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The State of Sonic Team

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39 minutes ago, Razule said:

That would imply it's connected to Sonic 4. Sonic Mania doesn't need to be a numbered sequel to be a sequel.

A numbered sequel is a foolish decision. Not even Taxman could live up to that expectation and I bet he knows it. It's better to do his own "Classic Mania" spin off shit without the eyes looking down upon him. 

But another "Mania" title? I can dig that.

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Based on how things have gone so far this year, I would normally say that the main series Sonic games are due for a break of some kind. But there is an upcoming movie and SEGA is going to have a hard marketing push to make Sonic relevant during that period. So Sonic isn't going on hiatus yet, folks.

Some people have theorized that Sonic Team may have something under their sleeves that they've been working on in terms of a prototype and that it'll coincide with the movie to some degree. I don't think we have any evidence of that but I do see it as plausible. And even if there's no prototype under wraps, I think its likely SEGA will push someone to put out another title by holidays 2019. The nature of the title might even be dependent on the movie.

 

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29 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

And even if there's no prototype under wraps, I think its likely SEGA will push someone to put out another title by holidays 2019. The nature of the title might even

Maybe the next rushed game being a game based off of a CGI/live-action movie would be fitting in a way

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47 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Based on how things have gone so far this year, I would normally say that the main series Sonic games are due for a break of some kind. But there is an upcoming movie and SEGA is going to have a hard marketing push to make Sonic relevant during that period. So Sonic isn't going on hiatus yet, folks.

Some people have theorized that Sonic Team may have something under their sleeves that they've been working on in terms of a prototype and that it'll coincide with the movie to some degree. I don't think we have any evidence of that but I do see it as plausible. And even if there's no prototype under wraps, I think its likely SEGA will push someone to put out another title by holidays 2019. The nature of the title might even be dependent on the movie.

 

If Sonic Team pulled something like 06 years ago then turned around two years ago and make Sonic World Adventure and not falling off the edge till what, 2015 with Boom(Ehhh this one sorta doesn't count but Sega did screw with them so I have to) or Lost world 2013? I won't be surprised if they pull a good game in 2019 or even late 2018 

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1 hour ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

If Sonic Team pulled something like 06 years ago then turned around two years ago and make Sonic World Adventure and not falling off the edge till what, 2015 with Boom(Ehhh this one sorta doesn't count but Sega did screw with them so I have to) or Lost world 2013? I won't be surprised if they pull a good game in 2019 or even late 2018 

I agree with you, primarily because I think there likely are a few prototypes floating around the company, one of which they may decide to use. Its possible they have already been building up to a release of that kind, in the background of Mania and Forces. A project like that may not have been actively worked on during the last year or so, but merely continued minor development conceptually and using feedback from this year's games.  I have read numerous people from SEGA say "Its going to be a big year for Sonic" referencing the time period both during and after both Forces and Mania. I think 'they' exist but whether or not we'll see it, is up in the air for now.

I've done a lot of reading on this specific matter and I've seen it hinted at many times between 2012-2014 (before the Boom fallout was in full swing) that Sonic Team really wanted to develop a fully 3D formula again. Lost World was an experiment that failed due to sales and platform but one in which I think its evident they believed they were going in the right direction. The execution of that game was not good but I agreed with their decision at the time and still do, despite liking the boost games.

The only catch now is that Forces has not seemed to do well, after several years of PR damage control from the previous flop. They could be tired, or fully energized and "ready to do right" by Sonic but in either case the situation may now be out of their control. SEGA has to decide where they want to go next with Sonic and will decide Sonic Team's fate.

In any case, Sonic is not finished yet. Even if he could use a break, I do think SEGA has something big planned for him over the next 1-2 years or so.

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2 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

But there is an upcoming movie and SEGA is going to have a hard marketing push to make Sonic relevant during that period

Sonic isn't respected enough to sell a live-action movie. This isn't Ninja Turtles or Transformers where both not only have a place for themselves as pop-culture icons but have managed to churn out enough passable works to stay respected.

The movie will do mediocre to poorly both in reviews and tickets. It'll fail to draw in uninterested to neutral viewers.

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 Sonic in general stopped becoming as popular during his later stages in the Genesis and especially the Saturn. Not to say he "wasn't popular" anymore but people got tired of him. He was over-saturated.

SA1 and SA2 kept him a afloat but it wasn't enough to save the dreamcast. Sega could have kept Sonic relevant with Mario but they squandered themselves by not having a mainline Sonic game on the Saturn, rather them just being 3rd party titles. 

No one honestly could have beaten Mario for long. He was hardcoded into the media and platformer DNA.

Japan seems to care little for the blue blue but the west? The UK? I think you're undermining the sales here and it does depend on their marketing tactics.

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As much as many will not admit sonic is not the icon he was in the 90s. He is k own but no where near the level of popularity in the early 90s

Seeing as sonic t is over pso and it's coming well if anything they would just hold off on sonic and push full ahead with pso or another property they are not as dire in japan as say America

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I've been reading all the sentiments posted here, and a lot are well thought out and pretty fair. 
It's nice to see how critical, but not over the top people are with this, and I think that serious attitude must mean people aren't taking this as just some chance to complain.

Knowing the trend of people leaving to ultimately work for Nintendo or other larger franchises makes it seem to me like the developers are using Sonic to get their foot into the larger scene, which to me isn't a dumb move on their part. They're taking care of themselves and working up the ranks, so why not take an opportunity to work on a (presumably) larger project? But yeah it is sad to know the consequences of that.

It is interesting though how experience with past Sonic games has taught us to look for things like staff leaving, management issues, and other situations that affect development. Not sure if this is normal for fans of a franchise to even know or need to be exposed to all this multiple times over, but I guess it does say something overall about the scene.

I wonder just how many issues repeat themselves for Sonic Team, and just how many they have control over or not. I'd like to know if they either hired or attempted to hire veterans temporarily to train the new staff, and if not, then why not? We know 2 of the 3 level designers were new to Sonic, the third being with them since Lost World, and the stages had some unleashed-esque moments (falling down to avoid lasers/missiles and the lane-way style gameplay) but not much else on things like if stages had to be cut or if things had to be simplified or not.

I say this because I'm aware Mystic Jungle (thanks to some scene-breaking by darkspinessonic) has multiple levels all in the one stage's model, and that parts are cordoned off so other characters can't access those segments. Also some background details in Casino Forest, such as distorted buildings being entangled in vines make me think some whole area was just cut and reduced to background imagery.

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I'd like to remind a fact (again). To me it tells everything and I don't get why it gets overlooked when people are talking about ST.

For Forces, ST did avoid hiring people experienced with level design and preferred to simply put internal people to the job who never had worked with this role before. A clear sign that the corporation is infested with nepotism.

Don't get started on the "they were offering experience for newbies". Forces was heavily marketed and it was clearly supposed to be a bigger hit than Generations. You don't place your debut young players in a final match.

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Well, I'm not surpirsed that people who worked with sonic team moved on to bigger things, that's expected. Starting off with a smaller studio will help you get your foot into the door within the industy. If you keep ranking up then eventually there will be a stronger chance of a much bigger studio hiring you. 

I'm more concern about the mismanagement and the awful decisions that seem to plauge Sonic Team for so many years. 

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20 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

SEGA is going to have a hard marketing push to make Sonic relevant during that period.

The question "Should and could Sonic become relevant again at all?" comes to my mind. Is he an interesting concept/character at all in this day and age? Just because Mario is doing well doesn't make the anwer an automatic 'yes' IMO. Now I'm no expert at all when it comes to Nintendo, but my impression has been that Nintendo and Mario had a fairly steady good reputation and quality associated with its name during the years. The same thing can't be said about SEGA and Sonic. So if they really want to make Sonic relevant again, it would take a series of quality releases. So far, SEGA/Sonic Team struggles to get 1 quality release out the door, let alone multiple, one after the other. At best, Sonic is a brief 1 hit wonder before it goes back to being shit again. IMO it's hard to become relevant that way.

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4 hours ago, Tarnish said:

The question "Should and could Sonic become relevant again at all?" comes to my mind. Is he an interesting concept/character at all in this day and age? Just because Mario is doing well doesn't make the anwer an automatic 'yes' IMO. Now I'm no expert at all when it comes to Nintendo, but my impression has been that Nintendo and Mario had a fairly steady good reputation and quality associated with its name during the years. The same thing can't be said about SEGA and Sonic. So if they really want to make Sonic relevant again, it would take a series of quality releases. So far, SEGA/Sonic Team struggles to get 1 quality release out the door, let alone multiple, one after the other. At best, Sonic is a brief 1 hit wonder before it goes back to being shit again. IMO it's hard to become relevant that way.

That's a good question, but the simple fact that Sonic is still alive despite the quality of SEGA's output should answer it for you already.

It can definitely be relevant again and there's still a huge appeal in the character, that's the main reason it's still going. It has potential, people know it does and SEGA just doesn't know what to do with it.

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Sonic Team is overestimating Sonic's respect if they're going to just dump it all into a movie. To put this in perspective, Justice League from all evidence underwhelmed and they (or at least Batman and Superman) are much bigger icons than Sonic.

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I feel that I need to restate the following: There hasn't been any entity called "Sonic Team" within Sega in quite a while (around 2005). The name was kept for branding. The division team that was responsible to develop Puyo Puyo Tetris, Mario & Sonic, and Sonic Forces is the same one, yet only one of these mentioned title kept the Sonic Team logo (guess which one).

Granted, since that division so far was the only one that helmed the development of Sonic games since the restructuring, so you may perhaps call them the new Sonic Team (but not really). The point I'm trying to give is that the team that develop the Sonic games is not a fixed team; You should expect people to shuffle in and out.

Now starting here it's all speculation, but If the Forces game felt too shorthanded, it's likely due to resources allocated to that team being concentrated on other projects that was (unfortunately for us) deemed more important for Sega. I wouldn't be too surprised if the 2020 Mario & Sonic game (if there is such a thing) would be that other project (though I would not be able to explain the long development cycle).

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54 minutes ago, FlameStream said:

I feel that I need to restate the following: There hasn't been any entity called "Sonic Team" within Sega in quite a while (around 2005). The name was kept for branding. The division team that was responsible to develop Puyo Puyo Tetris, Mario & Sonic, and Sonic Forces is the same one, yet only one of these mentioned title kept the Sonic Team logo (guess which one).

Granted, since that division so far was the only one that helmed the development of Sonic games since the restructuring, so you may perhaps call them the new Sonic Team (but not really). The point I'm trying to give is that the team that develop the Sonic games is not a fixed team; You should expect people to shuffle in and out.

Now starting here it's all speculation, but If the Forces game felt too shorthanded, it's likely due to resources allocated to that team being concentrated on other projects that was (unfortunately for us) deemed more important for Sega. I wouldn't be too surprised if the 2020 Mario & Sonic game (if there is such a thing) would be that other project (though I would not be able to explain the long development cycle).

So, what you mean is the we have been lied to by SEGA for over a decade?

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5 hours ago, Sonikko said:

That's a good question, but the simple fact that Sonic is still alive despite the quality of SEGA's output should answer it for you already.

It can definitely be relevant again and there's still a huge appeal in the character, that's the main reason it's still going. It has potential, people know it does and SEGA just doesn't know what to do with it.

Being relevant and still being profitable enough to keep milking is IMO 2 different things tho.

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12 hours ago, Almar said:

Sonic Team is overestimating Sonic's respect if they're going to just dump it all into a movie. To put this in perspective, Justice League from all evidence underwhelmed and they (or at least Batman and Superman) are much bigger icons than Sonic.

The Sonic movie better be good. It would not be funny for us Sonic fans and SEGA themselves if it's mediocre/bad, because it will be ridiculed for years and tarnish the Sonic franchise even more. They have to be taking their sweet time with the movie, making sure the storyline is great with some light humor. If they can't do it, trash the movie.

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5 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Didn't Sonic Team "take their sweet time" with Forces?

Sonic Team are not making the movie are they? They are just video game developers.

And considering the "state of Sonic Team" and them losing key people over the years I'm not surprised on how Forces turned out.

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21 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

Sonic Team are not making the movie are they? They are just video game developers.

And considering the "state of Sonic Team" and them losing key people over the years I'm not surprised on how Forces turned out.

What I'm saying is taking their time doesn't guarantee the movie won't suck horrendously.

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On 11/12/2017 at 3:49 AM, Meta77 said:

As much as many will not admit sonic is not the icon he was in the 90s. He is k own but no where near the level of popularity in the early 90s

Seeing as sonic t is over pso and it's coming well if anything they would just hold off on sonic and push full ahead with pso or another property they are not as dire in japan as say America

I strongly believe that if Sonic Team of Japan respectfully fuck off and stop embarassing themselves with half-assed games and crap sub-series (ok, that was America's idea), and SEGA give Taxman's crew the chance to embrace Sonic completely, it can be as iconic and relevant as it was in the 90's. Mania had that feeling, it was more than just a damn good game. I'm sorry if you like and want the 3D games, I do too, believe me, but it's been too many disappoitments and years by of the same broken promises and bullshit, we're not getting any younger too. And to think I was really optimistic after Generations. Sigh.

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3 hours ago, Jango said:

I strongly believe that if Sonic Team of Japan respectfully fuck off and stop embarassing themselves with half-assed games and crap sub-series (ok, that was America's idea), and SEGA give Taxman's crew the chance to embrace Sonic completely, it can be as iconic and relevant as it was in the 90's. Mania had that feeling, it was more than just a damn good game. I'm sorry if you like and want the 3D games, I do too, believe me, but it's been too many disappoitments and years by of the same broken promises and bullshit, we're not getting any younger too. And to think I was really optimistic after Generations. Sigh.

Mania was a good game. it was a nostalgia trip. Noting more than that made by fan that enjoyed the games of the 90s. But say if that is the route they go from now on. Do you expect sales in the millions or for it to become one of those oh heres another 2d sonic game in 4 years. Besides pokemon i can not think of many games hitting millions in the 2d sector anymore.

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