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EdsonBubsy

Sonic Forces may have destroyed the series storyline

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The storyline of Sonic from Sonic CD till Sonic Lost World may have been fully destroyed by Sonic Forces to the point that everything before Lost World is basically an alternate time line

Here are the many problems with the story in forces itself and what prominent Sega executives have "elaborated" on:

1. The first Ruby illusion you see is Chaos, although how Eggman copied Chaos is a mystery itself, why did he only do the basic form? Surely even with the phantom Ruby the chaos emeralds would actually still evolve chaos, wherever they are.

2. Sonic couldn't beat these fakes in the first cutscene but beats much worse later with basically no difference in strategy.

3. Sega Execs have said that the human world and the furry world are not the same. But then why would Eggman be there?  

4. Where did Silver come from? Why would he be on animal earth if he is from the future of the Iblis trigger?(still can't get over that) if they are going to bother with Silver they may as well have said screw it and had Blaze there to (who is either dead or in another dimension, or both), it's not like any of the other characters are playable just talking heads.

5. All character development for tails is basically erased as if it never happened.

6. They retconned generations Sonic to be from another dimension as Tails clearly recognized him as well as that Sonic recognizing him back.

7. Eggman and Infinite have definitively killed people in this game in mass, permanently. Eggman also doesn't seem to use the "animals in a robot" this time.

8. Why would Eggman bring back the death egg in universe? I know the devs did it for nostalgia but it doesn't make sense in universe (let alone him building it in 6 months)

9. Where is the Sonic CD planet? Wouldn't we be able to see it in this map?

10. The game implies the wisps, which I don't think we're explained why they were in lost world, have been turned into weapons, with even some wispons still having things like eyes on them. Where's that back story?

11. Why is knuckles the leader? He's a proven incompetent that rushes into things and is gullible, some of such traits show in game. Shadow could have been the leader, he's led teams before, is collected and calm, and has fought two different armies at the same time. Espio could have been another choice. Its clearl they purposefully didn't want it to be tails so they made him "lose it" but why would leadership default to knuckles?

I mean it's like Forces started a new timeline that ignored the other games events or just leaving things unexplained and executives at Sega have not helped with this.

Basically the next Sonic has to either be a better attempt at an 06 refresh or make Forces non-canon because as of now Sonic doesn't have a coherent story you can follow even at the most minimal degree.

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Long story short: lazy writing.

11 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

They retconned generations Sonic to be from another dimension as Tails clearly recognized him as well as that Sonic recognizing him back.

I'd say they more thank likely retconned the time travel part of the story - not the interactions between Classic and Modern characters. 

11 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Where is the Sonic CD planet? Wouldn't we be able to see it in this map?

This can be applied to any game bar Mania and Sonic 4. Also, remember the "events" regarding the moon after Sonic Adventure 2.

11 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Why would Eggman bring back the death egg in universe? I know the devs did it for nostalgia but it doesn't make sense in universe (let alone him building it in 6 months)

This line doesn't make sense?

11 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

The game implies the wisps, which I don't think we're explained why they were in lost world, have been turned into weapons, with even some wispons still having things like eyes on them. Where's that back story?

Lost World did this before Forces. Bad back then, bad now.

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39 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

3. Sega Execs have said that the human world and the furry world are not the same. But then why would Eggman be there?  

He travel between worlds like the other characters.

39 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

4. Where did Silver come from? Why would he be on animal earth if he is from the future of the Iblis trigger?(still can't get over that) if they are going to bother with Silver they may as well have said screw it and had Blaze there to (who is either dead or in another dimension, or both), it's not like any of the other characters are playable just talking heads.

Because 06 isn't canon.

40 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

5. All character development for tails is basically erased as if it never happened.

Yup

41 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

7. Eggman and Infinite have definitively killed people in this game in mass, permanently. Eggman also doesn't seem to use the "animals in a robot" this time.

That.. is a thing, yes. He's done it before.

43 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

8. Why would Eggman bring back the death egg in universe? I know the devs did it for nostalgia but it doesn't make sense in universe (let alone

Why wouldn't he?

43 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

9. Where is the Sonic CD planet? Wouldn't we be

...Little Planet only appears for one month every year. It's just not there.

44 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

10. The game implies the wisps, which I don't think we're explained why they were in lost world, have been turned into weapons, with even some wispons still having things like eyes on them. Where's

There is none.

45 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

11. Why is knuckles the leader? He's a proven incompetent that rushes into things and is gullible, some of such traits show in game. Shadow could have been the leader, he's led teams before, is

Because.. he's a classic character

45 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

I mean it's like Forces started a new timeline that ignored the other games events or just leaving things unexplained and executives at Sega have not helped

This happens every game. Sonic canon is already incoherent. We don't need a reboot, just to have ground rules established.

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1 hour ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Eggman also doesn't seem to use the "animals in a robot" this time.

That's actually a good point I hadn't even thought of. The one thing that gave Eggmans conquest any gravity was the threat of being turned into a mindless robotic slave, and it's completely absent in the one scenario where it would actually have an impact, and AFTER establishing it in Lost World! I hate this game.

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21 minutes ago, Razule said:

He travel between worlds like the other characters.

Because 06 isn't canon.

Yup

That.. is a thing, yes. He's done it before.

Why wouldn't he?

...Little Planet only appears for one month every year. It's just not there.

There is none.

Because.. he's a classic character

This happens every game. Sonic canon is already incoherent. We don't need a reboot, just to have ground rules established.

1. You're making a non-canon excuse with no evidence in any game they are traveling between world unless you think Sonic X is Canon but that's still a hole because Eggmans grandad is from the human world in X as well and X basically says Eggman is from Sonic world.

2. 06 is Canon. The time reset didn't erase silver just change the future and you still didn't explain why he's in forces

5. That's not an answer

6. CD planet appears in earth once a year we should still see it from space.

7. Which is a problem

8. This applies to the other two I mentioned.

9. For the story yes, Sonic need a reboot, you could still follow the story even with some of the holes now you basically can't because they retconned and changed to much. Considering Forces is story focused it counts. By reboot I'm not talking about gameplay btw.

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3 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

You could get up to Generations without to much struggle honestly. It's after that things just started happening. (Hey look the lost hex)(who?)

All games from Unleashed and forward are pretty much standalone games, with zero connection to the past events.

The "two worlds" argument and the "moon is always facing the unharmed side" are the best examples from Iizuka and SoJ trying to excuse their mediocre work with the canon.

There is also Tails' character butchering that began exactly in Unleashed.

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3 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

1. You're making a non-canon excuse with no evidence in any game they are traveling between world unless you think Sonic X is Canon but that's still a hole because Eggmans grandad is from the human world in X as well and X basically says Eggman is from Sonic world.

 

He's quoting an interview with Iizuka, which the man himself explains that as the reason why there are humans and anthropomorphic animals in the same worlds

 

4 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

2. 06 is Canon. The time reset didn't erase silver just change the future and you still didn't explain why he's in forces

 

No it's not, the Silver we see now is from Rivals. Just like the Blaze we see ISN'T from 06, she's from Rush.

 

7 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

5. That's not an answer

 

The Death Egg is a massive space station, which can be used to store weapons, lock up prisoners of war, and is also filled with enough weapons to invade any place at any point Eggman wishes. It's one of his biggest assets on this war, WHY would he not build it?

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3 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

1. You're making a non-canon excuse with no evidence in any game they are traveling between world unless you think Sonic X is Canon but that's still a hole because Eggmans grandad is from the human world in X as well and X basically says Eggman is from Sonic world.

That's the answer SEGA uses. There's a gate that separates the worlds that the characters travel between.

4 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

2. 06 is Canon. The time reset didn't erase silver just change the future and you still didn't explain why he's in forces

The future is different. Silver's in Forces because it was explained in the prequel comics.

6 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

5. That's not an answer

He made a Death Egg because he likes having a moon with his face on it in the sky. He'd already taken over the world, so it shows his dominance.

7 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

6. CD planet appears in earth once a year we should still see it from space.

We don't know where Little Planet goes. But if you think it's in space, you could ask this everytime space appears in the series.

 

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In defense of some of these aspects (trust me there is PLENTY to complain about Forces) but the Death Egg I don't think is ever outright stated to have been made in 6 months, the Little Planet only appears every once in a while in its canon so it makes sense for it to not always be around, and than the comics sort of explain some of the other things.

Silver came back in time to warn Knuckles who appointed himself leader of the resistance, and the Eggman robots are made with the Phantom Ruby so most of Eggman's tech could be tossed up to Ruby Illusion (including the death Egg) mind you yes Episode Shadow basically ignores the Shadow Comic and Infinite's design sorta ignores his backstory clip in Ep Shadow but still :P  At least the comic media attempted to make SOME explanations.

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Unless Sega says otherwise it what they want since it's their game 06 is cannon unless Sega says otherwise

 

 

and little planet is almost always gone for it's time hopping through the year

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15 minutes ago, Korke said:

All games from Unleashed and forward are pretty much standalone games, with zero connection to the past events.

The "two worlds" argument and the "moon is always facing the unharmed side" are the best examples from Iizuka and SoJ trying to excuse their mediocre work with the canon.

There is also Tails' character butchering that began exactly in Unleashed.

Eh Tails still does stuff in unleashed.

As for plot after unleashed I can see unleashed yeah colors, gen are different enough but I thought Sonic team attempted to connect colors and lost world together? (Also Sonic 4 was a sequel to 3.)

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Another ideas to consider:
Eggman just make Infinite disappear, even though he is an actual character and not an illusion. 

Eggman didn´t conquer the entire world, only South Island.

Infinite was able to make an illusion (=reality) of falling sun for Sonic and co. after "3 days deadline" and Death Egg (one of the power supplies) destroyed. That´s just illogical if the Phantom Ruby Infinite had was much better than the Avatar´s.

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13 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

He's quoting an interview with Iizuka, which the man himself explains that as the reason why there are humans and anthropomorphic animals in the same worlds

 

No it's not, the Silver we see now is from Rivals. Just like the Blaze we see ISN'T from 06, she's from Rush.

 

The Death Egg is a massive space station, which can be used to store weapons, lock up prisoners of war, and is also filled with enough weapons to invade any place at any point Eggman wishes. It's one of his biggest assets on this war, WHY would he not build it?

You are saying games officially non Canon are now Canon?

If silver is from rivals than Rouge should be flirting with Shadow and Eggman Nega would be involved. But rouge started switching from Knuckles to Shadow in 06 after hints on shadow the hedgehog.

Blaze hasn't been in a main game since 06. 

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3 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Another ideas to consider:
Eggman just make Infinite disappear, even though he is an actual character and not an illusion. 

Eggman didn´t conquer the entire world, only South Island.

Infinite was able to make an illusion (=reality) of falling sun for Sonic and co. after "3 days deadline" and Death Egg (one of the power supplies) destroyed. That´s just illogical if the Phantom Ruby Infinite had was much better than the Avatar´s.

Phantom Ruby has a dynamic plot point surrounding it. They already said the Ruby was infinite but then changed it to the death egg powering it, but infinite still almost killed everyone.

Also eggman "killing" him makes no sense as he's the most competent Ally he has ever had but this plot though...

1 minute ago, Ratcicle King said:

Uhhh

latest?cb=20160704112759

Ok so another plot hole 

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also izzuka never said "gate" and since the animal/human world excuse places Eggman from the animal world then that excuse would retcon shadow the Hedgehog/adventure 2 out of the timeline.

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6 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

If silver is from rivals than Rouge should be flirting with Shadow and Eggman Nega would be involved. But rouge started switching from Knuckles to Shadow in 06 after hints on shadow the hedgehog.

No..? Silver is from Sonic Rivals, that's his canon first appearance.

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1 minute ago, EdsonBubsy said:

also izzuka never said "gate" and since the animal/human world excuse places Eggman from the animal world then that excuse would retcon shadow the Hedgehog/adventure 2 out of the timeline.

He travels between worlds. The gate thing is written in the Sonic bible.

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