don't think failure will spell "lets go back to the drawing board" so much as "let's just pull the plug," because failing to spend on a major multiplatform sonic game suggests they don't have the resources to take any risks. Maybe they just put all their eggs in Mania 2 and Mario Olympics for a while.

[Tarnish]

Maybe this was some sort of last ditch effort before deciding on the future for the franchise? Lower the budget and hope for bigger return, if that don't work, try something else?

[knuckles20]

How about an actual 3D game.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

51 minutes ago, rahkeesh said:

Considering forces low price and apparent lack of budget for new assets or level designers, I'm not really optimistic. Especially if the game fails to sell widely like they are clearly hoping. I don't think failure will spell "lets go back to the drawing board" so much as "let's just pull the plug," because failing to spend on a major multiplatform sonic game suggests they don't have the resources to take any risks. Maybe they just put all their eggs in Mania 2 and Mario Olympics for a while.

Sadly, this seems to me the most likely scenario.

Unless this game moves a decent amount of units, big budget Sonic games seem likely to go on hiatus after this while SEGA affirmatively decides how to handle the brand going forward. Mania 2 will almost certainly be greenlit as SEGA will rethink their goals. 

My completely--and very reasonable--assumption at this point is that Forces will review mediocre on average, so the saving grace will have to be sales. If they are too low, Modern Sonic will almost certainly now go on hiatus. If they are decent (my current expectation) then the next project is as likely as Forces to be weird and confused with corporate meddling and Focus Group testing. Things will not improve and we'll be here again, except perhaps with worse circumstances. Currently, they have no clear vision, and are trying to spread too few eggs among many baskets hoping to gain momentum in one direction or another. Its not going to work out well. It already hasn't. The general audience that they're looking to win back, are not coming back with Modern Sonic games.

 

Some rumors have surfaced among the community that there may be some prototype game in the garage that will be shown later but until we see some strong evidence of that I think it is safest to assume that... well... there is no such project. I do think at one point a few years ago there was, though. That seems likely.

[Tarnish]

9 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

How about an actual 3D game.

From a team who doesn't even understand 2D?

[Cyalume]

What Sonic Team does going forward isn't something that I'm particularly interested in following at that point; rather, if they come out with something halfway decent, I may *possibly* give it a shot if it gets a very hefty sale somewhere down the line. Most important to me is that they've demonstrated they aren't worth putting faith into, so I won't be gambling on any of the future products until I can know with absolutely certainty that I'll enjoy whatever it is that they're putting out. Bless Steam's 2 hour return window; I gave the game (Forces) a shot due solely to that, and quickly discovered how much I disliked the avatar gameplay. I expect that they'll either: A) make another game similar to Forces, or B ) go off on another experimental tangent with something like Lost World.

What I'm interested in now more than anything else is how the community proceeds with wonderful fan projects such as S2HD, and Sonic-esque titles such as Freedom Planet.

[antyep]

14 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Unless this game moves a decent amount of units, big budget Sonic games seem likely to go on hiatus after this while SEGA affirmatively decides how to handle the brand going forward. Mania 2 will almost certainly be greenlit as SEGA will rethink their goals.

At this point, I think Sega are concerned with Japanese reception as this game seems to be made with them in mind.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

Just now, antyep said:

At this point, I think Sega are concerned with Japanese reception as this game seems to be made with them in mind.

I'm not sure about that.... It makes little sense, seeing as how the market for Sonic has always been FAR greater in the West (USA/Europe).

Japan largely doesn't care about Sonic. They may be making an effort to appeal to that market once again but it'd be quite stupid for two reasons: 1) They just don't have the nostalgia and memories of Sonic like the West does and  2) Modern Sonic mostly sucks. If the games are reviewed poorly, they're not going to start investing now. 

[Razule]

8 minutes ago, antyep said:

At this point, I think Sega are concerned with Japanese reception as this game seems to be made with them in mind.

Well.. western countries are still always going to be their biggest source of profit when it comes to Sonic.

They need more than 500K sales

[antyep]

26 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I'm not sure about that.... It makes little sense, seeing as how the market for Sonic has always been FAR greater in the West (USA/Europe).

Japan largely doesn't care about Sonic. They may be making an effort to appeal to that market once again but it'd be quite stupid for two reasons: 1) They just don't have the nostalgia and memories of Sonic like the West does and  2) Modern Sonic mostly sucks. If the games are reviewed poorly, they're not going to start investing now. 

But last I heard, Japan don't care much for Classic Sonic either (except Generations Classic Sonic, because he's 'Kawaii' *sarcasm*)

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

11 minutes ago, antyep said:

But last I heard, Japan don't care much for Classic Sonic either (except Generations Classic Sonic, because he's 'Kawaii' *sarcasm*)

They don't. That's part of my point.

Sonic's audience has always been in the West, whether SEGA of Japan likes that or not. And they're not winning over the East with mediocre games either. They have to contend with Mario, and Mario is king almost everywhere.

They need to do whatever it takes to get Sonic back on top here because its where he made his name and where people still care. When people refer to the rivalry between SEGA and Nintendo in the 90s, they're talking about in the West. Here, SEGA actually did overtake Nintendo for a brief period in total market share (which was basically unfathomable)...and in large part due to the success and popularity of the classic Sonic the Hedgehog game series.

 

Might as well be another lifetime, though.....Sheesh. SEGA has not done their mascot justice in 20 years.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

SoJ should just let go of Sonic. They have no idea what to do with him, their own culture is less privy to him than the West, and everything they produce is polished up by western elements of development. Having Sonic produced over there is like having Monster Hunter produced here. It's just not working. 

[Mad Convoy]

So, I got the idea for this question from some people on the Sonic Forces Review Thread, but I thought it would be better placed here.

Out of curiousity, and with no malice intended and open to any response, what do you guys think gutting Sonic Team entirely or dissolving it as a whole would accomplish? Who should the staff be replaced with and from where should the replacements be from? What exactly would it change? Would this change be for the better or worse?

From my perspective, it kind of seems like they already did that after Sonic Lost World, what with Forces being developed almost entirely by new guys and the recently promoted, and this forum ended up hating Forces. I think it'd be better to keep at least some semblance of consistency in terms of who's working on the game so that the new guys and the recently promoted can stick around long enough in their respective roles to fully adapt into them. I mean, yeah the staff was gutted in 2007 because of Sonic 06, but even then Sonic Generations didn't happen immediately after Sonic 06, we had all the good and all the bad of Unleashed and Colors beforehand. Sonic Mania didn't happen immediately after Sonic 06 either-- we, or at least we in the West, had to deal with two whole Sonic 4 episodes before Iizuka finally managed to convince Sega to let a development company do their mostly separate thing with Classic Sonic.

I mean, these intermediate games don't have to be Sonic, and they don't have to get Sega too involved either. Some side projects to get experience and try out new ideas, get a little break from developing Sonic games, possibly get to do other stuff. Nakamura hinted at wanting to do a Samba De Amigo game for the Switch. From my perspective, knowing how badly the guy got fucked over on his last attempt by Sega, I think Iizuka should be given another go at making a new NiGHTs game. Except this time he and his choice of crew get most of the control and not Sega, a la Shenmue 3 or Sonic Mania. I mean, if the resulting product sucks, at least we'll have some indication if the problem is mostly on Sega's end or Sonic Team's end.

[speedfreak]

I hope Sonic is taken away from Sonic Team and given to competent developers. 

[RedFox99]

@Mad Convoy I am partial to the idea of Sonic Team handling their other IPs while letting other developers (Headcanon and Dimps for example) take care of Sonic for a while. 

[Mad Convoy]

1 minute ago, speedfreak said:

I hope Sonic is taken away from Sonic Team and given to competent developers. 

You've made that very clear, but I was hoping for some more detail. I hope that you do not take the below as condescending, confrontational, and nitpicking, as I am honestly curious. I think your viewpoint is rather interesting.

Who are "competent developers" to you-- what do they do, what do you like about them, even better (though not required) if you have somebody in specific in mind that you think would be awesome for Sonic? How does Sonic Team fail to fit the definition of competent, again its best but not required to name specific individuals working on the game, what they do, why its bad? Does Sonic Team get to work on other games besides Sonic or just get dissolved outright?

4 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

@Mad Convoy I am partial to the idea of Sonic Team handling their other IPs while letting other developers (Headcanon and Dimps for example) take care of Sonic for a while. 

I'd be okay with that tbh. Got some questions for you too though. What other IPs would you like to see Sonic Team work on? Would these other developers focus on 2D or some 3D stuff too? When would be a good timing for Sonic Team to come back?

[RedFox99]

1 minute ago, Mad Convoy said:

I'd be okay with that tbh. Got some questions for you too though. What other IPs would you like to see Sonic Team work on? Would these other developers focus on 2D or some 3D stuff too? When would be a good timing for Sonic Team to come back?

Not sure to be honest.

[Gabz Girl]

Sheesh I dunno. If Sonic Forces underperforms in sales again,  I guess the only thing they could do is give Sonic to a different team of developers at Sega and let the current Sonic Team work on something else. Hey, I heard Nakamura wanted to make another Samba de Amigo. Do it! 

Yes it would be a risk, a very big one. But if these new developers are given a few years to make another ambitious Sonic game like the Adventure series and Unleashed then it might be worth it. 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

14 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

So, I got the idea for this question from some people on the Sonic Forces Review Thread, but I thought it would be better placed here.

Out of curiousity, and with no malice intended and open to any response, what do you guys think gutting Sonic Team entirely or dissolving it as a whole would accomplish? Who should the staff be replaced with and from where should the replacements be from? What exactly would it change? Would this change be for the better or worse?

From my perspective, it kind of seems like they already did that after Sonic Lost World, what with Forces being developed almost entirely by new guys and the recently promoted, and this forum ended up hating Forces. I think it'd be better to keep at least some semblance of consistency in terms of who's working on the game so that the new guys and the recently promoted can stick around long enough in their respective roles to fully adapt into them. I mean, yeah the staff was gutted in 2007 because of Sonic 06, but even then Sonic Generations didn't happen immediately after Sonic 06, we had all the good and all the bad of Unleashed and Colors beforehand. Sonic Mania didn't happen immediately after Sonic 06 either-- we, or at least we in the West, had to deal with two whole Sonic 4 episodes before Iizuka finally managed to convince Sega to let a development company do their mostly separate thing with Classic Sonic.

I mean, these intermediate games don't have to be Sonic, and they don't have to get Sega too involved either. Some side projects to get experience and try out new ideas, get a little break from developing Sonic games, possibly get to do other stuff. Nakamura hinted at wanting to do a Samba De Amigo game for the Switch. From my perspective, knowing how badly the guy got fucked over on his last attempt by Sega, I think Iizuka should be given another go at making a new NiGHTs game. Except this time he and his choice of crew get most of the control and not Sega, a la Shenmue 3 or Sonic Mania. I mean, if the resulting product sucks, at least we'll have some indication if the problem is mostly on Sega's end or Sonic Team's end.

The problem with both forces and SEGA, in this instance, is the execution.

Sonic team clearly needs new talent but the new talent has to have a vision. And not just a vision but a proven fundamental understanding of the IP they're handling. Can't just grab some random new dudes and stick them on an old formula that they have no experience with.

And Iizuka himself has no clue what he's doing at this point. I intend no disrespect towards the man because he actually has seemed to be kind towards Sonic fans but he does not know what to do with Sonic and it shows. On top of that, he has not seemed to understand what the basic appeal of the series gameplay is, even with the great irony being that his first game with the franchise was Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Compare that with Christian Whitehead who clearly "gets it", as demonstrated by Mania and his interviews.

 

[PC the Hedgehog]

Sonic Team is clearly watching the success of Mania closely--heck, I think they said they used it as inspiration for several aspects of Forces. In any case, hopefully they'll continue to look to Mania's success as how to do a really good Sonic game that the fans are receptive to.

As said before, though, their next move likely depends on the commercial success of Forces. If it sells well enough, they'll likely stay the course and give us another divisive game in a few years. If it bombs like Boom or Lost World, I'd wager they'll be looking at Mania a LOT closer when it comes to developing their next game. What that means, who knows, but it will be very, very interesting to find out.

As for Nakamura...screw Samba De Amigo, put that man to work on my Rhythm Thief sequel!