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Sonic Forces: The War Of Wasted Opportunities.

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3 hours ago, antyep said:

Or hell since they had to fight armies of Shadows, Chaos, Metals, and that other guy (XP), they could’ve had to fight Chaos’ other forms, but not him transforming into them, but separate from him. They could’ve fought an army of Chaos 0s, 2s and so forth.

You know what I'm starting to realize more and more as time goes on... is that I was actually more interested in seeing Zavok in the game than I was Metal Sonic.

Maybe because the formula of what Metal Sonic entails is just so "Whatever" to me now though. 

I was introduced to him as a character in Heroes. I saw him once before in the multiplayer in SA2 but I didn't really know anything about him. So in Heroes when I found out he had this whole bout with insanity where he actually believed he was the real Sonic I thought that there must have been some enriching stories about him that I was missing or something but apparently not.

He's just a metal Sonic. You fight him and he's defeated and sayonara, see you next game, hope they use the Japanese theme again next time.

I know I probably shouldn't be interested in finding out what Zavok's deal is because they clearly don't care. SEGA was just like, "Yeah we've got these new marketing tools and potential action figures. They need to be in the game. Write a story for them." And Pontac and Graff wrote the story and just let things exist without an explanation. They were told that they have to be on the Lost Hex so they are... and that's it. No explanation behind what it is or why it's there or whatever. They were told the Deadly Six are villains so they are. No explanation for why Zavok's got such a love for world domination. The angle for their revenge against Eggman is only slightly still around for a few scenes when they have a chance to overthrow him but most of their attention is on Sonic now.

It might also be because I've seen some really well written and well drawn fan-comics centered on them that actually tries to give them something a little more than what they got and also capitalizes on some of the more interesting aspects behind their characters. Like the fact that they have a Master but the Master isn't the leader and what Zavok's relationship to the guy is... stuff like that.

 

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thoughts:

the character I was the most impressed with was Silver. Love him or hate him, he is a completely different guy than in Rivals/06. I mean this is the guy who went from believing Mephiles blindly and being a dick to everyone in Rivals to being cool,calm,collected and smart. I mean look at his interactions with Knuckles. It is a surprising change to me. Even the voice was a refreshing change.  Though I will admit, I was hoping to see nativity but we didn't.

I actually want to see Tails and Classic Sonic's relationship more. It was a sweet scene when he went a way and Tails was sad. I hope they expand maybe like a little bother relationship? Who know's? foreshadowing?

Classic Sonic as adorable as he is, I still do not understand why he is there other than to add more gameplay mechanics. 

I love the idea of the avatar character and the OST to the avatar's stages. I do wish that they gave you dialogue choices for the avatar and maybe name choices to. 

Triple boost was cute cute cute

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On 12/10/2017 at 9:09 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

He's just a metal Sonic. You fight him and he's defeated and sayonara, see you next game, hope they use the Japanese theme again next time.

 

Forces actually lampshades this. At one point Sonic notes that virtual constructs of Metal are redundant if he can indeed be rolled off an assembly line. Given the game's bare bones dialog this one made me do a double take on Metal.

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On 12/10/2017 at 9:09 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

You know what I'm starting to realize more and more as time goes on... is that I was actually more interested in seeing Zavok in the game than I was Metal Sonic.

 

Same.

On 12/13/2017 at 7:20 PM, Sonikku. said:

 

I love the idea of the avatar character and the OST to the avatar's stages. I do wish that they gave you dialogue choices for the avatar and maybe name choices to. 

 

Wait, so you don't get an option to name your characters when you're done with the story?

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On 12/16/2017 at 1:10 AM, DabigRG said:

Same.

Wait, so you don't get an option to name your characters when you're done with the story?

Nope, Avatar is only "Buddy" and "Rookie".

I did enjoy the character customization, but am I the only one who thinks that lacks even more customization parts? Especially for girls...

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The story felt underwhelming. We didn't see much of what Eggman's reign did to the world aside from two stages. The story was less than an hour so this might be the cause. I'm hoping that the events of Forces aren't ignored come the next game.

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On 10.12.2017 at 6:43 PM, Ryannumber1Santa said:

Like, keep in mind that Forces in ways was meant to be what Odyssey was for the Mario series. It was meant to be a step outside of the comfort zone of the series.

Really? You think? Mario I can understand but Sonic Forces feels like one of the safest games they ever created. They threw in all the beloved Sonic characters in the story, - Blaze for some reason, they made Shadow - the most recommended modern character by fans playable again - even thought it was just a free DLC, they brought the most beloved bosses and rivals + Zavok back - even thought you only fought two of them, they brought the boost gameplay back and the Wisps, the most well received gameplay styles in the last years, they created a new badass edgy villain, most of the stages are 2D, they try to tell a more serious story, they made Classic Sonic playable again - because that make a game automatically great, right? etc.

I personally can not see how Forces can be seen as a step outside of Sega's confront zone? Forces was for me personally the most less-risky game they ever made. The only real thing Forces has is the Avatar.      

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I noted some of my thoughts on Sonic Forces on my blog - https://dseay25.wordpress.com/2017/12/18/certainly-not-force-majeure-a-sonic-forces-review/, certainly felt Sonic Team were trying to do too much. The gameplay, plot and level design wasn't great  at all and it just wasn't fun to play at all. Such a shame

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11 hours ago, Sephy said:

Nope, Avatar is only "Buddy" and "Rookie".

I did enjoy the character customization, but am I the only one who thinks that lacks even more customization parts? Especially for girls...

 just didn't like all my females flat. Seriously even rouge has a chest it's not needed I know but deeper customization would be great next time

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1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

 just didn't like all my females flat. Seriously even rouge has a chest it's not needed I know but deeper customization would be great next time

Why do you want the ability to increase breast size to be in a game for children?

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I haven't played the game yet, but from what I've seen of the character customization, I definitely would've liked for there to be more body-related options.

 

That being said, the lack of having them... isn't that big of a deal, in my opinion.

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4 hours ago, Speedi said:

Why do you want the ability to increase breast size to be in a game for children?

Because "I" want to.  Marketed toward children? Well in that case better censor rouge.

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I'm fine with the body proportions...It just seems they only thought about boys (and their simple outfit) but didn't think very much about girls (You only have one part for body with options like a scarf and that's all...you don't really have option to combine them).

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Maybe you can't change the bodytypes too much since it would interfere with the cutscenes?
Some movements might look awkward if the character model is bigger or has more body mass.


I'm annoyed with this "It's a kid's game, characters shouldn't have varied body shapes" argument, that's just lame.
Female curves (or muscular man bodies, or hell fat, whatever) doesn't have to be sexual. It just adds a cool factor, or extra personality. It comes closer to your vision for the character. Y'know, the entire point of a character creation system. And why do you think children don't like playing as cool looking characters?
Children aren't upset if Catwoman or Lara Croft has boobs. They just want cool looking characters do cool things.

How can I have my awesome Mr. T or Femme fatale Catburglar fancharacter look good when they have the physique of Dave the intern?
They want me to put a representative of myself in the game, so where's the option to play as a helpless ball of fat that can't jump past the easiest gap of the game?
But alas, Sega knew any character with an incredible physique as I have would totally overshadow vanilla Sonic.

But again, I understand the technical complications. The character model could be clipping trough other characters or locations, and then the internet will have Sega's head on a platter for that. So they just stick with one bodytype to avoid animation complications. I get that. But the "It's for kids, so this series has to be utterly devoid of anything cool beause that leads to Darkness" mindset is annoying as hell. Sorry, Pandora's box has already been opened. Retroactively sucking the coolness out of the series won't stop that.

On top of that, I'd argue Sonic is marketed as Family friendly, more then straight "for kids". They wouldn't market Green Hill Zone or Shadow so aggresivly if they were just aiming for kids. Kids don't know who Shadow is, other then some random angry asshole that randomly beats Sonic to a pulp in the occasional Sonic Boom episode.

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8 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

The character model could be clipping trough other characters or locations

Well, the game has a lot of clipping issues already, and that's with the static Sonic model, so...why care when it comes to the OCs when they didn't care about Sonic?

Clipping1.png

Clipping2.png

Clipping3.png

Clipping4.png

Clipping5.png

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Heh.

I suppose their goal is more to prevent as many issues as possible, rather then striving for complete perfection.
This is Sonic Team after all.
Well, A Sonic Team.
Well, mostly newbies with little experience under the guidance of a number of the Sonic 06 and Sonic Lost world team.
So yeah.

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11 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Heh.

I suppose their goal is more to prevent as many issues as possible, rather then striving for complete perfection.
This is Sonic Team after all.
Well, A Sonic Team.
Well, mostly newbies with little experience under the guidance of a number of the Sonic 06 and Sonic Lost world team.
So yeah.

That could explain a lot about Forces. 

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Yeah, the lack of an option to have different body types is one that I definitely noticed towards the end of the game. Most Avatars and Restistance NPC look more like really cheap Sonic Boom background characters, with the grey wolf in a red cap is my main comparison. The Bears in particular could've generally benefited from being a little beefier to look at compared to the average Sonic character. 

Like, I realize expecting to have more Big the Cats, Vector the Crocodiles, and E-100 series running around is out of the question, but where's the love for the bodies of characters like pot belly Tails, square Cream, diamond chested Espio, faberge egg Bark, and yes, even sexy n smooth Rouge?

 

Incidentally, it's also a factor in why I've grown to appreciate Zavok.

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I bought the game yesterday because it was on-sale for 40 bucks, and yeah, it absolutely sucks. Every stage is pathetically short. The level design is bland, boring, uninspiring and uncreative. The boss battles are somewhat decent. 

 

 

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On 18. 12. 2017 at 10:16 PM, Irish David said:

I noted some of my thoughts on Sonic Forces on my blog - https://dseay25.wordpress.com/2017/12/18/certainly-not-force-majeure-a-sonic-forces-review/, certainly felt Sonic Team were trying to do too much. The gameplay, plot and level design wasn't great  at all and it just wasn't fun to play at all. Such a shame

Or the exact opposite. Something tells me that situation after Forces will be very different from ´06, as those two are games with a different approach IMO.

Sonic ´06 was built upon Adventure formula and it was an ambitious project at the start, but then Yuji Naka quitted, other needed guys here and there too and half of the team went to make Secret Rings or what´s that game´s name...

Sonic Forces level design was built by a guy who co-developed design in Lost World (so maybe 1-2 stages), Runners and other of that small bait stuff and two other guys who are pure novices. Therefore the level design couldn´t be very ambitious from the start as the designers clearly didn´t have an idea of what Boost gameplay (or any, seriously) should look like. The storywriters - more or less the same. I don´t know who wrote original script (or I forgot, who knows), but it´s kind of big mess, where something said or done is at least partially negated later on. Iizuka and SEGA heavily hyped the game, because, well, it was the only thing they could do, honestly.

 

So, in my view, I think that Sonic Team went into demise after Lost World and the Boom failure and what we see here is what is left of it. And that´s sad.

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Kinda going against the purpose of the thread here, but I've said it before and I'l say it again:

Metal Sonic did not need to be in this game. Like, I know that should be specified as the way he was implemented, but really he could've been left out entirely. He adds nothing but a pointless boss fight to the game from what I've seen that only serves to further lessen the impact of Infinite's final scenes.

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