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With Mega Man 11 being announced and how it looks...


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45 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

I'd say in outside media mostly, but I think Mania really nailed the expressiveness of the character in-game, even in subtle ways. 

I honestly prefer Mania's style of sprite to the Sonic 3 sprite  - I feel the added detail and even the controversial colour palette result in it looking more defined and generally cleaner than the S3 style. I think Mania's animations strike a nice balance between Classic's somewhat cute demeanour and his attitude-based personality too. 

I like the Advance series' art, but I think putting down folks wanting Classic back down to "nostalgia" is naff - I and many others just genuinely think he's the better form of the character, and that's while bearing in mind I like Modern Sonic too. 

Outside media I'd definitely give classic Sonic an edge..But Night Of the Werehog and those Mini movies in Unleashed has my favorite portrayal of Sonic in terms of expressiveness. Too good to pass up!

I don't disagree with you.

But honestly, is it too much to ask for just a bit of an update on his Sprite? Really inconsistent to Switching back to the Sonic 2 style yet just another difference is color palate(which also makes very little sense. Why didn't tails and knuckles get a re-haul?) Just weird that they reference the game is after 3k but doesn't use a new 3K sprite

One of my biggest pet peeves with Mania.

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I don't think there is a point to have two Sonics aside from either nostalgia or to appease those who somehow want a split in the fanbase so they don't need to be associated with other fans.
Aside from that there really isn't much difference between the two, Modern Sonic can do everything classic does without question.

I feel like the split is confusing in of itself, since the majority of the differences between Classic and Modern didn't start until Generations, and even now are still pretty nebulous.

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5 hours ago, Slashy said:

I don't think there is a point to have two Sonics aside from either nostalgia or to appease those who somehow want a split in the fanbase so they don't need to be associated with other fans.

Or again... what if they just prefer Classic Sonic's design, associated aesthetic, etc? There doesn't need to even be a split, it's not like anyone who likes Classic more is instantly barred off from liking Modern too.

There's a world of difference between Classic's aesthetic and the more grounded styles of Modern Sonic, anyway. I'd like to see that preserved and I think Classic's design suits it better. 

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

Or again... what if they just prefer Classic Sonic's design, associated aesthetic, etc? There doesn't need to even be a split, it's not like anyone who likes Classic more is instantly barred off from liking Modern too.

There's a world of difference between Classic's aesthetic and the more grounded styles of Modern Sonic, anyway. I'd like to see that preserved and I think Classic's design suits it better. 

Did you like Sonic Lost World or Sonic Heroes design? Those were very close to the classic aesthetic. I mean aside from the character designs, there is no strong distinction between Classic and Modern.

 

What is accomplished by just sticking to the modern style and making these an optional skin?

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Just now, Slashy said:

Did you like Sonic Lost World or Sonic Heroes design? Those were very close to the classic aesthetic. I mean aside from the character designs, there is no strong distinction between Classic and Modern.

 

What is accomplished by just sticking to the modern style and making these an optional skin?

Lost World isn't close to the Classic aesthetic in the slightest - it's more in the vein of a traditional Mario game than Classic Sonic, and at most it's a fundamental misunderstanding of Classic aesthetics. Heroes is closer, but it's the exception, not the rule.

Why stick to Modern, anyway? Classic is to many a better design, and associated with better games - by that logic would it not make more sense to dump Modern Sonic?

I wouldn't want them to, because I know people still enjoy Modern Sonic's games - hence I'd like Modern games to continue for his fans, and Classic games to continue for Classic fans. 

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Just now, Tracker_TD said:

Lost World isn't close to the Classic aesthetic in the slightest - it's more in the vein of a traditional Mario game than Classic Sonic, and at most it's a fundamental misunderstanding of Classic aesthetics. Heroes is closer, but it's the exception, not the rule.

Why stick to Modern, anyway? Classic is to many a better design, and associated with better games - by that logic would it not make more sense to dump Modern Sonic?

I wouldn't want them to, because I know people still enjoy Modern Sonic's games - hence I'd like Modern games to continue for his fans, and Classic games to continue for Classic fans. 

Uhh Lost World looks just like Classic Sonic in 3D, in terms of world design at least. Comparing it to Mario is just bringing up the fact that until Sonic 3 the series had very similar world design to Mario.

I would rather have two continuities and just make Classic a skin or whatever. I really don't mind the design I mind the logistics and what this move represents. I would rather have both games share a continuity and ideas rather than putting them into their own separate worlds where these "modern elements won't taint the experience". This is why I find it problematic.

 

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4 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Uhh Lost World looks just like Classic Sonic in 3D, in terms of world design at least. Comparing it to Mario is just bringing up the fact that until Sonic 3 the series had very similar world design to Mario.

I would rather have two continuities and just make Classic a skin or whatever. I really don't mind the design I mind the logistics and what this move represents. I would rather have both games share a continuity and ideas rather than putting them into their own separate worlds where these "modern elements won't taint the experience". This is why I find it problematic.

 

Lost World looks like a Classic game if you smear vaseline over the screen so you can't really see it, but beyond that the only association is enemy design and "it's a bit saturated innit." 

Why do you care if other people want games in the Classic style as opposed to Modern Sonic's? Again as someone who likes Modern anyway, nothing wrong with having games for those folks who like the Classic style, and you'll still have Modern games for your preference. And again, logically speaking it would make more sense to use the design associated with better stuff - so why not just use Classic all the time?
Cuz Modern has fans too - so cater for both, innit.

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5 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Lost World looks like a Classic game if you smear vaseline over the screen so you can't really see it, but beyond that the only association is enemy design and "it's a bit saturated innit." 

Why do you care if other people want games in the Classic style as opposed to Modern Sonic's? Again as someone who likes Modern anyway, nothing wrong with having games for those folks who like the Classic style, and you'll still have Modern games for your preference. 

I wouldn't mind if SEGAs plans didn't seem to be clear that Modern is forever 3D which means no more Advance successors or Rush successors  (2D sections are not comparable in quality to Rush successors). Sure I will still enjoy the classic games, but they will get stale for me partially because they are too removed from what I consider the main continuity.

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3 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I wouldn't mind if SEGAs plans didn't seem to be clear that Modern is forever 3D which means no more Advance successors or Rush successors  (2D sections are not comparable in quality to Rush successors). Sure I will still enjoy the classic games, but they will get stale for me partially because they are too removed from what I consider the main continuity.

I couldn’t care less about a continuity that Sonic Team has effectively given up on anyway when it results in 

a) more Classic styled games mechanically - a style I hold in much higher regard than Advance (which got dire around 2) or Rush (which is great but not quite Classic tier)

b ) more Classic styled games aesthetically (already been over why I and many others want this)

Continuity is the least of my priorities with Sonic, and I suspect it’s the least of SEGA’s too. Throwing Classic Sonic games into the release schedule now and then is hardly a crime. 

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1 minute ago, Tracker_TD said:

I couldn’t care less about a continuity that Sonic Team has effectively given up on anyway when it results in 

a) more Classic styled games mechanically - a style I hold in much higher regard than Advance (which got dire around 2) or Rush (which is great but not quite Classic tier)

b ) more Classic styled games aesthetically (already been over why I and many others want this)

Continuity is the least of my priorities with Sonic, and I suspect it’s the least of SEGA’s too. Throwing Classic Sonic games into the release schedule now and then is hardly a crime. 

I never saw how the Advance games abandoned the classic aestheic aside from using the modern designs, and if they did abandon the aesthetic they did something new that worked.
I would rather they not stick to any specific aesthetic for an entire series and just use a specific design aesthetic for a game by game basis. Modern Sonic doesn't hold itself to any strict design philosophy which I think has helped it last for so long.

 

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I don't know how the discussion became about Sonic's design, they can keep both in different sub-franchises, definitely, as there is love for both designs, and genre of games. Just keep them separate, I think we can agree that there is no need to have multiple Sonics in the same game. The pixel art is a different matter, some people may love it but it's still outdated, and most people still prefer HD graphics, not including the general audience.

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10 minutes ago, Dr. Jack said:

I don't know how the discussion became about Sonic's design, they can keep both in different sub-franchises, definitely, as there is love for both designs, and genre of games. Just keep them separate, I think we can agree that there is no need to have multiple Sonics in the same game. The pixel art is a different matter, some people may love it but it's still outdated, and most people still prefer HD graphics, not including the general audience.

Shit lads, Da Vinci used traditional paints! But his stuff’s old, we all have to use digital now cuz otherwise we’d be outdated.

The idea pixel art is inherently outdated, again, annoys me as it’s a dismissal of a valid medium within art and an insult to the artists who work tirelessly on the genre. 

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4 hours ago, Dr. Jack said:

I don't know how the discussion became about Sonic's design, they can keep both in different sub-franchises, definitely, as there is love for both designs, and genre of games. Just keep them separate, I think we can agree that there is no need to have multiple Sonics in the same game. The pixel art is a different matter, some people may love it but it's still outdated, and most people still prefer HD graphics, not including the general audience.

Because Classic means being in a separate continuity and locking yourself out of modern elements, it is a design choice that limits variety. Modern can do everything classic can do so inherently that makes it superior. If you like Classic more fine, but you can't say that you aren't potentially limiting variety by design.

 

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6 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Modern can do everything classic can do

Nah, there's at least one thing Modern can't do. Modern can't be Classic.

And anyway, if they were to actually maintain a separate "Classic" continuity, it would quickly develop its own elements that are separate from the Modern continuity. Mania's already done this with the Heavies. Plus any Modern element worth using could be introduced into the Classic continuity if they really wanted it.

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30 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Nah, there's at least one thing Modern can't do. Modern can't be Classic.

And anyway, if they were to actually maintain a separate "Classic" continuity, it would quickly develop its own elements that are separate from the Modern continuity. Mania's already done this with the Heavies. Plus any Modern element worth using could be introduced into the Classic continuity if they really wanted it.

Modern can be classic, I mean Sonic 4 uses the modern designs but it is clearly trying to be like the classics and all of the old zones still exist in this modern continuity so I don't see a reason to need to reset the story back 20 years to get games that look like the classics.

The only way you can argue this is to imply that Sonic 4 would continue to be a bad game even if it felt like the classics solely because it uses Modern designs. Or that Sonic Advance isn't like the classics because it uses different designs.

Heck what makes Sonic Adventure not "classic" at this point, it was an old game and the series has changed a lot since then, how does that not fall under a definition of classic as well.

 

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5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Modern can be classic, I mean Sonic 4 uses the modern designs but it is clearly trying to be like the classics

And it failed. Not just because it's poorly programmed, not just because of its ugly art style, but because Modern Sonic isn't Classic Sonic.

5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

The only way you can argue this is to imply that Sonic 4 would continue to be a bad game even if it felt like the classics solely because it uses Modern designs.

Or, I could argue that it would be a worse (but not necessarily bad) game because of its aesthetic direction. Or, I could argue that, while it may have been a good game, it is still not a classic-styled game, aesthetically, and thus is not scratching that particular itch.

5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Heck what makes Sonic Adventure not "classic" at this point, it was an old game and the series has changed a lot since then, how does that not fall under a definition of classic as well.

You could argue that it is a "classic game", but it is not a "classic" game. It simply does not have the same identity as the Genesis Sonic games.

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43 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Nah, there's at least one thing Modern can't do. Modern can't be Classic.

And anyway, if they were to actually maintain a separate "Classic" continuity, it would quickly develop its own elements that are separate from the Modern continuity. Mania's already done this with the Heavies. Plus any Modern element worth using could be introduced into the Classic continuity if they really wanted it.

Also the Hard-boiled Heavies can be put into a Modern Sonic game without question, you can't put Shadow or Cream into a classic game without needing to explain it first.

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Just now, Slashy said:

Also the Hard-boiled Heavies can be put into a Modern Sonic game without question, you can't put Shadow or Cream into a classic game without needing to explain it first.

Where would the Modern dimension version of the Heavies have come from, then?

Also Shadow might need some kind of explanation but Cream wouldn't. She basically just showed up out of nowhere anyway.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Where would the Modern dimension version of the Heavies have come from, then?

Also Shadow might need some kind of explanation but Cream wouldn't. She basically just showed up out of nowhere anyway.

Considering the Phantom Ruby exists in both worlds he could have made them with that. He could also just...build them.

 

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Okay, so: Is that not a necessary explanation for them? They don't exist in the Modern dimension, as things are. Thus an explanation is needed. Same goes for Shadow or whoever and the Classic dimension.

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9 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Considering the Phantom Ruby exists in both worlds he could have made them with that. He could also just...build them.

 

They can't just appear without explanation then. They'd still need about as much explanation as a Classic Cream and Classic Shadow. Especially Cream. Shadow is just an enigma, and if Boom Shadow is what a Shadow without a backstory looks like..

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Just now, Razule said:

They can't just appear without explanation then. They'd still need about as much explanation as a Classic Cream and Classic Shadow.

A. They only need to be explained due to a stupid retcon made in Sonic Forces regarding them being in two timelines.

B. Do we need an explanation? They were built by Eggman, they look like EggRobos. I really wouldn't question if they just started showing up in the modern continuity since they have reasons to already exist in the modern continuity, I wouldn't question it if they started showing up. Shadow has a far more involved backstory than just being built by Eggman.

 

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5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

A. They only need to be explained due to a stupid retcon made in Sonic Forces regarding them being in two timelines.

Stupid or not, it is what it is.

5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

B. Do we need an explanation? They were built by Eggman, they look like EggRobos. I really wouldn't question if they just started showing up in the modern continuity since they have reasons to already exist in the modern continuity, I wouldn't question it if they started showing up.

But you think we'd need an explanation for Cream?

5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Shadow has a far more involved backstory than just being built by Eggman.

I mean, unless he doesn't. If Classic's a separate continuity his backstory can be whatever they want it to be.

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To answer the question of the opening post... I don't exactly like how this game looks in all honesty so it's going to be a "No" either way. Nevermind the fact that I'm not a fan of Classic Sonic or 2.5D. 

 

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On 12/9/2017 at 10:41 AM, Diogenes said:

Stupid or not, it is what it is.

But you think we'd need an explanation for Cream?

I mean, unless he doesn't. If Classic's a separate continuity his backstory can be whatever they want it to be.

And in the latter most case, it’s still better than Boom’s version’s complete lack of backstory. 

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