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A Hypothetical New Team Rose


RedFox99

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>Team Rose can still being a thing

No thanks. Heroes already shoehorned characters (Knuckles, Big) just to fill out their team gimmick. Team Dark had the most development and even then at times you have the impression Shadow could do it all himself.

With how Sonic games have been struggling to keep the cast beyond Eggman and the hedgehog himself relevant, I'd suggest they just include characters with more care.

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55 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

That's a bit of an exaggeration don't you think?

Nah man  behind those dead lifeless eyes hides a cat who would throw the whole world away for the opportunity to fish

55 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Didn't think think could spark such discussion. Anyways, what are your guy's ideal Team Rose?

The idea is, amy cream and sticks

25 minutes ago, Almar said:

>Team Rose can still being a thing

No thanks. Heroes already shoehorned characters (Knuckles, Big) just to fill out their team gimmick. Team Dark had the most development and even then at times you have the impression Shadow could do it all himself.

 

Its not even really an impression.

Shadow has the ability to teleport, and can move at high speeds which negates flight and makes him perfect for stealth missions. And shadow has a myriad powers that would allow him to do much more damage than omega can output. Team dark is very much a team of " shadow needs a team because he's popular" . We got fun stories out of it, but as a functional team they make no sense and don't really need to be around each other. 

Amy doesn't suffer this problem though, she would need help flying. And maybe some one to help fight she's a tough customer but she needs help. And it works, both on a friend level and a functional level. 

That said do teams matter anymore?

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14 hours ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

What has Blaze been categorised as previously? She had a type in Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic Runners and the Mario and Sonic games. Sticks had one in that series too. 

In the riders series she’s classified as a speed type, but in runners she’s a power type. Honestly I think the latter suits her more since she would be a good counterpart to Knuckles, especially that she’s also the guardian of emeralds.

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Blaze was designed as Anti-Sonic. Not Anti-Knuckles. Her similitaries to Old Knucklehead are from both of them being supposed to contrast with Sonic's wild and free persona.

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I love Big but I think he was just kind of shoehorned in as the power guy for Amy and Cream in Heroes because there weren't really any other better options on hand. He never really met Cream beforehand, lest we include the Cream cameos from SADX, and even Amy didn't really have interactions with him in Adventure save for very brief moments that you could skip. I don't necessarily think Big is bad for Team Rose by any means, but I do wonder if Sticks would be a better fit for a future team theme. The fact that Vector took Big's spot in Free Riders kinda proves there's little interest in developing the Team Rose dynamic beyond what we had in Heroes. There's really no reason they couldn't put Big on a bike like Vector, yet they opted for Vector instead because I guess he's more popular? I don't know...

Sticks could easily be established as Amy's friend in the main canon and as for Cream, well Cream is a real sweetheart who just wants to befriend everyone so she's probably one to quickly accept Sticks for her quirks and conspiracy theories, so that kinda checks out too. I guess the main draw of having Sticks instead of Big is the allure of having an all female team, and this seems like the best way to accomplish that. Plus, they make a fine parallel to Team Sonic this way. Boy and girl hedgehogs for speed. Cute young kids for flight. And two very wild rough and tumble fighters for power. That is of course if Sticks is strong enough to even fill the spot for power. She's pretty tiny and relies more on weaponry than brute strength, so I'm not sure, but hey, that didn't stop Blaze from being a power type in Runners of all things... Speaking of Blaze, I prefer her to be on a separate team (most likely with Silver) since I see her as a speed type.

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Team Rose is the one team that could be completely gotten rid of as it really doesn't matter (not saying get rid of the characters, just their grouping). In Heroes they were pretty much forced together apropos of nothing and never got much material to establish their bonds after, to the point where literally anyone was being slotted in the third position, and Runners didn't even know what to do with it so put all the Heroes Rose members anywhere it felt like. Contrast that with the ethos of the other teams' constructions;

-Team Sonic was formed from the three classic protagonists, but they'd had multiple games to establish their dynamics between each other, and even the weaker dynamic of Tails and Knuckles can slide because their bonds with Sonic are so solidified in the series.

-Team Dark had Shadow and Rouge establish their dynamic in SA2. Omega was a new add-on, but unlike Team Rose, which felt like it was bolted together without much thought, he was carefully designed (character-wise) to complement Shadow and Rouge's existing personalities and dynamic, so even as a Gamma reference he feels like a natural fit.

-Team Chaotix were made from the ground up with Heroes in mind, so the team dynamic was interwoven into parts of their characters from the start. 

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11 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Didn't think think could spark such discussion. Anyways, what are your guy's ideal Team Rose?

Amy, Cream & Big. Simple as that.

I actually wouldn’t mind more development and dynamics from them to make a fun and interesting team.

....as long as they don’t act diabetic like in Heroes.

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I can certainly where OP is coming from,  since not only did Big not have any real past history or chemistry with Cream and Amy, the execution of the their team dynamic in Heroes never really develops his relationship with them outside of "he's looking for his frog again".

Then again,  Team Rose did infamously stand out as the one team that was kinda built in rickety foundations to begin with. 

Again though,  Team Rose itself doesn't seem like the team I'd reckon tying Sticks who deserves better,  to. 

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5 hours ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

I can certainly where OP is coming from,  since not only did Big not have any real past history or chemistry with Cream and Amy, the execution of the their team dynamic in Heroes never really develops his relationship with them outside of "he's looking for his frog again".

Then again,  Team Rose did infamously stand out as the one team that was kinda built in rickety foundations to begin with. 

Again though,  Team Rose itself doesn't seem like the team I'd reckon tying Sticks who deserves better,  to. 

Yeah it seems Team Rose had the weakest dynamic out of the other teams in Heroes.

I guess Sticks wouldn't really be on a team given her personality.

This leads me to a follow up question: how would you guys improve the relationship in of Team Rose?

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8 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

I guess Sticks wouldn't really be on a team given her personality.

On the contrary, Sticks can very well be a team player and she's versatile enough to work better with others.  Again,  it's with Team Rose as it stands,  that she doesn't really fit. 

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3 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

On the contrary, Sticks can very well be a team player and she's versatile enough to work better with others.  Again,  it's with Team Rose as it stands,  that she doesn't really fit. 

Fair point. I could see her on a team with Marine given her bombastic personality and that's it. Can't really think of other teammates aside from Team Rose. 

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I actually think that's not a bad idea. Still, I kinda prefer if she follows Big and Blaze's example and mainly be her own thing until Amy or Cream happens by.

On 11/21/2017 at 6:19 PM, Jack the Rookie said:

That is sorta what I did with the Angels, a better name than Team Rose by the way, and the team includes Blaze too.

Where did that come from?

On 11/21/2017 at 7:14 PM, HywelAtTheMoon said:

What has Blaze been categorised as previously? She had a type in Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic Runners and the Mario and Sonic games. Sticks had one in that series too. 

I don't know about Sticks, but Blaze has been Speed(Zero Gravity), Power(Runners), and All Around(M&S).

On 11/21/2017 at 8:00 PM, Diogenes said:

I'm honestly just tired of these three person teams. It's a weird, awkward relic of Heroes' gameplay and it ends up ignoring characters' actual relationships (and sometimes even abilities) just to mash them into this preset pattern.

If Sticks did end up being transplanted into the main series, she certainly could befriend Amy and Cream, but there could be any number of other combinations worth exploring as well. I don't see much benefit in formalizing a "team" with her in it over just having her exist independently and build all sorts of relationships with all sorts of characters. Especially since she's kind of a weird paranoid loner anyway.

Yeah, that's my thought as well. Like, I'm not completely opposed to the idea since it's a convenient format, but characters like Knuckles and Rouge don't need to be too tied down like they had been for quite a while.
 

On 11/21/2017 at 11:59 PM, Diogenes said:

I like Big. He's a chill dude who just wants to fish with his buddy. And I like the idea of a "normal" guy unconcerned with heroism or the fate of the world getting caught up in events far bigger than the scope of his life and just sort of bumbling through to victory.

He's honestly got a more interesting story than half the characters in this series.

Agreed.

On 11/22/2017 at 12:20 AM, Super Mechanio said:

"Cool" is subjective though.

What one person considers cool, another person might consider hokey and juvenile. There's really no objective list of "cool Sonic characters."

In my personal opinion, the fact that Big is so chillaxed and doesn't let life get him down is what makes him such a cool dude. No irony, no memes, complete sincerity here - I think Big's a cool guy because nothing about him is constantly trying to be cool. He lives life at his own pace and does whatever makes him happy. And to me, it's hard to get much more cool than that.

Which isn't that different from Sonic himself when you think about it.

On 11/22/2017 at 12:47 AM, SpongicX said:

I don't necessarily think Big should be kicked out of the series entirely, but I never liked him as a part of Team Rose, he felt so out of place. Blaze or Sticks would make a much better third addition to Amy's team, compared to Big, or even Vector the Crocodile (nothing against Vector, but he already has his own team.) I even made a short comic a few years back that poked fun of how strange it is for Big to be a part of Amy's team. 

Eggman's Big Team Rose Messup in Color

 

On 11/22/2017 at 1:26 AM, SpongicX said:

Even if not, it still felt strange to see Big with Amy and Cream out of nowhere. I'll even admit it was a bit strange to see Cream in there, because the only other game Cream was in before Heroes was Advance 2, yet it never acknowledged how Cream and Amy were best friends. (Amy wasn't even a part of that game's story, and was only unlockable through a ridiculous requirement. ) Despite no history, Cream still worked pretty well as a sidekick for Amy, but Big felt very out of place.

The game didn't give Team Rose the best introduction either. Take Team Dark for example, it did a much better job at introducing these characters, and it shows how they became a team. We see how they started out rough, until Rouge points out how they're all after the same thing. Team Rose didn't bother showing how Amy met Cream or Big. It just shows that they're moping around about Froggy and Chocola missing, while being fooled into thinking Sonic might have taken them. The game did a terrible job at explaining their conflict, when I first played the game  13 years ago, I missed out on a lot of those details at the beginning, because they go by so quickly without detail. I honestly had no idea what was going on at the time.

The rest of the game just didn't give me an understanding as to why Amy was looking for Sonic, besides being in love with him. Yet when she finds him, she suddenly wants to beat the crap out of him. It got even stranger, when I unlocked the final episode, and heard Amy say "You're the one pretending to be Sonic, you're the one responsible for taking Froggy and Chocola." I remember thinking "where did this come from?" Yes, I am now aware that the beginning of Team Rose's story mode shows Amy looking through a newspaper with Metal Sonic disguised as Sonic running away with Froggy and Chocola, but I missed that detail as a kid, because they barely showed it, and didn't bother explaining things. They didn't have Cream say something like "I can't believe Sonic took Chocola and Froggy, only for Amy to claim Sonic wouldn't do such a thing. They made it obvious that Froggy and Chocola were missing, but I missed the detail that they thought Sonic was responsible for taking them. All we hear is Amy saying "I wonder where Sonic is?" That's not the best way of acknowledging that they think Sonic took Froggy and Chocola. 

Sorry, got a little sidetracked, but the point is, Team Rose was one of the most underwhelming parts of Sonic Heroes, which is a shame. I personally liked Amy and Cream, but Big felt too out of place, and it didn't help that Team Rose's story mode was the most underwhelming part of the game. Their narrative felt more rushed and unclear, compared to the rest of the game's story, and it didn't help that their levels were too short and easy as well. I wanted to like Team Rose in Sonic Heroes, but it really wasn't given as much thought as the other teams. They had no problem with making up a third member for Shadow and Rouge's team, and managed to make it work, yet I don't think Sega tried hard enough to give Amy and Cream a fitting third member for their team. 

Fun fact: Heroes was originally supposed to be Cream's introduction as Amy's equivalent to Tails, technically making her the third member of Team Rose, but it was decided to go ahead and introduce her in Advance 2 to help distinguish it from Advance 1; much of her dialogue in the game and her bio in the manual are remnants of that fact. I also heard she might've originated as an X-exclusive character as well.

And really, Team Rose came together out of convenience in the first place since Big and Cream&Cheese  were looking for Froggy and Chocola, who had apparently been kidnapped by Sonic. The backstory is a little more clearly explained in the manual. Not sure why the intro had them just chilling out other than to establish them as the easy team.

On 11/22/2017 at 4:54 AM, JezMM said:

+1 "I like Big for his non-heroic qualities in Sonic Adventure's story" here.  Yeah he has a big meme culture about him but he was beloved long before the current style of Sonic social media.

Having said that I really don't care for him as part of Team Rose.  He did feel shoehorned in as "we need a power character for Amy's team" due to the way the game was set-up, and I found the sudden announcement that Big was friends with them to be weird and forced, considering SA1 very much established him as having no interest in befriending Sonic and co. during the Chaos escapade, and just far more interested in getting back to his normal, secluded life in the jungle.

...How he turns up in Station Square to retrieve an emerald, understanding the full situation of the game's finale, is best ignored lol.

 

 

He witnessed Chaos 4 eat Froggy before transforming into Chaos 6, thus explaining why Froggy wigged out and why Eggman was after him. And he most likely heard/saw Chaos steal the final emerald from the Tornado and decided to go help Sonic out of gratitude for helping save Froggy.

On 11/22/2017 at 4:54 AM, JezMM said:

 

But yeah, if Sticks shows up, I don't really care about the whole "team" thing.  It also just comes off as awkward to suggest this idea that Amy's immediate circle of friends should all be girls because she's a girly girl etc.  Hell, for Unleashed, where Knuckles stayed on his dang island for once, I rather grew to like the idea of Sonic's immediate support being her and Tails rather than Knuckles and Tails.  It makes a lot more sense in terms of character priorities.

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/22/2017 at 9:39 AM, Johnny Boy said:

In the riders series she’s classified as a speed type, but in runners she’s a power type. Honestly I think the latter suits her more since she would be a good counterpart to Knuckles, especially that she’s also the guardian of emeralds.

I disagree. Blaze was intentionally introduced as a more long range version of Sonic and I'd rather she stay that way.

On 11/22/2017 at 9:56 AM, Almar said:

Blaze was designed as Anti-Sonic. Not Anti-Knuckles. Her similitaries to Old Knucklehead are from both of them being supposed to contrast with Sonic's wild and free persona.

Pretty much.

17 hours ago, Flame Lance said:

 

Sticks could easily be established as Amy's friend in the main canon and as for Cream, well Cream is a real sweetheart who just wants to befriend everyone so she's probably one to quickly accept Sticks for her quirks and conspiracy theories, so that kinda checks out too. I guess the main draw of having Sticks instead of Big is the allure of having an all female team, and this seems like the best way to accomplish that. Plus, they make a fine parallel to Team Sonic this way. Boy and girl hedgehogs for speed. Cute young kids for flight. And two very wild rough and tumble fighters for power. That is of course if Sticks is strong enough to even fill the spot for power. She's pretty tiny and relies more on weaponry than brute strength, so I'm not sure, but hey, that didn't stop Blaze from being a power type in Runners of all things... Speaking of Blaze, I prefer her to be on a separate team (most likely with Silver) since I see her as a speed type.

Pretty much this.

16 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-Team Chaotix were remade from the ground up with Heroes in mind, so the team dynamic was interwoven into parts of their characters from the start. 

Fixed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 11/22/2017 at 7:57 AM, RedFox99 said:

Anyways, what are your guy's ideal Team Rose?

Honestly, Team Rose(or rather Jubilee) is a concept I think she mainly just be Amy, Cream, and Cheese. Unlike most of the other teams, it came together completely out of convenience and thus far, the third member(Big/Cosmo/Vector/Blaze) is generally a guest star that joins  up for the same basic reason and I think it should mainly stay that way. Like, they're all free to join back up to hang out or adventure together whenever, but I think it's best if it generally hovers between the individualistic approach(ala Knuckles, Blaze, and Silver) and the Team format(ala Dark, Chaotix, and Babylon). 

 

 

9 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Fair point. I could see her on a team with Marine given her bombastic personality and that's it. Can't really think of other teammates aside from Team Rose. 

Honestly, this reminds me of how I was hoping Marine(and maybe Gardon) would return as Blaze's occasional sidekick/entourage.

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Why can’t a team have 4 members or better yet, ditch the flight, speed and power machenics all together 

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Surely the whole Team dynamic is long-outdated at this point anyway.  If they were ever to use it again in a future game - which is doubtful - I would honestly find it more interesting if they deliberately swapped around the team compositions to create more friction in the story.  Or maybe just let you choose your own team.

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1 minute ago, FFWF said:

Surely the whole Team dynamic is long-outdated at this point anyway.  If they were ever to use it again in a future game - which is doubtful - I would honestly find it more interesting if they deliberately swapped around the team compositions to create more friction in the story.  Or maybe just let you choose your own team.

Maybe storywise, the characters are scattered and are in groups of random members.

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4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Fixed.

No, team Chaotix were made for Heroes. The individual characters existed beforehand, but not in the form of the team. 

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5 hours ago, Miki said:

Why can’t a team have 4 members or better yet, ditch the flight, speed and power machenics all together 

That mechanic was never a thing past heroes and teams pretty much aren't much of a thing either...so it doesn't matter.

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4 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

No, team Chaotix were made for Heroes. The individual characters existed beforehand, but not in the form of the team. 

Eh, same difference.

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

That mechanic was never a thing past heroes and teams pretty much aren't much of a thing either...so it doesn't matter.

 

Advance 3, the Riders games, and Runners all use it.

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Advance 3 doesn't use anything from Heroes.

 

Riders and Runners aren't the main games, they're spin-offs where that type system belongs.

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1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Advance 3 doesn't use anything from Heroes.

 

Riders and Runners aren't the main games, they're spin-offs where that type system belongs.

It's still a thing, though, is what I'm getting at.

And yes, Advance 3 does in fact have the Heroes classifications at the top of your HUD depending on who your team is: Sonic=Speed, Tails=Flight, Knuckles=Power, Amy/Cream=whoever they're paired up with. It affected whether you had afterimages&could spin jump//dash, could attain flight or air maneuverabiltiy, and/or could break these special walls/bricks. Amy and Cream also came with the ability to use a hammer/chao attack and other special attribrutes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've always loved the team system, even if we had a few outliers here and there.  It seems like a few characters are able to flex types as well which is neat in it's own right.  That said, while Sticks doesn't strike me as a power character, if they decided to take her in that direction, I can't say I'd oppose it.

Don't mess with Big though, he's great.  It was his gameplay people hated. The character himself is pretty chill.  He always came off as the "papa wolf" sort to me in Heroes.  Like, don't mess with my kids, or I'll mess you up.

That said, SEGA, if you're out there reading this, PLEASE consider adding him to Forces Speed Battle or mobile games in general.  I mean we have freakin ZAVOK in there so why not?

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9 minutes ago, Aquaslash said:

That said, SEGA, if you're out there reading this, PLEASE consider adding him to Forces Speed Battle or mobile games in general.  I mean we have freakin ZAVOK in there so why not?

And maybe Cream too?

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4 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

And maybe Cream too?

If they do another wave of 5, it needs to be Big, Cream, Blaze, Sticks, and Infinite. We'll be lucky to get any of those but I can dream!

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