The State of Sonic Team

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

1 hour ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Why would you say that? The Saturn Era and CD had extremely little of Sonic, which I'd say was the beginning of the end. Sonic 1 and 2 were top sellers among the Genesis but CD, Sonic 3 and S&K? Not to mention how the Saturn era didn't have any mainline Sonic games to compete with the PS1 and N64. That really hurt him.

Critical reception started falling but not as it is today but the sales dropped pretty big when looking at Sonic 2 compared to Sonic 3 upon release. This isn't even including how people were just getting tired of the over-saturation with him.

Sonic 3 was not bundled with the genesis, which is why it sold much less. SEGA was focused on pushing hardware in the 90s.

 

Also, Sonic 3 is one of the top 10 highest selling Genesis titles of all time (look it up). Don't forget that the gaming market has expanded considerably since the 90s. Sonic's market share was much, much higher on lower volume because there were FAR less people buying games. 1 mil today is not nearly equivalent to 1 mil in 1994. Sonic 3's sales were still very high relative to the market. It's just that 1&2 were insane due to marketing and packaging.

 

As far as Sonic''s general reputation, it began to drop with Sonic Adventure 2: battle for the GC in 2002 and continued on a downward slope from there to heroes, shadow, then bottoming out with '06.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

3 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Sonic 3 was not bundled with the genesis, which is why it sold much less. SEGA was focused on pushing hardware in the 90s.

 

Also, Sonic 3 is one of the top 10 highest selling Genesis titles of all time (look it up). Don't forget that the gaming market has expanded considerably since the 90s. Sonic's market share was much, much higher on lower volume because there were FAR less people buying games. 1 mil today is not nearly equivalent to 1 mil in 1994. Sonic 3's sales were still very high relative to the market. It's just that 1&2 were insane due to marketing and packaging.

 

As far as Sonic''s general reputation, it began to drop with Sonic Adventure 2: battle for the GC in 2002 and continued on a downward slope from there to heroes, shadow, then bottoming out with '06.

My mistake. I forgot to look at the data numbers and viewed it in modern day inflation. 

 

 

[ChikaBoing]

On 19.12.2017 at 7:04 AM, Phos said:

Hmmm, Sonic Team can't retain their talent?  Makes me curious if this is a problem plaguing other japanese developers (Nintendo headhunting their best staff), or if it speaks to an institutional issue facing Sega.  

Nintendo definitly doesn't headhunt the best staff of other companies.

[molul]

On 20/12/2017 at 5:37 PM, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Sonic 3 was not bundled with the genesis, which is why it sold much less. SEGA was focused on pushing hardware in the 90s.

What a lovely bundle that would have been <3 

[Forgeafrontier]

 Unleashed only had a 2-3 year development cycle and it was such a grand game and still is to this day. Forces, on the other hand, took 4 years to develop and was not only marketed as a huge AAA game. It was also marketed as the most ambitious boost title but shockingly ended up being complete crap. Why?

Note: (This is just something I wanted to get off my chest recently because it bothers me so much how this game was advertized)

[Blue Wisp]

Apparently from those 4 years of development, 3 went into developing the Hedgehog Engine 2.0 with 1 being actual development of Forces or something like that? I need sources on this but that's the version that I got.

And about Sonic Team, a good chunk of the guys that made Unleashed, Generations and Colors were sent to the Olympic Games division and well, compare the credits of Forces to Colors and Unleashed. Guys are gone. 

[Milo]

1 hour ago, Blue Wisp said:

Apparently from those 4 years of development, 3 went into developing the Hedgehog Engine 2.0 with 1 being actual development of Forces or something like that? I need sources on this but that's the version that I got.

"Famitsu: In the back side where 'Sonic Toon' is developing, you 'knocked' what to do with 'Sonic' all the time.

Nakamura: Yes. The project was launched four years ago, and we first advanced basic research on new technologies and new engines. A year later, I formed a small team, and finally full-scale production began last year around last year. This time it was longer than usual."

Roughly translated by Google, but more accurate translators have confirmed that's what was said. First year was spent on engine development, two years on limited game development with a small team, one/final year on full game development (presumably by the full/larger team).

[Blue Wisp]

2 minutes ago, Space☆Yeow said:

one/final year on full game development (presumably by the full/larger team).

One year to develop a game after Sonic Lost World shat on all the good progress you did with half of Unleashed/Colors/Generations for being so damn generic and such a drastic change..

After you KNEW Sonic Mania was a thing before the community even knew about it.

One fucking year.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

3 hours ago, Blue Wisp said:

And about Sonic Team, a good chunk of the guys that made Unleashed, Generations and Colors were sent to the Olympic Games division and well,

One problem with that, the last Olympic game, Rio, was finished on June 23, 2016. More then a year before Forces' launch, so that team could have been transferred back to Sonic Forces development. In fact, the Rio game being completed might have been the exact moment when full production began.
And I'm not sure if they're making more Mario/Sonic games, didn't Sega/ Nintendo lose the license to make Olympic games? There sure isn't a PyeongChang game out now.

Altough I still agree you're right and most of the Unleashed/ Generations team is gone. Most likely to work on Mario Kart/ Mario Odyssey, altough we can always secretly hope they're working on a brand new Proper Sonic game behind the scenes. After all, Unleashed was already in construction during Sonic 06's production.

[Blue Wisp]

11 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

One problem with that, the last Olympic game, Rio, was finished on June 23, 2016. More then a year before Forces' launch, so that team could have been transferred back to Sonic Forces development. In fact, the Rio game being completed might have been the exact moment when full production began.
And I'm not sure if they're making more Mario/Sonic games, didn't Sega/ Nintendo lose the license to make Olympic games? There sure isn't a PyeongChang game out now.

If SEGA were a competent company then yes they should have been sent back to Sonic Team after working on the (mediocre) Rio game. But nope. The Gens/Colors team is gone leaving the guy that made Sonic Lost Why the director of Sonic Forces His Way Back To Mediocrity.

Guess Sonic can't last too much on the (subjective considering Boost formula has its detractors) good side after all. Always doomed to fall to mediocre games only for some day a glimmer of hope to shine upon this God forsaken series.

[Celestia]

Haven't some of the names that have gone missing been found in the credits of certain recent Nintendo games? It honestly seems like SEGA either fired them (which would be baffling but who fucking knows what goes on behind the scenes with this company) or they just...quit (can't blame 'em considering shit like Boom went down in the years following Gens and LW).

[RedFox99]

1 hour ago, Celestia said:

Haven't some of the names that have gone missing been found in the credits of certain recent Nintendo games? It honestly seems like SEGA either fired them (which would be baffling but who fucking knows what goes on behind the scenes with this company) or they just...quit (can't blame 'em considering shit like Boom went down in the years following Gens and LW).

Which kind of makes you wonder how long Sonic Team will last. Things aren't really looking good for them considering how Headcanon pretty much upstaged them with Mania. Granted, it seems like Forces did rather decently and apparently, some PS4 users were allowed to give their feedback on Forces, so maybe there's hope for Iizuka and the others.

[Mad Convoy]

40 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Which kind of makes you wonder how long Sonic Team will last. Things aren't really looking good for them considering how Headcanon pretty much upstaged them with Mania. It seems like Forces did rather decently and apparently, some PS4 users were allowed to give their feedback on Forces, so maybe there's hope for Iizuka and the others.

I dunno. I found an interview with the brand manager, Ivo Gershovich. (Linked here: http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/02/28/sonic-the-hedgehog-interview-movie-video-games-sxsw/) Though I have no confirmation, it reads like it was company planned and paid (meaning that Sega chose the questions to ask as well as the person to do it, which gives it an advantage in regard to mislead readers by glossing over important stuff since it can account for the interviewer's biases, tweak the wording of questions in the best way for PR, and eliminate any difficult ones altogether). Despite that, it can still provide some insights on what Sega is thinking right now. (Bolding mine)

Quote

How well did the Sonic franchise excel as a whole last year?

Obviously Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces definitely helped. Fortunately, the success of Sonic Mania really helped bring back a lot of our core fans. Many new, exciting new licensed products were developed based on this game across apparel and other areas. Additionally, the launch of Sonic Forces on console and Speed Battle on mobile helped us reach a much wider audience of new and existing fans. We can’t wait to share more about what’s coming up in the near future.

Looks like Sega is really, really happy with how Sonic has done this year. Not too surprising-- outside of the internet hardcore Sonic and gamer bubble, I find that people actually don't mind Forces if they don't like it and like Mania decently enough. And if the interview was indeed paid and planned by Sega... well, why would it pay for a question with wording like "how well" and "excel" which, if Sega wasn't happy with how Sonic is doing, would set up Ivo to fail badly?

Honestly, I can see where you're getting this question from considering all the doom and gloom. But this happens whenever a Sonic game disappoints or fails, and that doesn't necessarily mean that Sonic, Sonic Team, or Sega as a whole are doing bad or ruined forever. In fact, it usually means the opposite in that there's something good on the horizon. I mean, hop in the Delorean and ask somebody in 1995, 2006, or 2014 how Sonic's future looks and the answer will probably be something to the essence of "non-existent", said with absolute certainty. Didn't turn out that way. Then take that Delorean and go to 2008 and you'll be told, with absolute certainty, that Sonic's future is all 2D and Dimps because Sonic Unleashed (particularly HD) and the rest of Modern Sonic after SA1 are terrible. Didn't turn out that way.

I can't make guarantees about Sonic's future, but here's what I'm almost entirely certain is true-- Sonic Team and the Sonic franchise are both doing just fine.