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Dee Dude

Sonic Forces: The War Of Wasted Opportunities.

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Sonic mothereffing Forces...

What can I say? It’s mixed as hell, some despise it, some enjoy it, most are eh about it.

But this isn’t another thread regarding it’s quality, impact, sales, gameplay etc since I’ve already seen people making their points about the game over and over again.

We’re here to discuss about the overall story, tone, presentation, and concepts about the game that were poorly executed, had wasted potential, and overall could’ve been better.

Not to mention certain false advertisement. coughcoughChaosShadowcoughcough

I know how some of you want to go and snark on how “being a good game” was a wasted opportunity but let’s not make cheap jabs at the game please. 

I’ve created this because many of us including the ones who like the game all pretty much agree that a lot of elements in Forces have been delivered pretty badly and while some obvious good things were done. It just wasn’t enough and ended up not horrible, just disappointing.

So we’re here to only talk about what could’ve been fixed and rewritten regarding story, worldbuilding, characters, backstory, dialogue etc.

WARNING: Untagged Spoilers will be allowed here.

Let’s begin.

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7 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

I'm not going into too much detail here as everyone on the forum pretty much has spoken about it but Eggman and the world taken over in his image was neglected extremely here. Eggman is strangely very dull and so is his world. 

Nah, he was gonna make a better world in his image

Spoiler

After he destroyed this one with his sun. He said so himself.

He already took this one over too.

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Outside of the city and green hill, the world didn't seem to be any worse than it usually was after being controlled by Eggman for months. I had even forgotten while I was playing that Eggman had taken over the world. Unleashed managed to show off how Eggman's plan can affect the planet, but the game where he finally wins can't? Eggman's rule was just pathetic, what exactly was stopping eggman from building Eggmanland? He was supposedly in control of 99% of the planet,  and he had the phantom ruby along with an army of death egg robos.

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Sonic's friends, while having a part in the story, were still pushed to the sidelines in favor of the two Sonics and the Avatar. The fact that the three of them get more done in a few days than the Resistance did in 6 months is somewhat baffling and doesn't help with the misuse of the extended cast. Doesn't help that characters like Omega and Rouge really only do anything important in the end (with Omega appearing inexplicably) and it's implied that Rouge and Shadow could've helped much earlier on, yet they didn't help with much. 

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13 minutes ago, Mister X said:

I really don't like anything about this game's story/tone/etc., but the biggest one, easily, has to do with how the scenario of Eggman finally taking over the world was handled. I've mentioned this a few times in other threads, so I'm probably just being redundant at this point. But still, I think they really wasted an opportunity here. 

Eggman is my favorite Sanic character. He's got a fun design and an evil, yet charming and over the top personality. 

Image result for sonic colors eggman gif

Look at this dude.

I think that Sonic Team kind of sucked most of the life out of all of the characters in their attempt to make a "dark" and "serious" Sonic plot. Occasionally there's some personality there, and Sonic himself is actually pretty decently-written sometimes, but overall everyone just seems kind of generic. Including good ol' Robotonic. He does his usual gloating and scheming but most of the time he's just kind of... bland. And a think a major reason for that is that everything to do with him in this game -- from the enemies to the levels -- is boring as shit.

Eggman is obviously a narcissistic bastard. He puts his face on a Death Star, he builds massive armies of robots that look like him, he builds statues of himself, he puts his fucking logo on everything -- the guy is completely in love with himself. And that's a big part of why he's such a fun, likable character. In Unleashed, Eggman finally achieves his dream of building his robotic dystopia of Eggmanland, and with its cyberpunk theme park aesthetic it represents Eggman pretty well, I think. It's an automated, polluted, trap-filled hell on earth... but it has amusement rides and Eggman's face plastered all over. Malicious but fun.

So Unleashed was pretty much the closest thing to "Eggman wins" in the games until Forces, where Eggman has succeeded in building an entire global Eggman Empire. But it's just dull. The Badniks themselves are boring -- gone are the Egg Pawns and Egg Robos, make way for whatever the fuck the new enemies are called, who are really lacking in the personality department. All of his bases are generic factories. The Death Egg is back... but it's literally just the same as Generations. No new twist to show that, hey, Eggman's actually achieved total victory this time. Etc. etc. There's really nothing that says "Eggman has won". Could've had something unique like a giant Eggman-shaped monument to take down in the end. Or Egg Pawns patrolling the streets to make sure people are loyal to Lord Eggman, or telescreens blaring propaganda (like that silly Eggman Empire promo video, or maybe something like the PA announcements in Colors?). Or... nah, fuck it, have generic dystopia world instead. 

The games (thankfully) aren't SatAM. Eggman ruling the world is not the status quo, and Forces is the one time where he's actually done it. But nothing about it is memorable or unique. Nothing leaves an impression in the same way that, for instance, an amusement park in space with six planets chained to it does, or a circus/factory city from hell does, or the way a giant fleet of sea life-themed airships does. It doesn't even feel like he's actually won.

Anyway, that's that. There's probably more I could add (both about Eggman and the rest of the story), but I'm tired and this post is already embarrassingly long-winded as it is.

That’s where nostalgia and continuity could actually help. Bring back a ton of old bases, not just one.

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17 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Sonic's friends were pushed to the sidelines in favor a random civilian. The fact that said civilian and the two Sonics get more done in around a few days than the Resitance did in 6 months is somewhat baffling. Doesn't help that characters like Omega and Rouge really only show in the end and it's implied that the latter and Shadow could've helped much earlier on.

Outside of fighting Infinity Jackal (and lose), destroy the sun and possibly..."possibly"...freeing Sonic, what exactly did the Avatar do?

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Just now, StaticMania said:

Outside of fighting Infinity Jackal (and lose), destroy the sun and possibly..."possibly"...freeing Sonic, what exactly did the Avatar do?

Not really sure but apparently he was more important than most of Sonic's friends.

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58 minutes ago, A hyper KING heavy engine said:

Nah, he was gonna make a better world in his image

  Hide contents

After he destroyed this one with his sun. He said so himself.

He already took this one over too.

Eggman: How can I take over the city and build the Eggman Empire if there is no city!

Eggman knowingly trying to kill the world has never happened in any game before this one. And Sonic Forces shows little signs of Eggman's rule around the world.

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12 minutes ago, Razule said:

But, didn't he want to destroy the city in Adventure?

Yes, that was his whole plan after all, using Chaos to destroy cities so he could rebuild in his image.

Even the sun idea isn't that far-fetched when you take into account that the phantom ruby can seemingly pick and choose who's effected by it's power. It's not unreasonable to assume Infinite could've made the illusion not effect Eggman and his empire.

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43 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

So this begs the question: Where was the real Chaos? He's supposed to show up during times of great crisis, and I think Eggman conquering the world fits that criteria!

That was always just an excuse for him to randomly pop up in Battle. It doesn't even really make any sense, what other times of crisis would he have appeared for Knuckles to know that? And taking that seriously, he still isn't necessarily a good guy, he just shows up at a volcano and fights you because.. reasons?

As far as SEGA's concerned, I don't think Chaos gives one flying frick about the planet(s), or at least no more than any other character SEGA doesn't care about/doesn't feel like using at the moment.

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8 hours ago, Mister X said:

I really don't like anything about this game's story/tone/etc., but my biggest gripe, easily, has to do with how the scenario of Eggman finally taking over the world was handled. I've mentioned this a few times in other threads, so I'm probably just being redundant at this point. But still, I think they really wasted an opportunity here. 

Eggman is my favorite Sanic character. He's got a fun design and an evil, yet charming and over the top personality. 

Image result for sonic colors eggman gif

Look at this dude.

I think that Sonic Team kind of sucked most of the life out of all of the characters in their attempt to make a "dark" and "serious" Sonic plot. Occasionally there's some personality there, and Sonic himself is actually pretty decently-written sometimes, but overall everyone just seems kind of generic. Including good ol' Robotonic. He does his usual gloating and scheming but most of the time he's just kind of... bland. And a think a major reason for that is that everything to do with him in this game -- from the enemies to the levels -- is boring as shit.

Eggman is obviously a narcissistic bastard. He puts his face on a Death Star, he builds massive armies of robots that look like him, he builds statues of himself, he puts his fucking logo on everything -- the guy is completely in love with himself. And that's a big part of why he's such a fun, likable character. In Unleashed, Eggman finally achieves his dream of building his robotic dystopia of Eggmanland, and with its cyberpunk-ish theme park aesthetic it represents Eggman pretty well, I think. It's an automated, polluted, trap-filled hell on earth... but it has amusement rides and Eggman's face plastered all over. Malicious but fun.

So Unleashed was pretty much the closest thing to "Eggman wins" in the games until Forces, where Eggman has succeeded in building an entire global Eggman Empire. But it's just dull. The Badniks themselves are boring -- gone are the Egg Pawns and Egg Robos, make way for whatever the fuck the new enemies are called, who are really lacking in the personality department. All of his bases are generic factories. The Death Egg is back... but it's literally just the same as Generations. No new twist to show that, hey, Eggman's actually achieved total victory this time. Etc. etc. There's really nothing that says "Eggman has won". Could've had something unique like a giant Eggman-shaped monument to take down in the end. Or Egg Pawns patrolling the streets to make sure people are loyal to Lord Eggman, or telescreens blaring propaganda (like that silly Eggman Empire promo video, or maybe something like the PA announcements in Colors?). Or... nah, fuck it, have generic dystopia world instead. 

The games (thankfully) aren't SatAM. Eggman ruling the world is not the status quo, and Forces is the one time where he's actually done it. But nothing about it is memorable or unique. Nothing leaves an impression in the same way that, for instance, an amusement park in space with six planets chained to it does, or a circus/factory city from hell does, or the way a giant fleet of sea life-themed airships does. It doesn't even feel like he's actually won.

Anyway, that's that. There's probably more I could add (both about Eggman and the rest of the story), but I'm tired and this post is already embarrassingly long-winded as it is.

Damn you took the words right out of my mouth. Thats the one thing that makes the level aesthetics in Forces so bland. For a game story which selling point is that Dr Eggman has finally won it doesn't really show it in the levels. Sure there is burning buildings but none of that screams Eggman. I think the writers of this story clearly forgotten this one  important thing about Eggman.

HE

HAS 

AN

EGO

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19 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Sonic's friends, while having a part in the story, were still pushed to the sidelines in favor of the two Sonics and the Avatar. The fact that the three of them get more done in a few days than the Resistance did in 6 months is somewhat baffling and doesn't help with the misuse of the extended cast. Doesn't help that characters like Omega and Rouge really only show in the end and it's implied that the latter and Shadow could've helped much earlier on. 

Classic Sonic does nothing. He has like one interaction with Sonic. The whole entire time tails is talking to him

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21 hours ago, Mister X said:

or telescreens blaring propaganda (like that silly Eggman Empire promo video, or maybe something like the PA announcements in Colors?).

I really like this idea. The PA announcements in Colors were very amusing and added a lot of character to the game (really helped sell the fact that you're in Eggman's amusement park). I think that would have gone a long way in making Forces actually feel like Eggman has a global presence. Because as it stands, he feels about as relevant as he does in literally any other Sonic game

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There’s some really good mentions here like Tails being a weak, whiny baby and Chaos being a waste of space (and really cool looking character model, wtf? T_T), but my answer would have to be Infinite and his ridiculously underdeveloped waste of a backstory. 

When I first saw his design, I thought it looked ridiculous, like they were trying WAY too hard to be edgy and cool. The theme song made me roll my eyes. But the more I saw of him in cutscenes, the more I...started to like him? Was it the voice maybe? His Phantom Ruby powers? I dunno, but I thought he was really cool and couldn’t wait to see the final boss fight against hi—

oh

wait

There wasn’t one. Well, there was but it was very anti climactic and Infinite simply vanished into thin air. Well, okay. At least we’ve got the Shadow DLC and digital comic to look forward to. Surely we’ll find out what the deal is with him there? LOL

First off, the digital comic is the only place where you can see his actual design and it turns out he’s a jackal who leads a merc group of other jackals. His design is really cool and the fact that he’s already a bad guy makes things a little more interesting when he decides to join Dr Eggman. ...Except the reason why he does so is incredibly weak.

Then again it’s not as weak, or should I say hilariously bad, as the reason for why he became Infinite the Phantom Ruby jackal mutant. Shadow defeated his merc squad, Infinite tried to beat Shadow but got his ass kicked, Shadow called him weak and...

Infinite whines and cries like a baby, decides to merge with the Phantom Ruby to become more powerful (because he's not WEAK amirite??) and wears a mask to hide his sad, sad face that got hurt by that meanie Shadow. And that’s where his interactions with Shadow end too! They never talk or see each other again in Sonic Forces. WTF.

They really botched up what could’ve been a decent villain, but in the end Infinite ended up being no better than Mephiles.

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On 11/20/2017 at 7:45 PM, Miragnarok said:

Remember when it was implied Knuckles was a spy for Eggman back in Mania? That’s one thing they forgot too. So many forgotten plot threads! 

 Not bringing up what was at best,  an implication, which took place exclusive to Mania is not one of the legit things to call a forgotten plot thread for this game. 

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On 11/20/2017 at 6:27 PM, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Tails is an absolute waste in this game. It's insane how wasted he is really.

Tails has been consistently mishandled since Colours, with the writers of each game retrospectively not having any fucking clue what way to take the character, how to make him likeable, how to have him be more than just Sonic's sidekick/genius. Colours has him cracking random jokes with Sonic that get annoying quickly, but he isn't that bad, Generations has him completely lost after three stages in which case he only exists to do exposition about the story.

Lost World completely mishandles and flanderizes him into an unlikeable, jealous, whiner who does nothing but pick completely stupid fights over the course of the game when he knows full well that his friends are about to die, and they all need to work together to stop the Zeti. This destroyed him in my eyes, and that's not good when he was my favourite in the series before this point.

Boom is a different series so I won't mention it here.

Forces was the perfect chance to develop Tails and finally bring back a characterisation that was improved and developed from his original one. It was practically gift-wrapped to them. His best friend and brother dies, and Eggman is now on a war-path across the planet. This is the perfect time for Tails to join with Knuckles and found the resistance, possibly as a way to keep Sonic's legacy afloat. Show Tails fighting enemies on his own, show him dealing with the supposed loss of his best friend and brother, just develop him in a decent, likeable way for goodness sake.

But nope, Tails is turned into a Sonic obsessed sidekick who can't do anything on his own, can't fight Egg Pawns while Charmy can, can't fight Chaos 0 despite fighting multiple stronger forms of him before, and on top of that, only exists in the story to shoehorn in Classic Sonic, have Tails do nothing for six months, have Tails do nothing in the story other than exposition and trying (empathsis on try) to have a snarky rivalry with Eggman which basically boil down to extremely weak "im a better scientist than you". What the fuck are they doing with Tails?

Simple. Giving Sonic someone to talk to, to explain the plot and exposition, and to be a damsel for Sonic to save for extra hero points. Other than that, they really seem to have absolutely no interest in him at all. It's actually making me miss the days of the sidekick of the week as then they actually try to make the sidekicks interesting. Whether it's Sharla, Chip, Caliburn/Merlina, etc. Though they don't really try to make his newest and favourite sidekick Classic Sonic interesting. Or maybe they just want Sonic to always team up with Classic Sonic because "Friends are for looooooseeers!"

On 11/20/2017 at 9:18 PM, Forte-Metallix said:

Chaos shows up for two cutscenes, and then Classic Sonic boops him on the noggin, one-shotting him. IN A CUTSCENE. All that buildup and hype over a beloved character returning, and it ends up being a glorified cameo. Chaos contributed nothing to this story. Heck, it wasn't even the real Chaos- just an illusion conjured up by Infinite just like the other three villains.

Sure he did. He made Tails look like a wittle bitch, and made Classic Sonic look more like a hero by him coming to the rescue. That was his purpose XP.

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17 hours ago, Dee Dude said:

The second most disappointing and wasted thing regarding Eggman in Forces is that they broke tradition of having an post-credits scene of him stranded somewhere. 

 

So, he’s dead, but it doesn’t matter because every game is now self-contained apparently, with also there being two or so overall worlds.

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8 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

So, he’s dead, but it doesn’t matter because every game is now self-contained apparently, with also there being two or so overall worlds.

 You seem to have forgotten that Generations explains that he found the Time Eater while in space in the aftermath of Colors. Good grief. 

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