At what point did Sonic Forces lose you?

[JezMM]

The whole process was a series of regular ups and downs for me, but it had a happy ending:

 

First Trailer - I was into the return to a more serious tone and just seeing Modern Sonic generally after a year or so of Sonic Boom focus.

Classic Sonic's return - I was disappointed that once again, Modern Sonic was determined to not be able to carry a game by himself, especially after the tease felt like the return of playable friends or at least Tails etc in 3D.

Gameplay reveal - I was so hyped for more boost formula, even though it was looking a little worryingly simplistic.  That good good music too.

Classic Sonic gameplay reveal - That bad music and Green Hill Zone was a real downer, as well as the fact that it seemed to be a stilted version of Generations Sonic when Mania or not - they could've made efforts to improve Classic.

Avatar reveal - Seemed completely non-offensive, especially considering it used boost gameplay as a starting point, and if I recall we discovered vocal songs were back immediately around this time.  Infinite's theme and other music reveals continued to build hype for the soundtrack.

The demo was lame, so very lame.  Super bland level design, and at this point I thought that that stages we'd seen so far were definitely the first ones, so these stages couldn't possibly be first, tutorial stages.  I became very pessimistic until launch.

Playing the full version.  Those braindeadly easy stages really were just bad tutorial stages (I was especially surprised that Space Port was the second stage of the game overall and Avatar's first).  It's definitely not the game I hoped and dreamed it would be back during the third point above, but it was good enough to tide me over.  They need to do better next time, but the game as an overall package satisfied me just fine.  The music was a huge part of it.

My biggest fear was that I would be left thirsty as fuck for modern Sonic gameplay after they dangled it in front of me with the first gameplay reveal and got me hyped for it.  I can live without it if they want to move away from it again, but don't tell me I'm getting it and then not give it to me or give me super bad content for it y'know?  The content was not Unleashed or Generations, but it was, yeah, just enough to tide me over.

[Osmium]

I was honestly done by halfway through the first teaser, when they decided to give us the ultimate middle finger with the line "But even heroes need help" and then classic's fat arse shows up. 

[speedfreak]

The original CGI trailer was nothing since you can't judge anything from it. As soon as we started seeing gameplay I was iffy on it since it looked too basic and simplified compared to Generations. Then every new piece of info that dropped did the opposite of what it was intended to do and decreased my hype substantially. Especially the revelation of the avatar and it's bad gameplay.

[Gabz Girl]

When the reveal trailer showed that Classic Sonic was going to be playable again, I was quite disappointed since I expected Tails and Knuckles. BUT then I realised that I did enjoy Generations, in fact I really liked it! So I wanted to give them a chance. After all, a Generations sequel with a more serious story and improved gameplay sounds like it could be a winner! 

Then I saw Green Hill. And Sunset Heights. And the Green Hill tag team stage. I got less and less excited due to the the poor level design and gameplay. I’m someone who enjoyed Sonic Colours too! 

I think the moment I found out how poor the story was was when Sonic Forces truly lost me though. I was hoping that at the very least I’d get some enjoyment from that but good God, they fumbled it. So yeah, that’s it really. 

[dbzfan7]

Keep it coming guys, these are really neat stories. Even if you had a happy ending and ended up being more positive to the game that's cool too. It's real cool just to know the thought process for fans of this game. Experience how someone else went through the motions. Some people turned out better it looks like, while others gave up much sooner. It's also an interesting way to see the different levels of tolerance from different fans. 

[Tarnish]

Since the past decade convinced me that Sonic Team couldn't make a Sonic game that felt to me like a Sonic game even if their lives depended on it, Forces never 'had' me to begin with.(Sonic 2006 was the last Sonic game I was genuenly excited about.)  But still, here we go:

When the reveal trailer was showed, revealing that classic Sonic is gonna be in it, I knew they were doing exactly what I was expecting from them. Namely, like dbzfan7 said as well, further convincing my belief that they think Sonic is too cool to team up with anybody else than himself anymore, thus ruling out any chance that neglected other characters would get to shine.

Then when the avatar was revealed in that god awful next trailer where physics is non existent (I mean seriously, you're telling me some wolf character that lets be generous and say weighs 100 kilogramms/200 pounds, can have ANY effect on not one but 3 GIANT robots that probably weighs numerous tons, all the while the 2 Sonics are just floating in the air?!), I knew Sonic Team officially lost it. If you value fan creations more than already established characters that has barely been explored in the last 10-15 years, to me that just shows you have no respect or at least no interest in the franchise that is in your hand.

Infinite reveal, using red cubes as super power because...cube fetish? Character design screemed fan character approach already, more ridiculous than menacing (why does he have a speaker for an ear?).

Classic Green Hill stage reveal, this is a doozy:
1: my god that noise they dare call music.
2: Green Hill...again..because no other stage ever existed in any of the Sonic games.
3: Physics, momentum...I mean the lack of it, very evident when you watch how classic Sonic moves.
4: Stage design: dash pads before every loop/curve, a sign that the physics is useless on its own. Also preventing going back on the stage.

Classic villains reveal trailer..oh look, villains they know are popular but know nothing about, and even if they did, they don't care enough to treat them with respect.

[Sonikko]

Well, let's tell this tale from the very beginning.

This is my story.

July 22nd, it's 1am over here, I'm watching the messy stream, buzz noises and complete silence while the classic Sonic silouhette shows up on the screen, Aaron shows up some clues, when all of a sudden my screen turns black.

Orange screen. SEGA, gameplay footage from old Sonic games show up and I think, yeah yeah we've done this song and dance before... "but now, as we move forward, to discover what made Sonic a gaming icon we're going back", footage rewinds faster and faster.

SEGA PROUDLY PRESENTS

In Association with

Christian Whitehead. And that's where my heart skipped a beat, I instantly thought "this is gonna be damn good". I watched the whole trailer in hype, barely containing myself, but there was a lingering thought in the back of my mind...

"Yeah this is awesome, I'm gonna throw money at them like there's no tomorrow, but... where's the new 3D game?"

And I kept watching the stream until it was 5am and Iizuka steps on the stage.

I knew something was up, when all of a sudden "This is project 2017" and I was ready to be blown away. I was so excited in that very moment that I almost screamed, but I contained myself 'cause my family was sleeping.

The trailer starts "From the team that brought you Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations", flames particles around it.

Sonic Colours really threw me off, but then I looked at the Generations logo and I thought "Well Generations is there 'cause it's the most recent iteration of the boost formula and the one that got it good, there's no way they'll go back to Colours, that logo is there just 'cause it got positive reception."

The CGI trailer starts, the city is destroyed, everything looked more serious and I was on board, that's something I've been wanting for a long time. Some focus on a story that wasn't just smoke and mirrors, jokes and crappy writing.

I'm still excited as hell.

Sonic starts moving, from the first animation I know we're looking at another boost game so I thought "it's gonna be at least decent, I have some faith in this". I mean, I knew they wouldn't screw it up. I was sure about that.

Sonic dodges obstacles, "even heroes need help", I got even more excited if possible, I thought someone was going to show up as playable, I had my hopes up for Tails, and then...

Classic Sonic.

All my hype shattered in that very moment and I couldn't help but saying out loud "WHAT, really?"

And that was my first "What, really?" this game made me say. The first one of a long list.

I was still on board, I knew from the beginning that Classic Sonic would've been the worst part of this game but I still thought "I can put up with it".

As my posts on this very forum show I was mad excited back then, I loved what I saw and I couldn't wait for some gameplay.

Then the first modern gameplay reveal happened.

I looked at it and I came to the most logical conclusion, the one everyone in the world got to: It must be the first stage, a tutorial.

But even then, it looked so uninteresting, taking a closer look, the controls felt stiff and reminiscent of Colours, it all looked so unfinished, uninspired. But I still went with it, I said, let's see what Project 2017 has to offer other than this.

Then the classic gameplay reveal came along. This is where they lost my preorder. And the second "what, really?"

And that's where they really lost me, that 11 seconds footage from the Nintendo Direct managed to shatter my hype all by itself. All my alarm bells ringed, I could tell by that 11 seconds footage that the physics system was not at work, speedboosters would've been everywhere, Sonic didn't carry momentum like he did in Generations and the whole stage looked very flat.

I expressed my thoughts and people almost yelled at me for being a hater, they told me that I couldn't judge the game going by 11 seconds of footage, that I was being unfair. And I disagreed with that, but I still waited for new footage.

Then the whole stage came along, and it cemented my already low expectations.

I thought it couldn't get any worse than that, so I was still thinking "I'll enjoy at least half of this game".

Then the avatar reveal came along with the third "what, really?". And I thought it was a bad idea, the weapons, the character itself, all of it. I knew it was gonna be bad. I knew it wasn't my cup of tea. 

Then... as more and more gameplay footage came along, and none of it managed to make me change my mind (as I knew it wouldn't, cause the things I didn't like were flawed from a design standpoint and couldn't change from stage to stage), I became less and less interested, and ultimately decided to pick up the game when it's on a 75% discout or less, 'cause it's really not worth my time or money.

[JezMM]

11 minutes ago, SaberX said:

But then, the Avatar shows up. Not only that, but later an interview with Iizuka saying that the idea came from the fanarts he received all these years...I mean, how many bad, innapropriate and weird arts he received during all this time? Sure he probably received some nice ones but...there are pretty bad and disgusting ones.

For one to accept such a terrible idea. Like...we have dozens and dozens of characters. Each one awaiting their chance to shiny and be playable and they come with an...avatar? An avatar have priority over all other characters?

By this logic they should axe all the characters because they've all had porn drawn of them.  Of course they're not talking about the adult stuff when they talk about fanart inspiring them.  It's not like you can use the editor to make Chesty the Tithog or Inflato the Balloonhog.

Also I get the frustration of wanting Sonic's friends playable again, I want them too, but I don't think this is an "instead of" thing.  They did not see the Avatar as an alternative to Sonic's friends or a way to dodge making Sonic's friends playable.  It was just a new idea.

[Tarnish]

10 minutes ago, JezMM said:

By this logic they should axe all the characters because they've all had porn drawn of them.  Of course they're not talking about the adult stuff when they talk about fanart inspiring them.  It's not like you can use the editor to make Chesty the Tithog or Inflato the Balloonhog.

Also I get the frustration of wanting Sonic's friends playable again, I want them too, but I don't think this is an "instead of" thing.  They did not see the Avatar as an alternative to Sonic's friends or a way to dodge making Sonic's friends playable.  It was just a new idea.

They have put all the effort possible into not using other characters, but still have their abilities:
Unleashed: werehog instead of Knuckles for fighting/strong character
Colors: wisps instead of Tails and Knuckles (Wisps allow flying/floating, climbing walls and digging, swimming)
Forces: Avatar instead of freaking all of the existing characters, all of them supposedly involved in a war and thus wouldn't require any forcing into the story, plus the OCs pretty much had zero interesting ideas that would warrant absolutely sticking to it.

Trust me, just like the boosting and the wisps, the OC thing will become mainstay as well. Maybe not in the next game, but it will return.

[GuyWithThePie]

Basically what @Sonikko said. Like, 100%. Are you sure we're not the same person?

[JezMM]

7 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

They have put all the effort possible to not use other characters, but still use their abilities:
Unleashed: werehog instead of Knuckles for fighting/strong character
Colors: wisps instead of Tails and Knuckles (Wisps allow flying/floating, climbing walls and digging, swimming)
Forces: Avatar instead of freaking all of the existing characters, all of them supposedly involved in a war and thus wouldn't require any forcing into the story

Trust me, just like the boosting and the wisps, the OC thing will become mainstay as well.

Werehog and Knuckles platforming is ENTIRELY different, and the Wisps played out more like timed minigames/puzzles specifically set up with the time limit in mind.  If they had put in Knuckles with acrobatics instead of climbing and gliding, or put Tails and Knuckles as temporary abilities, everyone would moan just as much, just about a slightly different thing.  These were all seperate ideas which just contain some similarities to existing characters.

Also the only existing characters who use guns or grappling hooks instead of their natural abilities are Shadow in his widely-agreed-upon worst appearance and Boom!Sonic respectively so pick your poison.

[Tarnish]

1 minute ago, JezMM said:

Werehog and Knuckles platforming is ENTIRELY different, and the Wisps played out more like timed minigames/puzzles specifically set up with the time limit in mind.  If they had put in Knuckles with acrobatics instead of climbing and gliding, or put Tails and Knuckles as temporary abilities, everyone would moan just as much.  These were seperate ideas which just contain some similarities to existing characters.

Also the only existing characters who use guns or grappling hooks instead of their natural abilities are Shadow in his widely-agreed-upon worst appearance and Boom!Sonic respectively so pick your poison.

Believe what you want, but I will forever find it disgusting that they rather made Sonic a swiss army knife of a character who can do absolutely anything to fit every situation possible, but never even attempt to play a little catch up with other main characters who they haven't explored properly for nearly a decade.

[JezMM]

8 minutes ago, SaberX said:

Pff it's not frustration. I just find stupid.

Its not like games with create your own character doesn't give you a chance to play different characters aside from your own character.

And in the end, "new idea" sounds more like an excuse. Because its not a new idea at all haha

I mean, a new idea for Sonic, lol.

It would've been cool if they could've reused some of the code from Generations' missions to make some playable levels for other characters on the cheap but eh.  At the end of the day they don't have infinite money or resources.  Or they just didn't want the game to get too cluttered with movesets and gameplay styles so it wasn't even considered, and let's be honest, it's pretty friggin' cluttered even as is.

7 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

Believe what you want, but I will forever find it disgusting that they rather made Sonic a swiss army knife of a character who can do absolutely anything to fit every situation possible, but never even attempt to play a little catch up with other main characters who they haven't explored properly for nearly a decade.

To be fair, we don't know what prototyping goes on behind the scenes before they settle on or scrap ideas, so "never even attempt" may well be a bit presumptious.  It's entirely possible that they have tried to bring other characters back in 3D before but just couldn't get them to work.  And I know the answer to that is "they should try harder" but... Sonic Team ain't exactly firing on all cylinders.  This time they made a game where 66% of the gameplay is gameplay they've already done before and they couldn't even get that right.

This post isn't really an argument against your wishes, just... a sad truth, lol.

[The Man On The Inside]

The first time we saw double boost and that song played. I hate that song, and after of years of blissful instrumental soundtracks (Sonic Runners hnngg), having a cheesy rock theme with 0/10 vocals was and is a massive step back into the 2000s. Then I reasoned that it wasn't aimed at me, and that's what Sonic Mania was/is for. When I saw that, my thinking went from "can't wait" to "hope it's not a trainwreck" (which thankfully it isn't but still not good enough).

[PandaChao]

When I saw this thing's face I knew the game was going to be garbage. The custom character, to me was seen as a way to garner attention and simply be "filler" for Sonic Forces. I see alot of people complain about classic Sonic's appearance but when I saw him it had me thinking Forces was a extension of Sonic Generations. Unfortunately, since the release of Sonic Forces we can see that was not the case. Classic Sonic was thrown in to garner attention and be filler in the same vain as the custom character. Sonic games are hardly of good quality when they throw in poorly implemented gimmicks to artificially extend game length.

Then there was this guy.

Seeing Mr McEdge face was a glimpse into how forgettable and generic the new villian will be and I was pretty much right. It was also safe to assume that the story in the game would try to be more "serious" but fail HARD, due to being poorly written and most likely incomplete.

Who thought that boosting through most of the stage with no player input was a good idea? Did they not learn from Shadow The Hedgehog? It's lazy and it's another example of how crappy the level design is in Sonic Forces. Maybe a little child might find this mechanic cool because they are watching Sonic run with their character, but for me I just see it as a terrible idea. Just pointless.

Look at what they did to "Good Sonic" from Mania. Smh.

[dbzfan7]

3 hours ago, JezMM said:

If they had put in Knuckles with acrobatics instead of climbing and gliding, or put Tails and Knuckles as temporary abilities, everyone would moan just as much, just about a slightly different thing.

Actually I disagree. If anything people would love that if there was tag actions where Knuckles and Tails temporarily help you. I mean it's not the best thing, but they are actually helping. And it's a neat way to use them rather than not at all. I mean Sonic 4 ep 2 had tag actions which were cool, so why not just expand on that slightly. Generations kinda dabbled in it as well with it's mini games. I liked those. It could also mean they'd have to be more important to the story as they help Sonic. I think the moaning would come from if they're glorified power ups, and disappear and are never seen in the story, despite helping out. I think tag actions would be a great way to have a big cast be usable while keeping the core Sonic only if they have to.

3 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Believe what you want, but I will forever find it disgusting that they rather made Sonic a swiss army knife of a character who can do absolutely anything to fit every situation possible, but never even attempt to play a little catch up with other main characters who they haven't explored properly for nearly a decade.

Yeah it really bugs me how literally the only person worth teaming up with is himself out of all the people he knows. Even Mario still had Luigi alongside Paper Mario. Sonic basically alienates his cast the more they keep making him good at everything in some way or have an answer to all situations. Meanwhile Mario takes a different approach depending on the games. In platforming he's the most balanced and best controlled, but not particularly the excelling anywhere. In RPG's he tends to be a glass canon. High attack power and speed, and bad defense. Meanwhile Luigi has high luck, defense and health. Luigi is like a super tank, especially in Paper Jam.

[Sean]

Knuckles is supposed to play as a version of Sonic with flying and gliding. Juxtaposing him onto the werehog's gameplay makes no sense.

[Sonikko]

1 hour ago, Sean said:

Knuckles is supposed to play as a version of Sonic with flying and gliding. Juxtaposing him onto the werehog's gameplay makes no sense.

That never stopped Sonic Team before, Tails is supposed to play as a version of Sonic with flying yet he's in a mech in SA2 and shoots stuff.

I'm sure they could've used Knuckles in Unleashed, or a totally new character if "Sonic's shitty friends" wasn't a thing.

[Cayenne]

When I watched the gameplay trailers. Green Hill looks boring. Park Avenue looks boring. Arsenal Pyramid looks boring. Metropolis - Capital City and Death Egg - Egg Gate aside, every level looks just inoffensive or a total snoozefest. As someone who LOVES to watch videos and play Sonic Unleashed and Generations levels, this isn't what I expect from a Sonic game.

I still want to play Forces someday (watching a gameplay isn't playing a game), buuuuuut...I'm not paying R$150,00. I'd rather spend this money on something longer and more replayable like The Elder Scrolls or Monster Hunter.

 

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, Sean said:

Knuckles is supposed to play as a version of Sonic with flying and gliding. Juxtaposing him onto the werehog's gameplay makes no sense.

He punches things and the Werehog punches things. This is the extent of the "Werehog should have been Knuckles" argument.

Whilst people may have taken more kindly to Knuckles over the silly character design that was the Werehog, it's less than half the story. The Werehog's gameplay was shallow, tedious, repetitive, slow and cheap. It wasn't even bad overall. It was just just average and forgettable beat 'em up. Unleashed's daytime gameplay was fast, exciting and showed a lot of promise. This huge contrast against what people wanted from a Sonic and the rest of Unleashed is what made the Werehog so unpopular. The Werehog's gameplay was Unleashed's death sentence. The character himself just nailed the coffin shut.

Anyway, Forces...

I was sketchy about the game from day 1. Like many others, I was really excited to see teaser trailer open. We were shown Death Egg Robots levelling a city, with fire everywhere. This was really exciting; a new 3D game and all signs pointed to it having a darker and relevant story without losing its Sonic identity. 

"But even heros need help" Oh boy, Tails and Knuckles are going to show up here! Nope.

I wish I had recorded my reaction to Classic Sonic rearing his head. My jaw dropped for the wrong reason, and I couldn't understand why they were so keen to retread Generations. I hated this aspect of the game from day 1, but I was still cautiously optimistic because of the supposed long development time and SEGA's much talked about commitment to quality. I also was intrigued about the tagline "join the resistance", not considering for a moment that it was referring to an avatar character.

Months later, we finally got footage at SXSW, along with the name and instrumental theme song. The gameplay footage of Sonic in Sunset Heights looked pretty bad. It was a complete straight line, and the Wisps were returning. Visually it looked great, but the gameplay was awful. I called it out for looking bad. The theme music was cool though. Loved that.

The next reveal was Classic Green Hill. The return of Green Hill alone was enough to really hack me off, but the music and gameplay here were even worse. It was at this point that I could say with certainty what the game was going to be like; scripted, automated, lazy, badly designed and superficial.

The reveal of the avatar kind of didn't hit as hard as it could have done, because I already knew the game wasn't going to be very good. It did anger me though that SEGA would go down this path after so long, seemingly so desperate to make their game sell by any means other than just making them better. Infinite rolled around soon after, and did the game no favors either.

Forces lost me as soon as it became obvious what the game was. That was when we started to see gameplay. But it could have lost me work the reveal of the avatar or Infinite of either those came sooner.

[Sean]

1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

That never stopped Sonic Team before, Tails is supposed to play as a version of Sonic with flying yet he's in a mech in SA2 and shoots stuff.

Yeah and that idea was just as idiotic back then as it is now.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

I'm sure they could've used Knuckles in Unleashed, or a totally new character if "Sonic's shitty friends" wasn't a thing.

You know the complaints against Werehog's gameplay wouldn't disappear even if it was Knuckles. If Knuckles or some newbie had the Werehog gameplay "Sonic's shitty friends" would just have more fuel.

[DonWaffleleven]

Forces lost me with this shit-stain right here:

From there my hype for this game plummeted like a lead weight and never climbed again.

Can't even begin to describe how much I loathed this decision. This level of stupid should be banned by the Geneva convention, it could be turned into a bomb and deployed upon a civilian population. The U.N. should put Sonic Team on trial for war crimes for developing such a nasty weapon. The only cure to the lingering radiation and 3rd degree burns would be playing Sonic 06, deadliness to counteract more deadliness!

In other words: screw you, Classic Sonic.

[Sonikko]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

Yeah and that idea was just as idiotic back then as it is now.

 

1 hour ago, Razule said:

You know the complaints against Werehog's gameplay wouldn't disappear even if it was Knuckles. If Knuckles or some newbie had the Werehog gameplay "Sonic's shitty friends" would just have more fuel.

That's not what I was implying at all lol.

[Detective Kaito]

Like a lot of people said, I was really hyped when I was first watching the trailer, but all was lost when Classic Sonic appeared. I had hope that maybe they'll bring back the Adventure gameplay style for the 3rd playable character, but that was shattered too. Oh well.