Sonic Forces may have destroyed the series storyline

[Meta77]

When have humans been from another dimension. It's a giant planet some mat just live in certain sectors. Eggman doesn't much ever seem to care avmbout harrading them only animals

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

2 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Colors DS isn't Canon.

I get the feeling you only regard it as such since it nullifies your argument.

And it isn't just in Colors DS anyway that does so.

2 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Also why would reversing inlis erase the future? It's still there just no iblis

For someone who cares so deeply for 06, you seem to have forgotten that Iblis is the reason for Silver's ruined future in 06. Removing him from the picture before he even existed obviously eliminated that particular future.

2 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

 

As for Rush and Rivals the conflict with each other due to Eggman Nega, who is from another dimension in rish and from the future in rivals.

Ignoring that Rush came before 06, so if anything the conflict would be 06 which it rightfully got treated as such. no there is no conflict. Even without the confirmation that it's Eggman's descendant from the future who dimension-hops it could've easily been hand-waved by claiming their are multiple Eggman NEGAs.

Which leaves that assertion of yours easily taken care of.

[Razule]

11 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

When have humans been from another dimension. It's a giant planet some mat just live in certain sectors. Eggman doesn't much ever seem to care avmbout harrading them only animals

Quote

It used to be that Eggman was the sole human. Starting with Sonic Adventure, we're seeing more and more humans show up in the stories. Where are they all coming from?

Iizuka: The world that Sonic lives in and the world the humans live in are separate worlds. But, some of the canon games do have Sonic and humans together, and part of that is based on what world is being portrayed when the game is developed. There are kind of different worlds that do exist and sometimes there's some crossover.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2017/06/10/more-burning-questions-about-the-sonic-the-hedgehog-franchise-answered.aspx

[Meta77]

So there are different Sonics like dcs multiverse

[Almar]

That was never mentioned anywhere before Forces.

[Razule]

13 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

So there are different Sonics like dcs multiverse

No, the characters travel between worlds. Except Classic Sonic, which is a different Sonic.

 

6 minutes ago, Almar said:

That was never mentioned anywhere before Forces.

Indeed, but as has been established, this is currently the canon and has been since Colors at the least.

[EdsonBubsy]

28 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

I get the feeling you only regard it as such since it nullifies your argument.

And it isn't just in Colors DS anyway that does so.

For someone who cares so deeply for 06, you seem to have forgotten that Iblis is the reason for Silver's ruined future in 06. Removing him from the picture before he even existed obviously eliminated that particular future.

Ignoring that Rush came before 06, so if anything the conflict would be 06 which it rightfully got treated as such. no there is no conflict. Even without the confirmation that it's Eggman's descendant from the future who dimension-hops it could've easily been hand-waved by claiming their are multiple Eggman NEGAs.

Which leaves that assertion of yours easily taken care of.

if you read the rest of the post you would see it doesn't nullify anything and considering console colors is actually official canon this seems more like you grasping for straws.

I haven't forgotten anything, I already addressed the time reset. The issue is you aren't using any logic. Why would Silver and Blaze vanish in the time reset instead of just living in a new future like EVERY OTHER CHARATCER THAT WAS EFFECTED BY IBLIS.? It seems more like you are trying to create some scenario so your argument seems valid.

But it wasn't claimed there were multiple negas, your what ifs aren't in a CANON that sega is lazy or not TRYING to connect together. Rush coming out of 06 does not remove 06 from canon. However the contradiction with rivals does make new questions for Rush.

Which leaves you with a messy post.

 

1 hour ago, Razule said:

It's not too late though.. not like they're above changing things out of the blue.

I'd be interesting if the next big Sonic game 7 years from now (apparently Sonic Forces is crashing in sales according to the internet) tried to tie everything together. it would likely be quite an entertaining game in how attempt to connect things together.

[Diogenes]

3 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

I haven't forgotten anything, I already addressed the time reset. The issue is you aren't using any logic. Why would Silver and Blaze vanish in the time reset instead of just living in a new future like EVERY OTHER CHARATCER THAT WAS EFFECTED BY IBLIS.? It seems more like you are trying to create some scenario so your argument seems valid.

Most of the cast was already born before the failed Solaris experiment, and even those that weren't were never recognizably affected by it or anything related to it before the "present" of '06, so any butterfly effect changes to them would probably be pretty minor. Silver and '06 Blaze (assuming she's even native to the ruined future) were born about 200 years after, basically, the apocalypse. Removing that apocalypse would change the timeline so radically that it's unlikely that anyone even resembling them would be born.

[EdsonBubsy]

11 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Most of the cast was already born before the failed Solaris experiment, and even those that weren't were never recognizably affected by it or anything related to it before the "present" of '06, so any butterfly effect changes to them would probably be pretty minor. Silver and '06 Blaze (assuming she's even native to the ruined future) were born about 200 years after, basically, the apocalypse. Removing that apocalypse would change the timeline so radically that it's unlikely that anyone even resembling them would be born.

The parents wouldn't change you do realize that right?

Not to mention Silver already knowing about certain things that occurred in the past before he was born in between then and first day of doomsday. The only thing that would change between that point would be the gradual take over of the planet.

[Diogenes]

Just now, EdsonBubsy said:

The parents wouldn't change you do realize that right?

Why wouldn't they? They'd be born into and grow up in a world that wasn't eternally on fire. That would radically change the course of their lives compared to the original timeline, to the point where they might never even meet each other. There's not even a guarantee that Silver's parents would even exist, because of how different things would be for their parents, and even a few more generations back like that.

And even if Silver's parents did still exist, did still meet, and did still have a child together, it's vanishingly unlikely that their kid would be Silver. It's a fresh roll of the genetic dice and an entirely different childhood from the Silver we know.

[Razule]

6 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

The parents wouldn't change you do realize that right?

Not to mention Silver already knowing about certain things that occurred in the past before he was born in between then and first day of doomsday. The only thing that would change between that point would be the gradual take over of the planet.

Realistically the future would be so drastically changed that Silver's very distant ancestors would probably have never met. If I went back in time and, say, stopped the Americas from being colonized, I'm sure the majority of people today that live in these places wouldn't exist.

Look, this time travel thing never really made much sense to begin with. 06 is confusing in general. Blaze shouldn't have been there. Here's what we do know:

• 06 was erased from the timeline and the future was radically changed, but somehow resulted in Silver's continued existence.
• Blaze is from another dimension. Rush is canon.
• Silver is from the future. Rivals is canon.

[EdsonBubsy]

7 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Why wouldn't they? They'd be born into and grow up in a world that wasn't eternally on fire. That would radically change the course of their lives compared to the original timeline, to the point where they might never even meet each other. There's not even a guarantee that Silver's parents would even exist, because of how different things would be for their parents, and even a few more generations back like that.

And even if Silver's parents did still exist, did still meet, and did still have a child together, it's vanishingly unlikely that their kid would be Silver. It's a fresh roll of the genetic dice and an entirely different childhood from the Silver we know.

Catastrophies won't change the Genesis and you forget we are talking about a Sonic game.

As we would need the time of when the world actually got taken over. If it was after the parents were alive that makes a big difference. The game hinted the full take over was gradual.

3 minutes ago, Razule said:

Realistically the future would be so drastically changed that Silver's very distant ancestors would probably have never met. If I went back in time and, say, stopped the Americas from being colonized, I'm sure the majority of people today that live in these places wouldn't exist.

Look, this time travel thing never really made much sense to begin with. 06 is confusing in general. Blaze shouldn't have been there. Here's what we do know:

• 06 was erased from the timeline and the future was radically changed, but somehow resulted in Silver's continued existence.
• Blaze is from another dimension. Rush is canon.
• Silver is from the future. Rivals is canon.

That example is terrible and again without a time frame we can't say but if we went all in on the game making the Iblis take over seem as if it was much later there wouldn't be much of a difference.

I've already went over the rivals/rush plot hole. Nega ruins that quite a bit, but Blaze being in 06 already does that.

Infact since Blaze is from the future it proves my point he still existed after the reset so....

[Diogenes]

I don't even know what point you're trying to make now. Why should it matter how fast or slow things happen? If your parents met at a certain restaurant, and I go back in time 10 years before they met, why should it matter if I buy the restaurant and slowly run it into the ground over the course of 10 years before demolishing it or if I just blow it up immediately? If the restaurant's gone, regardless of methods or speed, your parents couldn't have met there, and thus there's no guarantee that you'd exist.

[Razule]

4 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Catastrophies won't change the Genesis and you forget we are talking about a Sonic game.

As we would need the time of when the world actually got taken over. If it was after the parents were alive that makes a big difference. The game hinted the full take over was gradual.

That example is terrible and again without a time frame we can't say but if we went all in on the game making the Iblis take over seem as if it was much later there wouldn't be much of a difference.

I've already went over the rivals/rush plot hole. Nega ruins that quite a bit, but Blaze being in 06 already does that.

Infact since Blaze is from the future it proves my point he still existed after the reset so....

Silver lives 200 years in the future of Sonic's world. Silver's parents were not born when Soleanna was set alit with flames. Neither his grandparents, or their parents.

[Multikaris]

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Ok, what's so bad about this game (maybe except Classic Sonic from another dimension).

Lack of Humans? They off camera, like Mobians, were in Unleashed (Two Worlds thing doesn't really matter)

Why is Silver here? Read the comics

Wisps? After 4 games of them, it's clear they here to stay. Apparently, some moved from their planet to maybe-Mobius.

 

Wisps were always shown as prisoners on whatever planet they ended up on. The mobile game Runners didn’t even explain how Wisps got to Lost Hex, except as prisoners of Eggman.

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Ok, what's so bad about this game (maybe except Classic Sonic from another dimension).

Lack of Humans? They off camera, like Mobians, were in Unleashed (Two Worlds thing doesn't really matter)

Why is Silver here? Read the comics

Wisps? After 4 games of them, it's clear they here to stay. Apparently, some moved from their planet to maybe-Mobius.

 

Wisps were always shown as prisoners on whatever planet they ended up on. The mobile game Runners didn’t even explain how Wisps got to Lost Hex, except as prisoners of Eggman.

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Ok, what's so bad about this game (maybe except Classic Sonic from another dimension).

Lack of Humans? They off camera, like Mobians, were in Unleashed (Two Worlds thing doesn't really matter)

Why is Silver here? Read the comics

Wisps? After 4 games of them, it's clear they here to stay. Apparently, some moved from their planet to maybe-Mobius.

 

Wisps were always shown as prisoners on whatever planet they ended up on. The mobile game Runners didn’t even explain how Wisps got to Lost Hex, except as prisoners of Eggman.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

5 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

if you read the rest of the post you would see it doesn't nullify anything

I'm not seeing it. Which part allegedly negates such?

 

5 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

But it wasn't claimed there were multiple negas

Because it didn't need to be. It's already been confirmed that the Eggman NEGA from both Rush and the Rivals series is Eggman's descendant.

5 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

I haven't forgotten anything, I already addressed the time reset. The issue is you aren't using any logic. Why would Silver and Blaze vanish in the time reset instead of just living in a new future like EVERY OTHER CHARATCER THAT WAS EFFECTED BY IBLIS.? It seems more like you are trying to create some scenario so your argument seems valid.

Neither of them vanished. I don't even get what you're saying now. What matters is the Silver that shows up currently is one who doesn't have to deal with Iblis being the ruiner of his city. Regardless of whatever happened to the Blaze in the 06 when she sealed herself in another dimension (hell for all we know she lost her memory and became canon Blaze, whatever), the Blaze we know from Rush is still canon.

If you're trying to argue that their continued existence is somehow a blight because it spits in the face of 06, well good luck. :U

5 hours ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Rush coming out of 06 does not remove 06 from canon.

I think you mean before  not  of. Not that I even suggested that to begin with, so I'll kindly ask that you not try and purposefully misconstrue my words to serve your purpose.

[EdsonBubsy]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

Silver lives 200 years in the future of Sonic's world. Silver's parents were not born when Soleanna was set alit with flames. Neither his grandparents, or their parents.

We don't know when Soleana went up in flames or whether silver is from it we know that Silver talks about the world being consumes not far from his birth as people were trying to fight and the fighting could have started when the parents were kids.

You are trying way to hard to block the very possibility that Silver would have been the same even without iblis.

Which is interesting since the current silver is from the future and it's very unlikely the current silver is different.

56 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

I'm not seeing it. Which part allegedly negates such?

 

Because it didn't need to be. It's already been confirmed that the Eggman NEGA from both Rush and the Rivals series is Eggman's descendant.

Neither of them vanished. I don't even get what you're saying now. What matters is the Silver that shows up currently is one who doesn't have to deal with Iblis being the ruiner of his city. Regardless of whatever happened to the Blaze in the 06 when she sealed herself in another dimension (hell for all we know she lost her memory and became canon Blaze, whatever), the Blaze we know from Rush is still canon.

If you're trying to argue that their continued existence is somehow a blight because it spits in the face of 06, well good luck. :U

I think you mean before  not  from. Not that I even suggested that to begin with, so I'll kindly ask that you not try and purposefully misconstrue my words to serve your purpose.

Eggman Nega can't be from an alternate dimension and be from the future at the same time if he's the same person, not to mention the gun ships in rush.

Why would I write "06 before Canon"? It was "of" that needed to be replaced by "before" not sure what sentence you're trying to make here.

But nothing changes, as I said, rush being before 06 doesn't remove 06 from Canon. (Granted timeline wise rush is after 06) and Rush is already a plot hole. As I said the story is full of unexplained holes 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

43 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Why would I write "06 before Canon"? It was "of" that needed to be replaced by "before" not sure what sentence you're trying to make here.

 

1 hour ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

think you mean before  not  of. Not that I even suggested that to begin with, so I'll kindly ask that you not try and purposefully misconstrue my words to serve your purpose.

I think you missed this while you were editing your post so that your last three paragraphs weren't inserted in my post you quoted.  :U

43 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Eggman Nega can't be from an alternate dimension and be from the future at the same time if he's the same person, not to mention the gun ships in rush.

Considering the canon explanation is that in truth he's from some point in the future and also infiltrated Blaze's dimension,  you haven't done a good job explaining why that's impossible. 

43 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

But nothing changes, as I said, rush being before 06 doesn't remove 06 from Canon

 Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said Rush makes 06 non-canon (06 wiped itself from the time line anyway).

[Razule]

40 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

1 hour ago, Razule said:

 

We don't know when Soleana went up in flames or whether silver is from it we know that Silver talks about the world being consumes not far from his birth as people were trying to fight and the fighting could have started when the parents were kids.

You are trying way to hard to block the very possibility that Silver would have been the same even without iblis.

Which is interesting since the current silver is from the future and it's very unlikely the current silver is different.

And it's heavily implied it happened shortly after Elise died.. Silver just says the planet was devastated before he was born, not "not far", just before. And the most logical time for Iblis to have appeared is after Elise died aboard the Egg Carrier.

Current Silver is different though. The future isn't in ruins for one.

[Diogenes]

31 minutes ago, EdsonBubsy said:

We don't know when Soleana went up in flames

Yes we do. It's when Elise died when Eggman's ship went down. That's when Iblis was released.

[Slashy]

Why not have Amy be the leader? She had experience leading a team in Sonic Heroes. She has experience rallying others to her cause as seen with E-102, Shadow, and Silver. In this very game she does more of the mission control work than Knuckles.

[Pengi]

11 hours ago, JaidynReiman said:

2.) Sonic Adventure > Sonic Adventure 2 > Sonic Heroes > Shadow the Hedgehog

This is the longest story arc in the series, and even then its VERY loose overall. The only major connections are Sonic Adventure 2 > Shadow the Hedgehog. Sonic Adventure is only loosely alluded to in SA2, and even then it doesn't make any sense; Tails is given the Chaos Emerald for saving Station Square (ok), but the city got obliterated after the fact ANYWAY. The dialogue in SA2 does not mention this.

Sonic Heroes' only SA2 connection is Shadow. Otherwise, the connection might as well not even exist.

 

There's a subtle connection between SA1 and SH. In SH, when Team Rose rescue Froggy and Chocola, Metal Sonic says "Chaos data has been copied". In SA1 Froggy had Chaos' tail. Presumably, Metal Sonic was able to use residual Chaos traces left on Froggy along with ordinary Chao data to replicate Chaos' data.

 

Quote

Following Emerl's destruction in Battle, Eggman rebuilds him as Gemerl (or G-Mel?)

 

In the Japanese strategy guide his name is spelled G-merl, with a hyphen and lower case "m".

[Dr. Detective]

I was expecting some new Earth shattering revelation when I read the title but this seems to be reiterating a lot of the nonsense we've already known up to this point. Most of this is self-contained to Forces though. I'm not really sure how Eggman using the Phantom Ruby to copy Chaos in his base form destroys the series storyline. Or why it matters honestly.

[EdsonBubsy]

Actually in Silvers story it's implied iblis took over quite a bit afterward.

As for Emerl he kind of screws the plot to unless, as I said, gun sent him through the portal to kill Sonic, which doesn't make sense 

[Razule]

1 hour ago, EdsonBubsy said:

Actually in Silvers story it's implied iblis took over quite a bit afterward.

As for Emerl he kind of screws the plot to unless, as I said, gun sent him through the portal to kill Sonic, which doesn't make sense 

Emerl was found by Eggman, taken to a lab, and then thrown away.