where will sonic team go from here

[Multikaris]

On 11/6/2017 at 1:28 PM, Miragnarok said:

To get past the waning novelty of Classic, do something NEW. But are the Drop Dash and those one-dimensional goofy Hard-Boiled Recolors enough? They were enough when Mania came out, but after that? What about the innovations of the previous 2D games from the first Dark Age? The Advance series provided nice new mechanics, such as Boost Mode, that would be fun. Rush and Rivals could present even more opportunities and story ideas. Unlike Mania, these games even took themselves seriously, and explored new worlds while keeping the old in mind. And all of them shoot holes in the shitty friends theory. Probably not the ones from the second Dark Age, though. Kudos to the otherwise infamous Sonic 4 for the co-op maneuvers, though. Even some fan-games offer more new and interesting (interesting is the power word here, as opposed to just new) concepts than big-budget 2D console platformers IN GENERAL. 

 

These also have to be some pretty cosmopolitan entries, released on as many platforms as possible. Oh, and can Modern Sonic appear in a 2D classic game to repay the favor? Learn from the failures of other big 2D platformers like Rayman Legends.

 

On 11/6/2017 at 3:44 PM, Miragnarok said:

There is nothing wrong to me with the Drop Dash Move. It actually feels great, almost like Sonic’s true ability for his Jump. Who’s to say Tails, Knuckles, and the like couldn’t also Peel-Out? But the Drop Dash is all him. And yes, we should actually be exploring Classic Sonic’s world and logic even more. And the thing is, the HBH came after the likes of the Deadly Six, making them feel redundant. But it was only a matter of circumstance. And don’t we already have Crash Bandicoot for that? And i’d take a bit more threat over just character appeal (not to say that doesn’t have it’s place).

 

The whole presentation of Mania doesn’t come off as being as serious as the original games did. The Dimps and Backbone games were superior in their worldbuilding aspects, not just innovations. I also agree about the level design in the later DIMPS/Backbone games being bad, though not to the extent of the ones from the second dark age. Same with the core of the games. But I totally disagree about the art direction. And the reason the dark and dramatic elements have such an impact is indeed because the characters are all so adorable. You just want to scoop them up into your arms for a re-assuring cuddle.

 

8 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

Which mechanics would those be?

Boost mode from Advance 2. Tag-Team from S4E2 and Advance 3. 

[Tarnish]

1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

 

 

Boost mode from Advance 2. Tag-Team from S4E2 and Advance 3. 

They were new I'll give them that, but they weren't exactly cool if you ask me.

The boost mode just made the game way too fast to follow and react to without knowing the stage layout in advance (yay for pun), and sometimes even that isn't enough to avoid taking damage.

The tag team in Advance 3 was almost entirely pointless, a ton of those new moves they introduced had no practical use. Why would you choose Amy as a partner and jump in an uncurled, vulnerable state? Or the other side of the spectrum: choosing Cream as a partner just allowed you to spam the Chao attack move and destroy every boss in a matter of seconds.

[ClassicKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Tarnish said:

Which mechanics would those be?

Homing attack in a 2D Sonic game?

[molul]

The tag team move in S4E2 was horrible. Well, flying was ok (although Mania's approach, like Sonic 2 remastered and Sonic 3 Complete, is much better, as it doesn't pause the game so much), but rolling was like free invincibility and super speed. It should have been some item or a mechanic usable on a few stages sections, not anytime.

[Blue Blood]

To Dimps' credit, they were the ones who pioneered the boost mechanic. Rush and Rush Adventure (and Colours DS to a lesser extent) remain the best examples of it, with properly tiered level design, tricks requiring player engagement to build up the tension gauge and a physics engine that was at least fit for purpose even if far from perfect. All of their efforts went down hill afterwards though, and Forces is pretty much the antithesis to the original boost.

[BlossomHaze]

One thing I wish they could do is keep Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic separate. I know I'm not the only one who thought Classic Sonic was utterly pointless in Forces -- it's one of the glaring issues I had with Forces as an overall experience (and this is coming from someone who enjoyed the game). Obviously I didn't mind Classic Sonic in Generations because that was the point of the game, but he served no purpose in Forces except as a nod to Mania. The avatar is a cool idea, I hope they try to expand on it as a side thing so they can focus on Sonic and friends. Speaking of friends, I wouldn't mind having some of them playable again, even if its just through unlockable content. I think they need to just sit and think and look at feedback from fans and critics to get an idea of what works, what doesn't, and see what new things people want.

And please make Silver playable in a console game again... I miss him, haha.

[Nicky Nicardo]

I never minded Classic Sonic in Forces, honestly. Did he have much of a reason to be there? Not... really, I suppose, but his presence didn't really hinder the gameplay or storyline for me at all - I quite enjoyed his levels actually, far more than I thought I would given the general consensus that they were terrible.

Plus, when he left at the end of the game... it did make me tear up and cry a bit. xD

[Soniman]

Man it feels weird to finally just not have any hope at all lol.

I currently have no faith in current Sonic Team to turn out a decent product right now so whatever they do ill expect it to be bad, even if they "listen" to critcism and change up the gameplay theyll probably screw that up to. Any good ideas they might have mean nothing when the people in charge dont have the talent to pull it off in a satisfying way so well just keep getting bad boost games or experimental garbage unless they get a massive upheaveal in staff

Hers to another year of Sonic disappointing me, looking forward Mania 2 

[Tarnish]

1 hour ago, Soniman said:

Man it feels weird to finally just not have any hope at all lol.

Welcome to the club, lol.

It would be interesting to know how much creative freedom does Sonic Team actually have. Do they have free reign to do whatever they see fit for the franchise, or does higher-ups tell them what direction to take each time (like make the tone lighter or darker, use the boost formula or try something different).

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

On 1/6/2018 at 4:33 PM, Tarnish said:

The tag team in Advance 3 was almost entirely pointless, a ton of those new moves they introduced had no practical use. Why would you choose Amy as a partner and jump in an uncurled, vulnerable state? Or the other side of the spectrum: choosing Cream as a partner just allowed you to spam the Chao attack move and destroy every boss in a matter of seconds.

In Sonic Heroes, the game forces you to use its mechanics at many points in the game. In SADV3, you can use it whatever you want. Play the game regularly? Sure.

It seems to me like the “pointless” comments just means the player never really tried hard enough to figure out the intricacies of different formations. Mechanically, it’s the deepest of Sonic games since it has a lot of customization with it.

On 1/10/2018 at 11:41 AM, Blue Blood said:

To Dimps' credit, they were the ones who pioneered the boost mechanic. Rush and Rush Adventure (and Colours DS to a lesser extent) remain the best examples of it, with properly tiered level design, tricks requiring player engagement to build up the tension gauge and a physics engine that was at least fit for purpose even if far from perfect. All of their efforts went down hill afterwards though, and Forces is pretty much the antithesis to the original boost.

It’s not the anti thesis as it still applies itself with the philosophy of speed and platforming. The difference is how dumbed down it is, lacking any sort of rhythm, challenge or flow.

[Tarnish]

19 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

In Sonic Heroes, the game forces you to use its mechanics at many points in the game. In SADV3, you can use it whatever you want. Play the game regularly? Sure.

It seems to me like the “pointless” comments just means the player never really tried hard enough to figure out the intricacies of different formations. Mechanically, it’s the deepest of Sonic games since it has a lot of customization with it.

Can you show me a video where all these "intricacies" are well demonstrated? Because for me, it always felt Advance 3 was built with the Advance 2 mechanics in mind, and these new moves were added at the last minute.

Also, being 'mechanically the deepest' doesn't amount to much if said mechanics are just not fun to use.

[Salamander]

I think there are a lot of games which are designed to give you the option to use certain abilities but don't mandate their use - without understanding that there's a "go with what works" mentality which tends to avoid experimentation because playing without the optional abilities feels easier.  A lot of players will find a working strategy and keep on using it, because experimentation is less efficient than the convenient "vanilla" experience.

Advance 3 might well be an example of this; you're given so many abilities, but it's not actually that common to come across a point at which they're really obviously useful.  Actually, in retrospect, this is probably why the special stage access method is what it is; they want you to replay levels to get the most out of the abilities, so they scatter important collectibles all over the place.

[molul]

There was this Genesis game, Dynamite Headdy, that had lots of power ups (around 20), and they appeared in small groups in certain stages or sections. To me, that's great. The game is really diverse and all abilities make sense as you use them just where needed.

Changing some abilities, like the boost, to power ups that you can only use sometimes, would make a huge impact on some Sonic games' gameplay.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

1 hour ago, molul said:

There was this Genesis game, Dynamite Headdy, that had lots of power ups (around 20), and they appeared in small groups in certain stages or sections. To me, that's great. The game is really diverse and all abilities make sense as you use them just where needed.

Changing some abilities, like the boost, to power ups that you can only use sometimes, would make a huge impact on some Sonic games' gameplay.

I’m shocked someone mentioned headdy. This dude was lost in the vast sea of Sonic popularity when Sonic 3 came out.

[PerfectChaos]

2 hours ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

I’m shocked someone mentioned headdy. This dude was lost in the vast sea of Sonic popularity when Sonic 3 came out.

Someone ran it at the GDQ which just ended yesterday. That's how I learned of the game's existence

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

5 hours ago, PerfectChaos said:

Someone ran it at the GDQ which just ended yesterday. That's how I learned of the game's existence

Good. Dynamite Headdy was a really great platformer for its time. I loved it more then Sonic at the time I played It many moons ago.

[molul]

I'm a big Headdy fan I have the original cartridge and play it every few months. 

I remember drawing sketches for a sequel when I was a child, with Headdy and Heather's child as the main character ^^ What an amazing platformer... So original, incredible music, so many bosses... Awesome. I've always had a hard time deciding which is my favourite Mega Drive game, Sonic 3&K or Dynamite Headdy. 

I was able to find Nazo2 Suzuki's (music composer at Treasure) latest company email and contacted him to congratulate and thank him for his work, especially on DH. He was very kind and told me he heard Treasure had shut down definitely, and  was sad that it happened.

 

[ClassicKnuckles]

We need another Unleashed, because let's face it, Sonic Forces (while I don't agree) is another 06. We need a game that takes Sonic in a completely new direction, like Unleashed did.

[molul]

Another game that's remembered as being half good, half forgettable? Not sure about that.

[Tarnish]

1 hour ago, molul said:

Another game that's remembered as being half good, half forgettable? Not sure about that.

Would still be better than a game that's disappointing in all aspects like Forces was.

[Razule]

What we need is a Sonic Oddyssey. A Sonic Breath of the Wild. But it just seems so bleak.. Sonic Team as it is may never be able to deliver a truly great Sonic game.

[molul]

2 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Would still be better than a game that's disappointing in all aspects like Forces was.

Can't disagree with that

[ClassicKnuckles]

10 hours ago, molul said:

Another game that's remembered as being half good, half forgettable? Not sure about that.

I'm not talking in terms of quality, I mean we need a game that takes Sonic in an entirely new direction.

[Tarnish]

26 minutes ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

I'm not talking in terms of quality, I mean we need a game that takes Sonic in an entirely new direction.

Tho what other kind of direction could they take it in? We had 2 main directions, a direction based on the 2D games which was using physics as part of the gameplay (Adventure 1, 2) and a direction which pretty much ignored physics in exchange for constant speed and spectacle (boost formula). What else could they do?

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

11 hours ago, Razule said:

What we need is a Sonic Oddyssey. A Sonic Breath of the Wild. But it just seems so bleak.. Sonic Team as it is may never be able to deliver a truly great Sonic game.

I really do like Mario Odyssey and the passion behind it but I have many issues with it that tends to get ignored. Oh, We did get a "Sonic Odyssey" and that game was Sonic Forces. The difference is that Forces wasn't fully a realized product, therefore wasn't very good of a Sonic game. Seriously, both games follow the exact same design philosophy just expressed differently(both games wanted to mend it's hardcore and newer fans, thus homogenizing the level design. This is one example).