Jump to content
Almar

Sonic Needs a Reboot

Recommended Posts

The topic about how Forces should end brought up the idea of rebooting the series (ignore all past reboot attempts) after it. So I figured, let's take a serious look at that.

Here are my questions:

A. If you say (as myself and others do) that Sonic Team is not fit to handle a reboot, who would you suggest to handle it?

B. What's the start of the reboot? All the way to South Island? An alternate Sonic Adventure? After Sonic Adenture 2?

C. Who or what do you suggest to scrap for the reboot? What do you keep?

D. What's the tone?

E. Does it try to have a story arc?

D. Have any suggestions for overall gameplay?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The series has already been soft rebooted a couple of times, quietly tidying away and ignoring large portions of unpopular continuity, and it's worked well enough in-universe.  Out-of-universe, no reboot, no matter how extensive, can protect Sonic from his own reputation, so the action is entirely pointless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic doesn't need a reboot. There's not an overarching plot thread strung over the whole series where such a thing could be warranted, so the best approach is to just ignore whatever elements are derided for being bad and continue business as usual. Besides Sonic Boom might as well have constituted as a reboot, just one that nobody liked (I'm talking about the games here, I know people like the cartoon). Like @Blue Bloodsaid, Sega should just focus on making better games; leave it to the comics to expand on the stories Sonic's world can tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We already have the answer to this entire thing, though.

Sonic Mania hands the franchise to Taxman whose track record is only good Sonic games, reboots the timeline to erase everything after S&K and literally makes a statement out of this, specifically only recalls to designs and elements made before Sonic Adventure, and has become the most critically acclaimed Sonic game in 15 years—and only because SA2's original review scores are recent enough to count. That version of SA2 no longer exists and its replacement has since been reviewed scathingly, so it doesn't even count.

In other words, it's the best Sonic game since the games it's deliberately a sequel to.

The experiment's already been done. The critical response to Mania already assumed it was a reboot, and Mania itself already assumes it is a reboot, and Sonic Forces considering Mania's Classic as a Sonic from another world already assumes it's a reboot. Sonic Mania is the reboot—the reboot everybody wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In our days and times where almost everything is getting a reboot I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic also gets one in the future. I really think that Sonic Team should start all over again. At this point it seems like Sonic only has his biggest fans left who are supporting the series until to the end.

My answers for your questions: 

A. It depends how Sega is treating the project and the programmers. If their force the employees to rush out a game like their often do than in the end it doesn't matter if Sonic Team is handling the reboot or a new studio.

B. Maybe in the same way Insomniac handled the reboot of Ratchet & Clank. Take the old ideas of the first game and make an entirely new experience. Maybe I would even go so far and make a huge game who mashes all of the Megadrive games into one big one. 

C. I would keep all of the characters but would give each of them a different role. The reason why so many critics say, that Sonic has to many unnecessary characters is because they all have a very similar role and style. They are all action heroes like Sonic. I would take some of them and give them new roles. Like the Babylon Rouges can be actual villains or Silver could be some sort of a tutorial character or Power up, similar to Aku Aku from the Crash Bandicoot series. 

D. I would keep it more light hearted with a bit of an adventure feeling in the mix. But I would scrap all of the over the top drama. Even stuff like the death of Maria I can not take really seriously if I know that this moment happen in a world inhabited with a bunch of colorful cartoon animals who most of them look like an egdy version of Felix the Cat.  

E. It depends. If the story is kept very simple like in Banjo-Kazooie or Crash Bandicoot than yes. But if their they make a very complicated story arc like they did in the beginning of the adventure era, where at the end a lot of events in future games contradict the events form the past ones then no. 

D. Only that they should finally find a fitting gameplay style for Sonic and stick with it. And just add new small features to the game to make it a bit fresh for players each time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Almar said:

A. If you say (as myself and others do) that Sonic Team is not fit to handle a reboot, who would you suggest to handle it?

Ah, well, there's the rub, huh. There's a very short list of people/studios/whatever that I trust with Sonic at this point, and it's basically just the team behind Mania, but even then they're probably not equipped to manage the entire series. So as much as I wish someone would step in and get this series back on track, I honestly don't know who would be able to.

6 hours ago, Almar said:

B. What's the start of the reboot? All the way to South Island? An alternate Sonic Adventure? After Sonic Adenture 2?

I'd set it in something similar to the Genesis era. Sonic and Tails have already met and teamed up, and it'd be implied they've fought Eggman once or twice in some relatively small scale conflicts. The first game would be loosely based on 3&K, though with details adjusted to account for Sonic 2 not existing and Amy and Metal Sonic stolen from CD.

6 hours ago, Almar said:

C. Who or what do you suggest to scrap for the reboot? What do you keep?

First off, there wouldn't be any other explicit "remakes" besides the 3&K-inspired game mentioned above. Other characters and elements would be reintroduced over time, but in new forms and with new stories. Most of the "villains" don't return; no one really needs to see Black Doom or Dark Gaia again. No Silver; we've had enough messy time travel in this series already, also I hate him. No Chip, no Wisps, no Elise. Shadow would...probably have to come back, just because of his fanbase, even if I could easily do without him, though he'd have a radically different backstory instead of all the stuff with GUN and the ARK and angsting about Maria. Rouge can come back, maybe with a redesign that's a little more subtle, and as more of a morally gray character trying to play both sides for her own gain than basically just a hero who isn't always perfectly nice. Give Blaze a kingdom in some far off corner of the planet instead of having to deal with dimension hopping every time she shows up. The Chaotix and Big can show up as NPCs.

6 hours ago, Almar said:

D. What's the tone?

Fairly light, mostly in line with the Genesis games/Mania but with more meat to it. Keep it fun and actiony, don't try to do serious drama.

6 hours ago, Almar said:

E. Does it try to have a story arc?

Maybe some short ones, or some secondary plots that develop in the background over the course of a few games. I think games usually work best as self-contained stories, at the very least you want to end with a satisfying conclusion rather than a "to be continued" when the next game might not come out for a couple of years.

6 hours ago, Almar said:

D. Have any suggestions for overall gameplay?

Same as I always suggest, base it on the Genesis gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

This sounds harder than doing a reboot lol

Yeah but like, Sonic Team/SEGA don't seem to be able to make particularly good Sonic games no matter what. Can you imagine just how many fuck-ups there'd be if they tried a reboot? Chances are it would be even worse. Dont forget what happened last time SEGA wanted a reboot/new Sonic brand and mismanaged development as they always do:

boomrating.thumb.PNG.0f7c0cf13edc89c7c94f46cf2c981099.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Blue Blood said:

Yeah but like, Sonic Team/SEGA don't seem to be able to make particularly good Sonic games no matter what. Can you imagine just how many fuck-ups there'd be if they tried a reboot? Chances are it would be even worse. Dont forget what happened last time SEGA wanted a reboot/new Sonic brand and mismanaged development as they always do:

boomrating.thumb.PNG.0f7c0cf13edc89c7c94f46cf2c981099.PNG

The only true solution is to burn the franchise to the ground. It's salvageable. BURN IT ALL!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Almar said:

The topic about how Forces should end brought up the idea of rebooting the series (ignore all past reboot attempts) after it. So I figured, let's take a serious look at that.

Here are my questions:

A. If you say (as myself and others do) that Sonic Team is not fit to handle a reboot, who would you suggest to handle it?

B. What's the start of the reboot? All the way to South Island? An alternate Sonic Adventure? After Sonic Adenture 2?

C. Who or what do you suggest to scrap for the reboot? What do you keep?

D. What's the tone?

E. Does it try to have a story arc?

D. Have any suggestions for overall gameplay?

Don't really want a reboot too badly but this seems fun to answer, let's go along with it.

A. Retro Studios, absolutely. Brought two of my favorite franchises back from the dead in big ways, have the sharpest mechanics and aesthetics out there and care more about story than most realize. Only downside would be NIntendo exclusivity but let's say this is a perfect world and they're a multiplatform dev. 

If not Retro, I lean toward Insomniac.....as long as Sonic isn't written as obnoxiously as ratchet and clank.

B. I really like the idea of a Sonic Adventure "Reimagining" and I would start a hypothetical reboot there, reimagine 1 and 2, and get the ball running from there. Everything up to Mania is canon, SA1/2's stories get kind of different but loyal reinterpretations. Everything after that can be used however the writers please.

C. It's hard to say you should scrap anybody. There's no real reason to unless you don't really like the character. A lot of people suggest changing Shadow's backstory but I think that tragic element should still be kept. I'd ditch aliens/military though. Relocating Blaze is also something I've wanted for a while.

D. The tone is simlar to the classics, I guess? I'd put a lot of emphasis on fun character interaction because I love that sort of thing. I wouldn't be afraid to embrace serious situations though. 

E. I'd keep things generally seperated and episodic with some character development happening for those who are paying attention. I don't think Sonic needs a 5 game long epic story arc or something though, would only clutter things.

F. Wider levels, an emphasis on physics, and interact-able objects everywhere.  This is kind of brief but I've gone into detail about this with people so many times lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, I don't think a reboot is "necessary" for Sonic, its problems aren't going to inherently be solved by starting from
scratch because the issues more than anything are with how SEGA handles the gameplay, refusing to build a solid foundation
to work from. However, I think it could help with refocusing and clearly defining what the world is. Setting a clear
identity for the series that it's been sorely lacking for some time. And removing some of the more "muddy" elements, like
Shadow's convoluted, nonsensical backstory.


So, here's my shot at answering these questions

A) This is a really hard question. Ideally you want someone who can competently bring the core gameplay of the classics
into 3D and expand upon them. But it's such a unique model of gameplay that no one has really tried to replicate it, and
because of that, we don't have a clear example of who COULD do that competently, most other platformers use really
different conventions that wouldn't work in a Sonic game.
For instance, entering a new room in platformers, often the camera will pan to your objective, I'm not sure you could
really pull something like that off in a Sonic game without breaking flow.
We have fangames that have made solid attempts to translate the classic gameplay to 3D fully, Sonic Utopia being the best
in my opinion, but with such a small sample pool. I can only really suggest the team that made my favourite 3D platformer
Mario Sunshine, since it has the kind of movement options and depth that I would like to see in a Sonic game.
In an ideal world, maybe give the guys working on Utopia more time and resources to develop a full game, tho I personally
don't entirely agree with "everything" they're doing the foundation is there and I feel like they have a really good grasp
on Sonic.
Taxman is also a possibility, however to my knowledge he's untested in terms of 3D and I don't want to limit Sonic to 2D
games, the concepts have a lot of potential to be fleshed out more in 3D and it would be a massive shame to leave it be


B ) In terms of story, starting from the beginning would probably be the best, at least, in the sense that the first Sonic
game started from "the beginning" i.e. not exactly an origin story. I've considered this before, and I think I would
personally do it by merging elements from the games, for example, if you want to move Knuckles in a direction where he's
more accessible and not tied to the island that's fine. But the way they handle it, treats the island as if it doesn't
exist. A better alternative would maybe be to have Knuckles not tied to the island so that he's free to enter and exit
plots at a whim (ala the OVA?) and to introduce Tikal as the guardian of the Angel Island, and replace the Master Emerald
with say, Chaos who's sealed away. Merge Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure's plots while removing things that are superflous or
don't have a clear role (I personally feel this way about the Master Emerald, hence why I proposed removing it).

So, maybe start with a game that's a merge of Sonic 1 and 2, adding characters like Amy and Knuckles, move on to 3 and
Adventure or whatever.


C) Try to keep as many characters as you can, reintroduce them as you go through the series. Rework some of the characters
backstories. THe best example I have for that is probably Shadow. If you change him to a clone of Sonic created by Eggman
then you strengthen his connection to the existence of the current cast. Cream can work as a Maria stand in as a living
morality pet. I already suggested introducing Tikal as the guardian of the Angel Island, someone else in the thread already
had a good suggestion for removing the "alternate dimension" aspect of Blaze which honestly became kind of meaningless very
early on. Another suggestion is introducing Silver as some kind of time police, rather than as some victim of an eternally
doomed future. Basically, weave the characters into the world in a way that makes sense, and is consistent with how the
games present themselves

However keep the core cast of playable characters small, because you want to keep the gameplay focused, and intregate them
into the game in other ways, as part of the story, as NPCs who give you missions, as boss battles, etc. Ideally take the
Mario approach where the side characters are playable in spinoffs so that nobody feels too left out.


D) For tone, as is pretty unanimous in this thread, try to emulate the feeling of the classic games, look to stuff like the
OVA and other games from the classic era, like Spinball which, while not being an example of a stellar game, is a decent
example of the flexibility Sonic's world has. From the modern era, take some inspiration from the design of the Advance era
games. Importantly it needs to be able to take itself seriously without falling into melodrama.

It'd be important to keep the world reasonably consistent, preferably the game takes place in ONE WORLD, and we don't have
two different games where the topology of the planet presumably is as different as it is from, say, the Advance series to
Sonic 06, to Sonic Unleashed. All of which could have been from entirely different series.


E) Self contained stories for each game would probably be best. I personally tend to find that most satisfying. Maybe have
some escalations from game to game, or some hints where future games are going, but try to not do big arcs spanning
multiple games where every game is required. One game should be one complete experience


F) Well, I kinda answered that in my answer to A, for additional suggestions, maybe try to make both Sonic and Tails
playable in the first game, with Tails functioning as an easier, slower more simplified mode and Sonic having the real meat
of the game's mechanics.


And those are my thoughts so far on an ideal (at least, personally for me) Sonic reboot. It's a bit of a moot discussion, I
guess? Because the more you build up an ideal image of what the series "should" be in your head, the more disappointed you
will be when it never reaches that point, and then even if Sonic Team or whoever might take on the series DOES start making
fundamentally sound games, you're pretty likely to remain discontent with them.

Edited by Emerald Chaos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually taking this seriously instead of saying "make better games". How would a better game fix stupid contradictions like "Two Worlds!" or explain anything about the Lost Hex?

That being said, I wouldn't make it a reboot in the sense of starting over from scratch, i'd handle it like Endgame in the Archie comcis as the first step to something bigger (even if Endgame and what followed wasn't nessecarily better)

A. If you say (as myself and others do) that Sonic Team is not fit to handle a reboot, who would you suggest to handle it?

Literally anybody else. I wouldn't want to label a specific studio but preferably fans with an understanding of Sonic's gameplay, maybe not with a Whitehead level reputation within the community but somebody who can interact with us on a consistent, amicable basis. Basically limit Iizuka's BS Hypiocrisy as much as possible.

B. What's the start of the reboot? All the way to South Island? An alternate Sonic Adventure? After Sonic Adenture 2?

As I said, this reboot would be more of a continuation. Continuing from Forces to be precise. It's already got more world building than most of the 2010 games put together. Use that as the basis for a series of adventures in Sonic's world (or World"s" if we continue to indulge Iizuka's fables)

C. Who or what do you suggest to scrap for the reboot? What do you keep?

Eggman destorys Green Hill zone. When he conquered it, he made it's iconic pattern absoliutely 100% forbidden across his empire. No place that he controls is patterend even remotely like Green Hill Zone. Any such place won't be green, with hills or even be in the zone.  Now that rehash central has been nuked into 16-bit fallout, onto characters:

I would keep the options open for a past character to return except if they outright stated to have died. Nothing from the other spinoffs so no Chris, no Sally and especially no Sticks. Game characters only. And no, not the narrow "Sanic, Taels and Nipples" category, I'd include even obscure characters like Mighty, Fang, Blaze, heck, just to troll this place i'd bring back Princess Elise. And you know? I'd even bring back the much-maligned wisps, ableit with an actual narrative purpose which i'll suggest in a moment.

D. What's the tone?

WHile I have a disdain for the comedy antics of Huck Hedgehog and his two-tailed trap aboard the Interstellar Amusement Park, I think the whiplash to Shadow the Hedgehog level edgelord would be equally, if not more, derided by gamers. I mean, hate to bring up Shonen anime again here in a forum that thinks Sonic X is the worst thing ever but they succeed at balancing goofy slapstick antics that everybody loved from Colours with the heart-felt dramatic moments.  Its not a question of prioritiaing one over the other, its a question of blending the two together in a way that people will be satisfied and not feel a mood whiplash.

E. Does it try to have a story arc?

I think an approach of connected moments could work, a quasi-episodic structure like Uncharted could work and still give the gamer a good experience.

D. Have any suggestions for overall gameplay?

Adventure. No other words, just redo that . Even if it was a "complete accident" that they managed to mimic classic physics in 3D, even if was "completely experimental" and the the "Real Sonic gameplay" is holding X to go down a tunnel, there's still a vocal portion of the fanbase wanting this gameplay back. It's the only one that gave them a sense of freedom without superficially mimicking said freedom with tubular tubes of Lost World or even restricting it with the Crazy Corridors of Unleashed and Generations or the "lol, get fuk'd bitches, this is a 2D game" of Colours.

That said, when people look fondly back on Adventure's gameplay, it's almost exclusively the Sonic sections. The genre roulete has been made the butt of jokes from Ireland to Cathay. People are more receptive of short experience now than they were back in the 90s. there doesn't need to be a million short levels or 10 20 minute stages. Go for a replayable model like Platinum go for, focus on getting better to earn high ranks.

Then again, there was potential in ither gameplay styles. Not Big, that thing can die in a fire, but the others could make for decent games in their own right. I'm not a fan of racing, so just excise that lumpo and Tails stages could be fun sandboxes to explore. Same for Knuckles stages. If people really hate the emerald hunting that much then give him the Werehog's gameplay. Maybe these could be character spinoffs in the spirit of Metal Gear Rising. My personal choice would be a Devil May cry style hack and slash full of style and crazy moves... starring Shadow the Hedgehog. Think a whole game of Shadow attacking enemies with his silly somersault homing attack from 06... but better.

 

Well those are my, no doubt super controversial ideas. But hey, the idea even trying with this series and it's stories is a controversial one in and of itself.

Wait I ddin't explain my idea for the Wisps. Simply, they don't like being exploited in the form of Wispons, having rebelled against Eggman to escape such slavery, so they rebel again but this time Sonic must fight his former friends Civil War style. Maybe they could explain how the Wisps ended up on the Lost Hex or how they ended up on Sonic's World(s). Maybe make the fan theory that "some of them liked it there and stayed" canon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Diogenes said:

No Silver; we've had enough messy time travel in this series already, also I hate him.

So long as we're entertaining the notion of rebooting stuff anyway, couldn't you just retcon the time travel bullshit out of him completely in the process instead? I don't really feel as though it's as integral to the character as the telekinetic stuff, even if it should be less slow-paced Psi Ops and more something akin to Klonoa.

Not that I blame anyone for that kind of personal outlook - I'm just curious what besides popularity motivated you to do this for Shadow and not for Silver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like if you take the time travel out of Silver, there's not really much left of him as a character; he just sort of becomes a generic "hero" type, and anything you could come up with to fill him out would need to essentially be made up from scratch. And his psychic powers are the only remotely interesting thing about him, but even they feel really arbitrarily attached to him; nothing in his backstory explains why he's psychic and it's not even well communicated in his design, and IIRC they only exist because of a pitch for an unrelated game that didn't work out and ended up getting rolled into '06. I'd rather they just trash him and, if they decided they really wanted a psychic character, they could make a new one that wasn't awful.

For Shadow, even if you cut out all the Gerald/Maria/ARK/GUN/Black Arms stuff, I think there could still be something worth exploring in the doppelganger/rival angle. Even though it wouldn't be unique to him with Metal around, I could see him being a more spiteful and prideful rival (like, make that "I'm the coolest" line actually work for him) compared to Metal being cold and mechanical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

 

For Shadow, even if you cut out all the Gerald/Maria/ARK/GUN/Black Arms stuff, I think there could still be something worth exploring in the doppelganger/rival angle. Even though it wouldn't be unique to him with Metal around, I could see him being a more spiteful and prideful rival (like, make that "I'm the coolest" line actually work for him) compared to Metal being cold and mechanical.

I feel like your going " You know all those things that make people like shadow... Lets get rid of all of that and make him nothing" 

Lets not do that, lets instead, make all those things that people like about shadow, more streamlined and more coherent and a story. Maybe change how those things interact, the exact context of the characters, or the roles in shadow life. But everything outside of maybe like Gun past a certain point kind of plays into things people enjoy about the character and the potential you can get from the concept. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic Boom already killed possibility for Reboot, at least for next 10 years or so. But if I was to pretend it never happened, then

2) Reboot is not necessary, just a world-building focuses story that would explain stuff: how this planet works (basic feel, human/mobian ratio, earth or Mobius etc) and clear status quo of Knuckles/Shadow/Silver/Blaze. But if you really want a reboot, start from very beginning. Halfway just makes thing confusing.h

3) Don't 'scrap' anybody, just reintroduce guys at the right pace. I would say main 16 (Sonic Heroes, Silver, Blaze) are a must, rest when it's fitting. Even Black Doom or Elise can be used right.

4) I refuse to open this can of worms. Sonic's tone is something debated to death. Let's just say 'less serious than 06, more stakes than Color" and vaguely point at Archie Sonic.

5) If you really want to make cohesive universe then at least one story focused game is a must, maybe trilogy. But no longer, this is Sonic, not Marvel Comics.

6) This is the wrong question. This continuity had at least 3 different playstyles (2D, Adventure, Boost), more counting Lost World etc. A reboot can equal change in gameplay (Prince of Persia, Spyro, etc) but that's completely different discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I feel like your going " You know all those things that make people like shadow... Lets get rid of all of that and make him nothing" 

It's more like, "man there's a lot of things that I don't like about Shadow...but I probably couldn't get rid of him even if I was somehow in charge of rebooting the series, so I'd ditch the parts I hate and focus on the parts that I do like."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Diogenes said:

It's more like, "man there's a lot of things that I don't like about Shadow...but I probably couldn't get rid of him even if I was somehow in charge of rebooting the series, so I'd ditch the parts I hate and focus on the parts that I do like."

But if you were hypothetically in charge of reboot

It isn't about the parts you don't like

Its about the parts everyone else does

There's a bunch shit I don't I like about amy, one of them is her obsession with sonic. If i'm hypothetically rebooting the series, I cant get rid of that because I'm not making the reboot for me, i'm making the reboot for a lot of demographics and if you just take away parts you aren't interested in, not caring about the audience that will potential buy your product, that tends really bad. So you kinda need to suck up the parts that you don't like, because those are the parts everyone else does. That's like me going " What if we made knuckles not punch hard" the edgy shit is... we people like shadow. And why have an example of what happens when you remove such things, its boom shadow.

No one likes boom shadow. There you go, there's your active example. That shadow that no one likes and wanders constantly why he is around, because he has no character motivations and is just vegeta because you took all the cool shit away. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.