Sonic Forces: The War Of Wasted Opportunities.

[Multikaris]

37 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

 You seem to have forgotten that Generations explains that he found the Time Eater while in space in the aftermath of Colors. Good grief. 

Well, the ones from Lost World onwards, that is.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

34 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Well, the ones from Lost World onwards, that is.

 He's not even dead in those ones. Come on man. Try harder. 

[Autosaver]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:27 PM, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Tails has been consistently mishandled since Colours,

I'd actually argue it started in Unleashed. You're literally introduced to Tails unable to defend himself, and started the whole "Tails is too weak/scared to fight".

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Autosaver said:

I'd actually argue it started in Unleashed. You're literally introduced to Tails unable to defend himself, and started the whole "Tails is too weak/scared to fight".

That is true, although I tend to cut Unleashed a bit of slack for still having Tails do some things like flying the Tornado, helping track down the Gaia temples, working with Pickle to figure things out etc. I always assumed that the bit with Tails being afraid was the fact no one really knew what these Dark-Gaia creatures were, and it's lessened when Tails is completely surrounded by them as well.

[Dee Dude]

Needless to say, the Modern era has pretty much diagnosed Tails with an identity crisis. 

He’s a either a wuss/bro/brat or all of the above because Tails has never really been written well aside from Unleashed, and they all fall under the same problem.

He can’t fight.

[StaticMania]

Being able to fight isn't the only thing that makes a character well written.

Good gravy!! It's like the only thing that matters to people is Tails' ability to fight and while it's clearly not...it certainly can feel that way. 

If Tails was playable and had his attitude from Colors in cutscenes, that'd be dandy.

[Dee Dude]

22 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Being able to fight isn't the only thing that makes a character well written.

Good gravy!! It's like the only thing that matters to people is Tails' ability to fight and while it's clearly not...it certainly can feel that way. 

If Tails was playable and had his attitude from Colors in cutscenes, that'd be dandy.

I didn’t say it was the only thing that mattered, I was saying they all fell over that flaw while there was plenty of other problems with Tails personality crisis.

[StaticMania]

There's no identity crisis, the only thing that changed from Unleashed to Colors onward were his interactions with Sonic. In that he actually had casual interactions with Sonic and wasn't just expositing.

Lost World is a leaf on a dead tree in regards to Tails because he's just never been like that before.

[Gabz Girl]

Speaking of Tails in Sonic Forces, what was the deal with that storyboard sketch of him and Sonic fighting Chaos and Metal Sonic? That whole scene never even bloody happened and it was posted on Nakamura’s Twitter too! Talk about false promises. 

[RedFox99]

1 hour ago, Gabz Girl said:

Speaking of Tails in Sonic Forces, what was the deal with that storyboard sketch of him and Sonic fighting Chaos and Metal Sonic? That whole scene never even bloody happened and it was posted on Nakamura’s Twitter too! Talk about false promises. 

Maybe cut content. I mean the game's story seems pretty incomplete.

[Salamander]

Probably an early draft of the cutscene where the phantom villains first show up.

[darkfist_flames]

17 hours ago, Gabz Girl said:

Speaking of Tails in Sonic Forces, what was the deal with that storyboard sketch of him and Sonic fighting Chaos and Metal Sonic? That whole scene never even bloody happened and it was posted on Nakamura’s Twitter too! Talk about false promises. 

link pls

[dbzfan7]

21 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

That is true, although I tend to cut Unleashed a bit of slack for still having Tails do some things like flying the Tornado, helping track down the Gaia temples, working with Pickle to figure things out etc. I always assumed that the bit with Tails being afraid was the fact no one really knew what these Dark-Gaia creatures were, and it's lessened when Tails is completely surrounded by them as well.

I give it a bit of slack too as that scene was believable to a degree I think. It's just he never comes back from that moment ever. So I more or less say Unleashed planted the foundation and seeds. Still don't understand why something that has been a thing since Sonic 2 is just ripped away.

[Razule]

19 hours ago, Gabz Girl said:

Speaking of Tails in Sonic Forces, what was the deal with that storyboard sketch of him and Sonic fighting Chaos and Metal Sonic? That whole scene never even bloody happened and it was posted on Nakamura’s Twitter too! Talk about false promises. 

[mayday2592]

If you think about it, even Lost World handled Tails better than Forces did. After he was kidnapped, Tails hacked Eggman's tech while being restrained and then attacked his kidnappers with no hesitation. In forces, the weakest of robots is enough to have Tails cowering like a baby. Not to mention his inability to repair Omega. Honestly after the story in this game, I have no doubt that Sonic Team just doesnt care anymore.

 How else can you write characters so inconsistently  in such a short time?

[Razule]

Actually.. maybe Tails was able to fix Omega? But he just didn't come back online until after.

[Multikaris]

16 minutes ago, mayday2592 said:

If you think about it, even Lost World handled Tails better than Forces did. After he was kidnapped, Tails hacked Eggman's tech while being restrained and then attacked his kidnappers with no hesitation. In forces, the weakest of robots is enough to have Tails cowering like a baby. Not to mention his inability to repair Omega. Honestly after the story in this game, I have no doubt that Sonic Team just doesnt care anymore.

 How else can you write characters so inconsistently  in such a short time?

So Tails will likely be phased out with all the other friends soon enough, unless they keep him around and detestable. Would being playable help, or would it just be polishing a turd?

[darkfist_flames]

46 minutes ago, mayday2592 said:

If you think about it, even lost world handled Tails better than forces did. After he was kidnapped, Tails hacked eggmans tech while being restrained and then attacked his kidnappers with no hesitation. In forces, the weakest of robots is enough to have Tails cowering like a baby. Not to mention his inability to repair Omega. Honestly after the story in this game, I have no doubt that Sonic Team just doesnt care anymore.

 How else can you write characters so inconsistently  in such a short time?

The problem with lost world is that they made tails overestimate himself, insulting eggman, becoming jealous  of sonic/eggman teaming up, and speaking of teaming up they really wasted an opportunity  with eggman helping sonic after he lost control of the zeti,  except for the 2 parts were he saved tails/sonic,  he hardly did anything, with his only excuse "i can shut dawn the machine"  at least they shouldv let him invent something that will help sonic or something similar to Ratchet & Clank: all4one, i dont like the game much, but did a fantastic job with Dr. Nefarious being forced to work with the heroes,  specially this scene. 

 

[Gabz Girl]

23 hours ago, Razule said:

Ah, there it is! Remember how everybody here was so happy and relieved when they saw this, because it meant that Tails was finally going to kick ass with Sonic and actually stand up for himself?! 

*sigh*

[StaticMania]

It probably didn't even mean that.

[Soniman]

On 11/23/2017 at 4:04 PM, StaticMania said:

There's no identity crisis, the only thing that changed from Unleashed to Colors onward were his interactions with Sonic. In that he actually had casual interactions with Sonic and wasn't just expositing.

Lost World is a leaf on a dead tree in regards to Tails because he's just never been like that before.

Kinda why I never got why the fandom collectively decided Colors Tails is bad. It actually felt like there was a spark of friendship between Sonic and Tails again after the boring bland stale affair it fell into post SA2. Sure not every line landed but it had heart. 

You won't see me saying the same for SLW and Forces Tails though, both are disasters 

[Razule]

I do like that Sonic and Tails still actually treat each other like friends in recent games.

[Shadowlax]

On 11/23/2017 at 3:33 PM, StaticMania said:

Being able to fight isn't the only thing that makes a character well written.

Good gravy!! It's like the only thing that matters to people is Tails' ability to fight and while it's clearly not...it certainly can feel that way. 

If Tails was playable and had his attitude from Colors in cutscenes, that'd be dandy.

No its not, but its character consistency. To compare, if robin just... and I mean any robin Dick, Jayson, Tim Steph, Damien whoever just became a super coward for no reason. Because the writer of this story decided to disregard what the character was previously and didn't justify it, its bad writing. Character justification, and actualization is rather important and just " this is a different story " isn't good enough justification when you are using character that exists in the modern conversation there are exspectations of this character that informs how they are written and acted, this is extremely pertinent because mania exists.   

Ironically enough another piece of sonic media that suffers from the problem of " this is a different story, thus I don't need to explain my writing but I actually do because that's called setting up a setting " is sonic boom, and that has a good version oft ails that acts good. 

But yeah, being able to fight doesn't make a character well written character constancy does , and this just happened to overlap. 

 

Also its a video game where anime animals fight shit, so you know the worse you are at fighting the lower you go on the totem pole for a lot of people. 

[DabigRG]

On 11/20/2017 at 7:45 PM, Miragnarok said:

Remember when it was implied Knuckles was a spy for Eggman back in Mania? That’s one thing they forgot too. So many forgotten plot threads! 

...Say what?

 

 

 

On 11/23/2017 at 3:33 PM, StaticMania said:

Being able to fight isn't the only thing that makes a character well written.

Good gravy!! It's like the only thing that matters to people is Tails' ability to fight and while it's clearly not...it certainly can feel that way. 

If Tails was playable and had his attitude from Colors in cutscenes, that'd be dandy.

Yeah, that's definitely the vibe I get from 85% of the complaints.

On 11/24/2017 at 3:28 PM, mayday2592 said:

If you think about it, even Lost World handled Tails better than Forces did.

Pretty much. The thing with Lost World is that it was trying to make Tails more directly involved in the conflict and highlight his(and Sonic's) flaws to flesh him out a little more and induce some form of character development. The problem was that the overall consistency and establishment within the game ranged from distracted to borderline non-existent.

Thus, we got a Tails who is more vocally confident and even cocky than usual about his skills early on, freely makes a few jabs at Eggman when he's normally pretty straightforward, and suddenly outright instigates a vindictive and insecure argument with him and Sonic despite his normally non-confrontational and humble demeanor.

Basically, it recalled elements of the character's established personality to give him a character arc, but it had to make him act relatively OOC in order to induce the conflict.

[Rummy]

Here's a fruit for thought.

Null Space.