Character deterioration

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If you're going to make a developed story with the game, then yes you do need to make sure they're useful in the plot. Else they shouldn't really be involved in it.

Just because story is generally second to gameplay doesn't mean you can just plot them in the story with nary anything going for them and expect them to work. That's one out of many reasons characters have been criticized here.

[StaticMania]

I don't think I was saying that they should just be plopped into the game's plot without care or reason...what I said would really only apply if there were hub worlds and they within reason would show up in the world, not in the story or related to the plot.

[Dash Speed]

On 12/3/2017 at 11:53 AM, Shadowlax said:

Quote

he literally saves sonic in forces and is going to get omega to save him in forces

Lacks context. Don't say he saves him of pure good intentions without proof. Shadow also attacks him in other games.

Quote

 

he's done so yes.

he literally saves sonic and helps save the world because he wants to and thats his goal is to help people

 

Prove it. Cite your sorces without making headcannon speculation.

Quote

 

*points directly at sonic forces, sonic 06, shadow the hedgehog, sonic battle , and sonic adventure 2*

You mean all those times where saved people because he wanted to and because he felt like its the right thing to do. And literally says at some point that even if people hated him, he would do the right thing because its the right thing to do doesn't count?

 

Prove it, gameplay doesn't translate into evidence of a characters motivations in story. He saves Rouge, and his clear motives was is was told to by GUN . It's sad only the incentive of being told to save people is the only way to make Shadow give a crap about something. Shadow at his core his a brave hero but he's not a benevolent one. He rights wrongs, but on his own terms which cause characters like Sonic to disagree and fight him.

Quote

No that's not how this works, if you wanna argue the character you have to argue its characterization presented. Not a fanfiction you made in your head

Take your own advice, Shadow usually is shown alone or with Rouge because he's a lone wolf that does what he wants not because he works for someone.

 

Quote

Shadow works for gun, the details of that employment remain obfuscated. But he works for gun. And considering its a thing he does on a regular bases, whether is GUN employee or Mercenary half alien we call in because where incompetent that's still a career that he's doing. Its also relevant to shadow's interest

Not cited, only implied. Shadow in generations and freaking Colors DS worked on his own time with Omega, these don't show Shadow is a a main member of GUN forces at all. 

Quote

You seem to want to write a sonic fanfiction where shadow is literally vegeta,  you can go write your sonic boom fanfiction. That's fine, but when arguing actual characterization you can't actually use that.

Pot calling the kettle black, stop prentending Shadow is Batman or Judge Dread when half of his fights are near death matches with his opponents showing he has no moral limits or restrictions in achieving any goal he sets out. Shadow's too sociopathic to be a law abiding solider and your in denial if you are going against cannon material about his profile of stating he's the dark side of Sonic, which means he's the opposite of a classic hero like Sonic is.

Please stop trying to debunk me in knowing Sonic lore more than me, you don't

[MetalSkulkBane]

Umm, Dash Speed? Shadow saves people a lot of times.

In Heroes the very first thing he does after waking up is saving Rouge. It's instinct for him.

In Sonic Battle he wants to kill Emerl to because he thinks it's for greater good (his own decision, mind you) and then decides to spare him. Almost as if he has heart or something

In Rivals he goes to save Eggman, even though they enemies Why? because he obviously has weird respect to grandson of Gerald (which why he calls him "doctor' all the time)

And he saves Rouge in that game.

In Sonic Chronicles he looks for Omega, because he's worried about his friend (screw Boom "friends make you weak" Shadow).

Heck, he saved Rouge in SA2. Which was totally beyond his 'business'.

I'm confused what's the implication here. Shadow promise Maria to protect the planet she loved. Obviously he's a hero.

Honestly, Shadow is Sonic's rival by simple fact that Sega says so and I think they know best what they own character is (or at least knew when they made him). Yeah, we never see Shadow officially challenging Sonic to a right/race to see who's better (exceptions are Colors DS and arguably Generations) but in SA2 and Heroes (early times, when Sega gave a damn) it's visible that Shadow looks forward to fighting Sonic.

It's subtle but visible. In SA2 Shadow thinks as Sonic as nobody at first meeting, the mission is his only concern. Second meeting and they have a tie, Sonic moves from nuisance to a worthy foe. When he thinks Sonic is dead, he seems disappointed (I guess we has ordinary hedgehog after all), but then they have one of my favorite scenes in a franchise: a slow talk and walk. They enemies, but they they don't fight imminently. They show respect to each other. Shadow obviously is not 'good' (yet) but his behavior changes toward Sonic. Why? Because he sees him as his equal. Or rather rival.

In Heroes he doesn't even remembers Sonic, yet he smiles when they prepare to fight ('date to die for' scene). I don't think I need to remind that Shadow smiles rather rarely. He does that because deep in his mind he's looking forward to fighting Sonic. If he doesn't do it in other games it's because he puts serious goals (getting his memory, saving the world, saving his friends, etc) over his rivalry with Sonic (which is more of a side hobby to him).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

11 hours ago, StaticMania said:

I don't think I was saying that they should just be plopped into the game's plot without care or reason...what I said would really only apply if there were hub worlds and they within reason would show up in the world, not in the story or related to the plot.

Oh, okay then.

What you said sounded completely different when I read it, so my bad for misunderstanding you.

[Multikaris]

On 11/27/2017 at 10:51 PM, Dr. Mechano said:

Based on what?

When has Eggman ever expressed any kind of species prejudice? In every appearance we've seen, Eggman seems to simply view himself as superior to everyone - human, animal, or robot.

He kept a human in a nicely made glass cell and fed him. Amy was kept in a dark and dingy cell or tied to a pole in the middle of nowhere. Sonic was tortured for months, and other Mobians were stuffed inside green tubes and crammed together like livestock. The Chaotix were kept in small, confined pods. Any Mobian who dared work under his thumb, he showed zero concern or mercy for their safety. Electrocuting Knuckles, for instance. Or what he did to Infinite. And holding Cream and her mother hostage for little reason. Hogging the life energy of their planet to murder their greatest hero and leave a lifeless rock for him to reign over, after gaining his trust against a “worse enemy”. It’s subtle, but his Speciesism has been there since SA1. 

Risky Boots is more of a villain who’s writing has gone downhill than him. 

[Marco9966]

11 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

He kept a human in a nicely made glass cell and fed him. Amy was kept in a dark and dingy cell or tied to a pole in the middle of nowhere. Sonic was tortured for months, and other Mobians were stuffed inside green tubes. The Chaotix were kept in small, confined pods. Any Mobian who dared work under his thumb, he showed zero concern or mercy for their safety. Electrocuting Knuckles, for instance. Or what he did to Infinite. And holding Cream and her mother hostage for little reason. Hogging the life energy of their planet to murder heir greatest hero and leave a lifeless rock for him to reign over. It’s subtle, but his Speciesism has been there since SA1. 

Risky Boots is more of a villain who’s writing has gone downhill than him. 

What green tubes?

[Multikaris]

2 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

What green tubes?

One of the levels in Forces had them. 

[DabigRG]

Since this is back, I think it needs to be asked: What is the best and/or "proper" way to write these characters?

[Fire-N-Space]

Amy really got deterioration in the Boom series to the point where she didn't feel like Amy at times she was bossy,  picky, and mean with the show not treating her very well either. She sells all of her best friends stuff, doesn't flirt with Sonic, she let Sonic and Knuckles stay at her house even though she knows that they don't care for her stuff and the list go's on.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Since this is back, I think it needs to be asked: What is the best and/or "proper" way to write these characters?

General answer: in ways that don’t annoy most of your audience. Some’ll still find something to object to, but even so, that’s what constructive critique is for.

Specific answer: depends on the character.

Let’s take a less common example like Rouge—she’s selfish and cunning, but she’s definitely not heartless. She’ll value peoples lives over gems if forced to choose between the two, otherwise as long as there’s no one in danger, it wouldn’t hurt to keep an eye on her sometimes in the event she decides to snatch and run off with something valuable.

I mean really, you’re talking a cast of over 20+ characters in the games alone. It’s gonna be a long list.

[BaronGrackle]

19 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy really got deterioration in the Boom series to the point where she didn't feel like Amy at times she was bossy,  picky, and mean with the show not treating her very well either. She sells all of her best friends stuff, doesn't flirt with Sonic, she let Sonic and Knuckles stay at her house even though she knows that they don't care for her stuff and the list go's on.

I like Amy in Sonic Boom. She doesn't come off as particularly mean, she has some good ideas, and I consider her non-flirting a plus.

Sonic Boom might be some of the best characterization Amy's ever had. Do you want to set that against Amy from Heroes, Unleashed, or Generations?

[Skull Leader]

I'm going to focus on Sonic, Tails, Amy and Knuckles, given how these characters are pretty much the de-facto main character of the franchise, and as the faces that will show up the most often, I feel there is a need to recognize in what areas of their characterization do they slip and what can be done to improve on them.

*Sonic the Hedgehog. I think one of Sonic's issues for me is that he suffers a bot from the "designated protagonist" syndrome, which result in vices like having other characters (or even the narrative) suck up to him. On top there is the way his "attitude" is played, which at times can make him come off as annoying. Sonic is supposed to be a bit rough around the edges, but ultimately he is someone who means well, though he has trouble opening up and does everything to keep others from reading too much into his personal thoughts/feelings. This is IMO a two bladed sword since depending on how it is used, it can make the character sympathetic with his ackward reactions, or come off as rude to his friends, even if he doesn't mean it. 

Also he is a little bit too talkative for my taste, particularly when teasing bad guys, which I guess is sometjing that comes with Sonic being a teen and hyperactive. However, I would appreciate if that could be tonned down a little bit. However, I do like to see him fail, and not because of mcking the character or anything like that, but because of how failure and adversity present challenges from which the character can learn, and make not only his jpurney more interesting, but also his victory feel like something that was earned through and trough rather than sometjing granted through convenient deus ex such as the Super Saiyan forms.

 

*Tails. IMO what brought a demise to his characterization was Sonic Team taking his role of the sidekick to it's most extreme, where Tails ceases to be a character and becomes instead a role. Add as well how in order to keep the characters together, the writers decide to make Tails utterly and absolutely dependant on Sonic being there, to the point where, as seen in Forces, Tails will only help if there is a Sonic... ANY Sonic, around for him to latch on. It doesn't help either how the only character Tails seems to interact in any way is the blue protagonist, something that not even Amy (the character everyone loves to accuse of being obsessed) does.

I think that what needs to be done to Tails is a solution that comes in two parts: first, he needs to stop appearing in very.single.story. I'm not saying that Tails should be put on a bus in the same way ST does to other characters, nor that he and Sonic should stop being friends. However, as things are being played right now, having Tails be all about Sonic is not something healthy for what once was an endearing character. Just look for example how Sally, a character I used to hardly stand in the old Archie comic get an impressive turn around with her characterization the moment they stopped pegging her to Sonic and having her not only appear less frequently to give room for other characters to also do their thing (sometjing the games really need to do), but also interact with others, which led to the next point...

Tails desperately needs to interact with other characters not named Sonic. There is a very strong reason of why while Tails was stuck with Sonic as the sidekick, Amy continued to grow as a character during the modern era: meeting with other characters and joining them on their quests is one way to have a character branch out from what they initially were and display more facets that adds layers to their personality since this way they'll face different situations and react accordingly to them. Amy would had never become a heroine if she had not meet the little bird and had stuck chasing after Sonic forever. Heck, in SA1 the very reason Tails grew one extra level in badass (before he regressed) was because he did stuff without having Sonic by his side... Just take a look at SA1 Tails vs Forces Tails and tell me that I'm wrong.

 

Amy Rose. Similar to Tails, Amy is a character who will display an interest in Sonic, aspect that needs to be carefully balanced because too much of it can cause for Amy's innocent and playful crush to at best eclipse the other endearing aspects of her character (such as her compassion and empathy for others) or at worse, become an obsession that brings put the worst of her, such as acting aggressive on her very own friends for daring to contradict her on the matters of Sonic.

I hold the belief that stripping Amy of her love for Sonic is not the answer, because much like Tails' admiration for the protagonist, this is not only an important part of Amy's character, but also what motivates her to become involved in all kind of adventures. However, neither Amy nor Tails should be all about that because otherwise, how are they going to have the room to display what else they can do?

However, while I think that Amy being too much into Sonic can be a thing, it is not always the fault of just one character. Enter Cream...

One of the things I feel played a huge role in Amy being less the compassionate girl that helped others or felt empathy for even the bad guys was Sonic Team's introduction of Cream the rabbit, a character that was a young and cute girl that was friendly and compassionate... just LIKE Amy. In order for Cream to have sometjing to offer, I believe that the people of ST decided to instead focus with Amy's crush and play it as a gag, which sadly was not only poorly done due to Amy gaining some tsundere traits that were never originally there in either SA1 or SA2, but also came mostly at her own expense.

Then there is the issue of Knuckles, a more popular character that Sonic Team wanted to keep around at any cost, which I think also played part in Amy being sidelined, being SA2 one of the most offendig cases since Amy's whole development of becoming stronger and more independent is thrown out of the window, despite how she was just as involved in the main polt as Tails, in order to make room for that character from the classic trilogy whom ST considers taboo to left out, even when he has nothing to contribute to the story... like in SA2, which strangely many fans see as Knuckles' last good portrayal. Aaand that leads me to:

 

Knuckles the echidna. Now this is a character whose whole entire situation could be resumed as "he became victim of his own popularity".

Knuckles is a character that was created with a very clear role that gave shape to his whole character: he is the guardian of the Master Emerald. He doesn't know why he has to keep that big shiny rock safe, he just knows that this is what he was raised to do, and takes great pride in doing so.

And here is where I have to say a few things some will not like:

Erasing the ME will NOT solve the issue with Knuckles.

Placing some other character to guard the ME is NOT going to solve the issue with Knuckles.

"Freeing" Knuckles from his duty is NOT going to do the character any favors.

I understand that a lot of people, including some that I know like Baron Grackle, want to see Knuckles, just like any other one of us also wants to see for what is in the best interest of our favorite characters, but it should not be done at the expense of part of said characters... Believe me, there are times when I also get annoyed seeing how Amy's crush for example is exaggerated in ways that don't make the character any justice, but would never want to have that removed because I know that under the right hand, it can portray the character in a more positive light... Like in issue #2 of the IDW Sonic comic.

This however does not mean that Knuckles can't be developed to have that "one thing" that would make him feel like a character with an actual reason to show up rather than sometjing placed there by marketing to boost sales by baiting fans who see Sonic, Tails and Knuckles together in the cover (*cough*SonicFarces*cough*). Can any of you guess what that "one thing" is? It is the same "thing" Tails and Amy have and motivates them to do what they do.

I don't oppose Knuckles becoming one of Sonic's friends, however, as things are right now, I don't see in Knuckles a reason for him to CARE about Sonic to the point of making a compromise in his otherwise inflexible character.

Believe me, I would like to see Knuckles standing on the merit of what his character is rather than being the object of affirmative action like in Forces, where he was given a role unfit to his persona solely for marketing purposes (like finding an excuse to make him appear like being relevant to slap him on the cover next to Sonic and Tails) and worse, costed this chance to characters that could had better played the part... Something that was a disservice on both sides.

[Almar]

I still don't see what the point of having the Resistance was (and the "Eggman Conquered The World" gimmick, frankly). They could have just have had Sonic, Sonic, OC, and Shadow traveling the world fighting Eggman's army with other characters showing up when needed with the plot about the same.

[Shadowlax]

On 4/28/2018 at 7:20 PM, DabigRG said:

Since this is back, I think it needs to be asked: What is the best and/or "proper" way to write these characters?

With a bit of self awareness, but not too much where you are pointing at the character and laughing. Just enough to allow you write stories where they thrive. 

[E-122-Psi]

On 29 April 2018 at 11:10 PM, BaronGrackle said:

I like Amy in Sonic Boom. She doesn't come off as particularly mean, she has some good ideas, and I consider her non-flirting a plus.

Sonic Boom might be some of the best characterization Amy's ever had. Do you want to set that against Amy from Heroes, Unleashed, or Generations?

I think it's more they gave her a fuller personality but one not really related to her original character. You could have given such a personality to Sally Acorn or maybe even Blaze the Cat and it would have been more fitting. I remember thinking early Boom!Amy worked because she still had that bubbly silly element to her, she still felt a bit like a child and she also had a bit of a more subtle obsession with Sonic (as not crushing over him constantly but making it obvious she wanted his attention), making it feel more like an expansion, while later episodes just slowly made her into the self righteous curmudgeon of the team.

That's also the complaints I hear for Knuckles. Some admitted Boom!Knuckles was actually funny, but it was still an extravagant stretch over what his original character is.

The fact that 'It's better than what the games do right now' doesn't excuse that completely, since both have still abandoned developing on the original characters.

To compare Boom Sonic and Tails felt better compromised since they still felt like the basic core of their characters translated into the show. Hell some parts they actually revive from the original personalities (eg. Sonic having more of a temper, Tails being more childish). There's liberties but not to the point it may as well be another character.

[Sonic Fan J]

Didn't think I'd comment on this thread but I think for me the character that feels the most deteriorated, or possibly just plain changed, is Sonic. I started really noticing it with his first foray with the Uekawa designs and had it really driven home when I finally had a chance to watch the OVA. I was introduced to Sonic as a teenage rebel with an attitude whose aloofness and rough exterior hid a heart of gold and a strong sense of justice that he would always act on. Yet, with SA1 he was presented as generally corny, energetic, and surprisingly outgoing where I feel he is more of an introvert than an extrovert. Then there was this surge of people complaining that Sonic was no longer this cute and cuddly children's character that he always was from his inception which didn't fit at all with how I was introduced to him back in 1991. By Generations the deterioration resulted in two interpretations of Sonic that do not resemble the character I was introduced to at all. On one hand, you have this creepily cheerful moe and childlike interpretation of what was supposed to be a cool American 90's teenager, and then you have the extreme extrovert comedian of perpetually good cheer that can't stop boasting about himself and bathing in the praise from those around him. Neither character feels like the aloof introvert whose attitude belies a heart of gold and strong sense of justice he always acts on that I grew up with. And just to defend part of seeing him as an introvert, from a unrelated argument from the SEGA forums supposedly in an interview once when asked about Sonic's feelings for Amy, Yuji Naka said that Sonic is too shy to ever admit that he probably does care about Amy. Perhaps I'm simplifying too much, but choosing being shy over being embarrassed, or just in general saying that Sonic won't do it for either reason implies Sonic does not like revealing aspects of himself. Combine that with his preference for running and adventure and only really interacting with those who can keep up with him and he feels very much like an introvert to me. Seeing where he is today though he feels so much like a different character that he isn't even recognizable at times.

[Skull Leader]

3 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think it's more they gave her a fuller personality but one not really related to her original character. You could have given such a personality to Sally Acorn or maybe even Blaze the Cat and it would have been more fitting. I remember thinking early Boom!Amy worked because she still had that bubbly silly element to her, she still felt a bit like a child and she also had a bit of a more subtle obsession with Sonic (as not crushing over him constantly but making it obvious she wanted his attention), making it feel more like an expansion, while later episodes just slowly made her into the self righteous curmudgeon of the team.

That's also the complaints I hear for Knuckles. Some admitted Boom!Knuckles was actually funny, but it was still an extravagant stretch over what his original character is.

The fact that 'It's better than what the games do right now' doesn't excuse that completely, since both have still abandoned developing on the original characters.

To compare Boom Sonic and Tails felt better compromised since they still felt like the basic core of their characters translated into the show. Hell some parts they actually revive from the original personalities (eg. Sonic having more of a temper, Tails being more childish). There's liberties but not to the point it may as well be another character.

This is something I agree with, because while there where some good things going for this version of Amy like her being an actual part of the group instead of being excluded or left behind like it often happened in the games, along with interacting in a more chill manner with Sonic, I felt that the writers wanting to make her more "mature" to appease the folks demanding for this, was something that came at the expense of her more playful and silly side.

I'm never been a fun of keeping the girls from being as fun characters as the boys because of wanting to portray them more positively, as it not only feels condescending, but sacrifices their entertainment value.

However, for what it was, it was still enjoyable to see this take on Amy's character as it still retained some of the character's key traits that when played out, gave her some moments, such as her empathy for the bee bots, and even the twist with her crush of it being something she wants to keep to herself rather than announcing it to everyone.

As for Boom Knuckles, while it was a huge departure, I'll give them credit for at the very least being consistent with what this Knuckles is, given how the main version from the modern games is pretty much a mess with no clear identity nor role due to ST not knowing what to do or willing to do anything to just keep him around for his marketing value.

[DabigRG]

 

18 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

IMO what brought a demise to his characterization was Sonic Team taking his role of the sidekick to it's most extreme, where Tails ceases to be a character and becomes instead a role. Add as well how in order to keep the characters together, the writers decide to make Tails utterly and absolutely dependant on Sonic being there, to the point where, as seen in Forces, Tails will only help if there is a Sonic... ANY Sonic, around for him to latch on. It doesn't help either how the only character Tails seems to interact in any way is the blue protagonist, something that not even Amy (the character everyone loves to accuse of being obsessed) does.

Tails desperately needs to interact with other characters not named Sonic. There is a very strong reason of why while Tails was stuck with Sonic as the sidekick, Amy continued to grow as a character during the modern era: meeting with other characters and joining them on their quests is one way to have a character branch out from what they initially were and display more facets that adds layers to their personality since this way they'll face different situations and react accordingly to them. Amy would had never become a heroine if she had not meet the little bird and had stuck chasing after Sonic forever. Heck, in SA1 the very reason Tails grew one extra level in badass (before he regressed) was because he did stuff without having Sonic by his side... Just take a look at SA1 Tails vs Forces Tails and tell me that I'm wrong.

 

Amy Rose. Similar to Tails, Amy is a character who will display an interest in Sonic, aspect that needs to be carefully balanced because too much of it can cause for Amy's innocent and playful crush to at best eclipse the other endearing aspects of her character (such as her compassion and empathy for others) or at worse, become an obsession that brings put the worst of her, such as acting aggressive on her very own friends for daring to contradict her on the matters of Sonic.

I hold the belief that stripping Amy of her love for Sonic is not the answer, because much like Tails' admiration for the protagonist, this is not only an important part of Amy's character, but also what motivates her to become involved in all kind of adventures. However, neither Amy nor Tails should be all about that because otherwise, how are they going to have the room to display what else they can do?

Honestly, I think another important factoid involved with those two is that Adventure 1 was supposed to have them resolve to be more independent and/or less reliant on Sonic. As a result, they kinda needed to portray them as somewhat more capable and mature than previously, especially Tails.

Which ironically led to issues with Lost World and Forces trying to properly focus on him with the Colors style.

18 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

 

However, while I think that Amy being too much into Sonic can be a thing, it is not always the fault of just one character. Enter Cream...

One of the things I feel played a huge role in Amy being less the compassionate girl that helped others or felt empathy for even the bad guys was Sonic Team's introduction of Cream the rabbit, a character that was a young and cute girl that was friendly and compassionate... just LIKE Amy. In order for Cream to have sometjing to offer, I believe that the people of ST decided to instead focus with Amy's crush and play it as a gag, which sadly was not only poorly done due to Amy gaining some tsundere traits that were never originally there in either SA1 or SA2, but also came mostly at her own expense.

 

Eh, that sounds more like an issue with them not trying to write both characters without [over?]flanderizing them. In fact, that's pretty much the vibe I get from most of the few co-interactions I remember.

Though Amy being somewhat easy to trigger/anger is a general trait from around that general point in time anyway.

18 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

 

 

Knuckles is a character that was created with a very clear role that gave shape to his whole character: he is the guardian of the Master Emerald. He doesn't know why he has to keep that big shiny rock safe, he just knows that this is what he was raised to do, and takes great pride in doing so.

And here is where I have to say a few things some will not like:

Erasing the ME will NOT solve the issue with Knuckles.

Placing some other character to guard the ME is NOT going to solve the issue with Knuckles.

"Freeing" Knuckles from his duty is NOT going to do the character any favors.

 

Actually, he was specifically created as a contrast to Sonic. The Master Emerald is just a tangible way they chose to help reinforce that.

18 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

 

Believe me, I would like to see Knuckles standing on the merit of what his character is rather than being the object of affirmative action like in Forces, 

Uh, I'm not sure you know what that term means...

18 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

 

and worse, costed this chance to characters that could had better played the part... Something that was a disservice on both sides.

Okay, I have my own thoughts on the matter, but I'll bite: Like who?

.

On 4/28/2018 at 4:04 PM, Miragnarok said:

Risky Boots is more of a villain who’s writing has gone downhill than him. 

Feel free to elaborate, as I'd like to hear/read this.

[DabigRG]

Delete

[Fire-N-Space]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 4:10 PM, BaronGrackle said:

I like Amy in Sonic Boom. She doesn't come off as particularly mean, she has some good ideas, and I consider her non-flirting a plus.

Sonic Boom might be some of the best characterization Amy's ever had. Do you want to set that against Amy from Heroes, Unleashed, or Generations?

The last thing Boom Amy has is good characterization and hiding her feelings killed the show & games for me. Amy in Heroes, Unleashed, and Generations has more character then Boom Amy her Heroes self can still fight as she flirts with Sonic, doesn't force her friends to team up with her and all of her attacks don't have to be base on her hammer with that being said I find that Amy has the best characterization in Heroes.

Amy only having 6 episodes out of 104 to be about her was a big let down.

[DabigRG]

25 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

her Heroes self can still fight as she flirts with Sonic, doesn't force her friends to team up with her and all of her attacks don't have to be base on her hammer with that being said I find that Amy has the best characterization in Heroes.

Rocket Accel for da win, bay-bee!

[Multikaris]

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

 

Honestly, I think another important factoid involved with those two is that Adventure 1 was supposed to have them resolve to be more independent and/or less reliant on Sonic. As a result, they kinda needed to portray them as somewhat more capable and mature than previously, especially Tails.

Which ironically led to issues with Lost World and Forces trying to properly focus on him with the Colors style.

Eh, that sounds more like an issue with them not trying to write both characters without [over?]flanderizing them. In fact, that's pretty much the vibe I get from most of the few co-interactions I remember.

Though Amy being somewhat easy to trigger/anger is a general trait from around that general point in time anyway.

Actually, he was specifically created as a contrast to Sonic. The Master Emerald is just a tangible way they chose to help reinforce that.

Uh, I'm not sure you know what that term means...

Okay, I have my own thoughts on the matter, but I'll bite: Like who?

.

Feel free to elaborate, as I'd like to hear/read this.

Risky Boots was written quite well in Pirate’s Curse, genuinely repentant for what she did to Shantae. She developed quite nicely there, ‘specially in light of the new threat.  It’s clear their rivalry is more of an occupational hazard than genuine hatred. She’s back to below square one in the next game, trying to rule the whole Genie Realm. Her portayal in her (presumably non-canon) DLC is even darker, where she regularly strikes down her own minions, and in the climax, strikes Shantae down in cold blood and makes her explode, making her no better than the Pirate Master, even a borderline Complete Monster in her sheer bloodlust. WTF, WayForward?

[DabigRG]

40 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Risky Boots was written quite well in Pirate’s Curse, genuinely repentant for what she did to Shantae. She developed quite nicely there, ‘specially in light of the new threat.  It’s clear their rivalry is more of an occupational hazard than genuine hatred. She’s back to below square one in the next game, trying to rule the whole Genie Realm. Her portayal in her (presumably non-canon) DLC is even darker, where she regularly strikes down her own minions, and in the climax, strikes Shantae down in cold blood and makes her explode, making her no better than the Pirate Master, even a borderline Complete Monster in her sheer bloodlust. WTF, WayForward?

Woah, okay, spoilers--maybe I shouldn't have asked.

I thought you were talking about between Risky's Revenge and Pirate's Curse, but yeah, that was essentially her plan, wasn't it?

[BaronGrackle]

6 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I find that Amy has the best characterization in Heroes.

Using only Sonic Heroes for reference, tell me a little about Amy. Her interests, her motivations, her fears. Try it without using the word "Sonic".

EDIT: I originally meant this as a joke, but yes you can pull characterization from Amy in Heroes. But I don't think Boom!Amy deviates far from any answer you can give.