Why does Shadow still look down on Sonic in some ways

[Dash Speed]

He considers him his equal in every respect but in some games finds him pathetic and beneath him outside of fighting him or saving the world with him. Shouldn't he be more grateful towards him, Shadow barely shows him any feeling of gratitude, it's usually Sonic that shows it his way. I guess Sega wants him to stay the hardcore edgy badass that is mean and tough but well meaning deep down stereotype. This also seem to apply to his interact with Sonic's main crew, maybe not Tails depending on what game it is.

[Diogenes]

Because he's a dick.

[edgeyhedgey]

Because of his somtimes self absorbed nature, he belives sonics behavior is inferior to his "ultimate lifeform" mind and dislikes being compared to him. (Thats just my interpritation tho)

[Bowbowis]

Pride is part of it. Shadow has a massive ego, after all, he was expressly created to be the ultimate lifeform, admitting anyone is as good as he is would be like calling himself a failure. It's not helped by his and Sonic's contrasting personalities either. Shadow respects Sonic's abilities and heroism (probably more than he'd care to admit) but, on a personal level, the straight-laced, and reserved Shadow naturally finds Sonic's talkative, upbeat, joker persona overbearing and obnoxious. Additionally, Shadow is a GUN agent who approaches his work with efficiency and professionalism, somebody who would view Sonic's impulsive and dare-devilish behavior as reckless and irresponsible.

Essentially, Shadow sees Sonic as somebody who has natural talent and a good heart, but who needs to grow up and learn some responsibility before he can be openly acknowledged as an equal (or at least as a close second).

[MetalSkulkBane]

I think you're exaggerating a bit. I don't remember when was the last time Shadow looked down at Sonic (Boom doesn't count.) Maybe in Free Riders, but that game had terrible characterization on Team Dark.

But if you insist.

1 He's not good at showing emotions, especially positive ones.

2 Big ego, combined with Sonic's inability to take anything seriously (which may annoy Shadow)

[McGroose]

Not only is Shadow a dick as Diogenes put it, he's an arrogant dick. He'll get his ass kicked by Sonic and mumble to himself "didn't count".

[Dash Speed]

2 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Pride is part of it. Shadow has a massive ego, after all, he was expressly created to be the ultimate lifeform, admitting anyone is as good as he is would be like calling himself a failure. It's not helped by his and Sonic's contrasting personalities either. Shadow respects Sonic's abilities and heroism (probably more than he'd care to admit) but, on a personal level, the straight-laced, and reserved Shadow naturally finds Sonic's talkative, upbeat, joker persona overbearing and obnoxious. Additionally, Shadow is a GUN agent who approaches his work with efficiency and professionalism, somebody who would view Sonic's impulsive and dare-devilish behavior as reckless and irresponsible.

Essentially, Shadow sees Sonic as somebody who has natural talent and a good heart, but who needs to grow up and learn some responsibility before he can be openly acknowledged as an equal (or at least as a close second).

This neither credited true nor shown or implied in any media, including the side games. I'm just gonna go with what everyone says, he's a dick and hates fun. Shadow in the Mario games, considers Sonic a idiotic loser, so yeah gonna go with condescending dick. Doesn't explain Shadow's problem with Sonic being annoyed with his behavior when Sonic usually does things that help his goals more than hinder him.

[Shadowlax]

1) I don't think shadow considers him his equal. Not just because he can just do a bunch of shit sonic can't do, but because he has a history and back story so above and beyond all others in terms of general complications. While it may seem egotistical his outwardly harsh nature when dealing with others is because he feels bad about himself, he's a monster, weapon ect. He may have gotten over a lot of his shenanigans, but you never really get over everything. 

2) Shadow saves the world all the time, and probably doesn't really gets a thank you for it. While isn't canon, the idea is that shadow with GUN or whatever he works for now if sega is ridding sonic of GUN is going on world saving missions all the time. And they probably don't really get much in way of thank you's its his job. And while it isn't technically sonic's job, sonic chooses to do it. So... Probably doesn't really feel the need to say anything. 

3) And I say this with love, who gives a shit? Why do you care if shadow doesn't thank sonic, shadow doesn't thank a lot of people, he's not that type of guy. Further more in a series where most of the cast has been relegated to background now. A character who doesn't bother telling sonic why he's cool all the fucking time is actually refreshing. I like the sonic boom interpretation where the village, and even sometimes his friends, didn't really care to much he did a cool thing  " you saved the day who gives a shit. Get back to life" . I like that, I like that more people don't really care sonic did something. And I would like the cast to take more of that attitude. Sonic isn't some golden god, he's a dude. And sometimes you do a good thing and no one says thank you. There are times in writing where that thank you  may actually be important. And that missing thank you may be indicative of some missing characterization ( see team dark ). But shadow and sonic aren't close enough to require that, I don't really think sonic would tell shadow thanks. Shadow know he did a good thing, now move on with his fucking life. 

People trying to create some ego excuse when the reality of it is he probably goes " he knows what he did. He doesn't need me wasting his time " and then goes away. Shadow is a guy who if his personality was distilled in a few lines one of those lines would be " Don't waste my time " , and so he chooses to not waste others. He's the guy who legit murder himself if it meant everyone else got more time on the clock. I'm sure sonic knows shadow respects him. He doesn't need him saying, and vice versa.

If this was a discussion about the members of team dark, this would have more merit. They are on a team, they are friends, they would actually be addressing each other in such manner and fail to do so. And Forces adds onto that, in a very bad way. If this was an issue with team sonic, sure. But its two dudes who don't know eachother two well, aren't really friends, aren't really on the same team and don't really trust each other that much. To put this in perspective, poorly written or not, sonic in forces is the only one who speaks about shadow before they find out he was a fake that doesn't actively trust him and already assumed that he's just a bad guy. He doesn't ask questions, he gets upset, so he isn't even the guy's friend he wouldn't even stick up for him when everyone else was trying to find an explanation for why he's a bad guy. Do you think those guy's hang out enough to care if one of em says " hey you did a good job" ? No. ( also rouge didn't say a goddamn thing but again, another discussion ) 

[Balding Spider]

Because Shadow isn't allowed to progress as a character, much like most of the cast. And well I doubt anyone in Sonic Team/ localization team care enough to give him a new one.

[Diogenes]

Considering most of the cast is friendly and respectful towards Sonic, having Shadow stop being a dick to him would probably be a pretty boring direction for them to develop him in.

[Tornado]

On 12/12/2017 at 8:50 PM, Santamus Prime said:

Because Shadow isn't allowed to progress as a character, much like most of the cast. And well I doubt anyone in Sonic Team/ localization team care enough to give him a new one.

Character progression does not require the scrubbing of character flaws. Vegeta has had more development than anyone in the Sonic series would ever be able to dream about.

 

He's still kind of a dick.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

i don't think that it is that he looks down on Sonic. i think it's more so that he doesn't care much about him or what he does. 

[PandaChao]

Shadow is just jealous that he can't be as good as Sonic.

[Shadowlax]

4 hours ago, Sonikku. said:

i don't think that it is that he looks down on Sonic. i think it's more so that he doesn't care much about him or what he does. 

Yeah.

I know this idea might be foreign to some people. But not all the characters are friends, 

[Dash Speed]

On 12/12/2017 at 8:45 PM, Shadowlax said:

1) I don't think shadow considers him his equal. Not just because he can just do a bunch of shit sonic can't do, but because he has a history and back story so above and beyond all others in terms of general complications. While it may seem egotistical his outwardly harsh nature when dealing with others is because he feels bad about himself, he's a monster, weapon ect. He may have gotten over a lot of his shenanigans, but you never really get over everything. 

This is what the manuals say, it's implied Shadow considers in game Shadow respects Sonic as a equal which the source manuals elaborate.

On 12/12/2017 at 8:45 PM, Shadowlax said:

2) Shadow saves the world all the time, and probably doesn't really gets a thank you for it. While isn't canon, the idea is that shadow with GUN or whatever he works for now if sega is ridding sonic of GUN is going on world saving missions all the time. And they probably don't really get much in way of thank you's its his job. And while it isn't technically sonic's job, sonic chooses to do it. So... Probably doesn't really feel the need to say anything. 

I think you are exaggerating things. Shadow caring about doing his job is hardly an issue when when we see him in Sonic Forces. He's more reserved and serious about doing world saving but his missions from GUN or Rouge are not Shadow's intent to work towards, like Sonic he chooses to do whatever he needs to save the world.

On 12/12/2017 at 8:45 PM, Shadowlax said:

3) And I say this with love, who gives a shit? Why do you care if shadow doesn't thank sonic, shadow doesn't thank a lot of people, he's not that type of guy. Further more in a series where most of the cast has been relegated to background now. A character who doesn't bother telling sonic why he's cool all the fucking time is actually refreshing. I like the sonic boom interpretation where the village, and even sometimes his friends, didn't really care to much he did a cool thing  " you saved the day who gives a shit. Get back to life" . I like that, I like that more people don't really care sonic did something. And I would like the cast to take more of that attitude. Sonic isn't some golden god, he's a dude. And sometimes you do a good thing and no one says thank you. There are times in writing where that thank you  may actually be important. And that missing thank you may be indicative of some missing characterization ( see team dark ). But shadow and sonic aren't close enough to require that, I don't really think sonic would tell shadow thanks. Shadow know he did a good thing, now move on with his fucking life. 

People trying to create some ego excuse when the reality of it is he probably goes " he knows what he did. He doesn't need me wasting his time " and then goes away. Shadow is a guy who if his personality was distilled in a few lines one of those lines would be " Don't waste my time " , and so he chooses to not waste others. He's the guy who legit murder himself if it meant everyone else got more time on the clock. I'm sure sonic knows shadow respects him. He doesn't need him saying, and vice versa.

If this was a discussion about the members of team dark, this would have more merit. They are on a team, they are friends, they would actually be addressing each other in such manner and fail to do so. And Forces adds onto that, in a very bad way. If this was an issue with team sonic, sure. But its two dudes who don't know eachother two well, aren't really friends, aren't really on the same team and don't really trust each other that much. To put this in perspective, poorly written or not, sonic in forces is the only one who speaks about shadow before they find out he was a fake that doesn't actively trust him and already assumed that he's just a bad guy. He doesn't ask questions, he gets upset, so he isn't even the guy's friend he wouldn't even stick up for him when everyone else was trying to find an explanation for why he's a bad guy. Do you think those guy's hang out enough to care if one of em says " hey you did a good job" ? No. ( also rouge didn't say a goddamn thing but again, another discussion ) 

Shadow to Sonic should be more cordial and mannerly as allies, but Shadow is still acting like Sonic is a loser, a means to an end, or just a jerk. Archie Shadow was much nicer and concerned for Sonic than Shadow ever was to Sonic in the games.

Shadow has a big and self absorbed smug ego like Sonic, he pretty much has no time to spend trying to make nice nice to people he is better than. Why are you so defensive abotu Shadow being arrogant and callous to others outside of missions, thats probably why Shadow isn't shown as much as Knuckles or Amy. No one wants to see a friendly Shadow.

Shadow knows Sonic he his equal/rival in every respect(Sonic Rivals 2 manual).

Sonic admits the only one who could match him in a race is Shadow(official sonic interview by sonic team).

I say they know each as rivals and main allies, plus Sonic cares about Shadow than most of his rivals to be worried about him turning evil while Shadow trusts Sonic more than most anyone outside of Rouge and Omega.

[Shadowlax]

4 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

This is what the manuals say, it's implied Shadow considers in game Shadow respects Sonic as a equal which the source manuals elaborate.

Manuals say a lot of shit, its never been true. From Shadow's debut game, shadow at the end of the day doesn't care about sonic that much and generally has his own life. Sonic and Shadow are at best work acquaintances and their work is " saving the world" . Manuals and Sega can put up info abort whatever, but at the end of the day its about how you portray those characters in your product . And in the product they kind don't give two shit about each other really. 

4 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

I think you are exaggerating things. Shadow caring about doing his job is hardly an issue when when we see him in Sonic Forces. He's more reserved and serious about doing world saving but his missions from GUN or Rouge are not Shadow's intent to work towards, like Sonic he chooses to do whatever he needs to save the world.

Shadow does missions for gun, and helps rouge. That is his intent, he choose to do that. 

Do you think shadow has to work for them? No, Shadow could literally blow up gun , by himself... right now, he could just leave rouge and team dark behind. He actively makes the decision to do what he does because he wants to help people. 

4 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow to Sonic should be more cordial and mannerly as allies, but Shadow is still acting like Sonic is a loser, a means to an end, or just a jerk. Archie Shadow was much nicer and concerned for Sonic than Shadow ever was to Sonic in the games.

Shadow saves sonic's life several times and they don't generally get to talk much. I would imagine that if they were in a comic book setting, ( or the games had better writing ) things where shadow and sonic are just talking might exist. As far as the comics are concerned, he isn't mannerly or cordial. He's strait to the point like with everyone else, I guess that was that weird period in the comic where it was bad... but everyone was shitty and bad and out of character during that. And even during that point shadow didn't appear much. 

4 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow has a big and self absorbed smug ego like Sonic, he pretty much has no time to spend trying to make nice nice to people he is better than. Why are you so defensive abotu Shadow being arrogant and callous to others outside of missions, thats probably why Shadow isn't shown as much as Knuckles or Amy. No one wants to see a friendly Shadow.

I'm not defensive about shadow being kind of a dick... its why I like him. That said I am saying he isn't self absorbed... he has a lot of hang up and insecurities... its also why I like his character. Also to use your example, while shadow is strait to the point in the comics he generally talks to people fine, and even when he was fighting knuckles he was trying to help him. Shadow has been " friendly" for years. He's just not happy and smiely , and that's ok. But you seem to not understand the character...at all

4 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow knows Sonic he his equal/rival in every respect(Sonic Rivals 2 manual).

Again, manuals don't mean shit really. Especially from a game that's probably not relevant or canon anymore and that no played. Especially when the character actively doesn't act or acknowledge this ever.

4 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Sonic admits the only one who could match him in a race is Shadow(official sonic interview by sonic team).

I guess sonic would say that. Shadow's pretty fast. I don't know what that has to do with anything, 

4 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

I say they know each as rivals and main allies, plus Sonic cares about Shadow than most of his rivals to be worried about him turning evil while Shadow trusts Sonic more than most anyone outside of Rouge and Omega.

I don't think sonic cares about shadow that much, again. To bring up the " show don't tell " the last like, sega made games that had a story with shadow in it. Which is Forces and the mobile game weirdly enough. Sonic doesn't actually care too much to investigate shadow. In the mobile game, its knuckles who's kinda upset shadow leaves so soon. And in forces everyone else is concerned about why shadow is a bad guy but not sonic. And when shadow is found out to be fine, sonic literally doesn't mention it all. 

 

I know this might be hard to believe, but sonic and shadow aren't friends never really cared about each other outside of " hey this person can help me save the world " and that's totally fine. And the reason shadow doesn't talk to sonic isn't because he has a arrogant attitude. Its because he's soft spoken, doesn't talk to anyone much and actually doesn't care about sonic. Not everyone cares about the character you care, about. And that's ok. That makes the world interesting

[molul]

Classic Japanese "serious-and-tough-guy-who-is-actually-good-but-will-never-show-it" character. You can see this in almost any anime series.

Knuckles was this type of character in Sonic 3, but he changed to a different role, and Sonic Team created Shadow to fill that role.

I thought Shadow would always be Sonic's bad clone in every sense, but it seems Sega is fine with just Metal Sonic for this role.

[Dash Speed]

16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Manuals say a lot of shit, its never been true. From Shadow's debut game, shadow at the end of the day doesn't care about sonic that much and generally has his own life. Sonic and Shadow are at best work acquaintances and their work is " saving the world" . Manuals and Sega can put up info abort whatever, but at the end of the day its about how you portray those characters in your product . And in the product they kind don't give two shit about each other really. 

It is true, it's canon and stated by the official source that Sonic Team themselves said, Shadow cares about Sonic as much as being his one true rival goes. Period. You just confirmed you reject canon to confirm views you skew in gameplay or freakin cutscenes.

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Shadow does missions for gun, and helps rouge. That is his intent, he choose to do that. 

Uh thats what I said.

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Do you think shadow has to work for them? No, Shadow could literally blow up gun , by himself... right now, he could just leave rouge and team dark behind. He actively makes the decision to do what he does because he wants to help people. 

No, he just wants to protect the planet for himself, not because he wants to save people who he still hates.

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Shadow saves sonic's life several times and they don't generally get to talk much. I would imagine that if they were in a comic book setting, ( or the games had better writing ) things where shadow and sonic are just talking might exist. As far as the comics are concerned, he isn't mannerly or cordial. He's strait to the point like with everyone else, I guess that was that weird period in the comic where it was bad... but everyone was shitty and bad and out of character during that. And even during that point shadow didn't appear much. 

So just because they don't conform to your expectations in behavior they are badly written and out of character, even though Shadow's consistant in being buisness like and cold hearted in saying things. Through out he's super friendly as far as him and hope goes, and he makes amends to interact with Amy and Blaze, plus through out the entire comic he's never taunted Sonic back or acted like a asshole to him like he does in the games, thats a far cry from being badly written, sure it's ooc and I hate but I see why people like it.

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I'm not defensive about shadow being kind of a dick... its why I like him. That said I am saying he isn't self absorbed... he has a lot of hang up and insecurities... its also why I like his character. Also to use your example, while shadow is strait to the point in the comics he generally talks to people fine, and even when he was fighting knuckles he was trying to help him. Shadow has been " friendly" for years. He's just not happy and smiely , and that's ok. But you seem to not understand the character...at all

Shadow? Insecurites? Where? Source? The comics? Shadow being friendly isn't a luxury which is what you just said and you said he doesn't need to be friendly to Sonic.

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Again, manuals don't mean shit really. Especially from a game that's probably not relevant or canon anymore and that no played. Especially when the character actively doesn't act or acknowledge this ever.

Uh yes they do. Your losing your credibility to debate each rebuttal dude. Sonic Generations just freaking confirm Shadow still has personal score with trying to face Sonic and best him on one on one combat.

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I guess sonic would say that. Shadow's pretty fast. I don't know what that has to do with anything, 

I don't think sonic cares about shadow that much, again. To bring up the " show don't tell " the last like, sega made games that had a story with shadow in it. Which is Forces and the mobile game weirdly enough. Sonic doesn't actually care too much to investigate shadow. In the mobile game, its knuckles who's kinda upset shadow leaves so soon. And in forces everyone else is concerned about why shadow is a bad guy but not sonic. And when shadow is found out to be fine, sonic literally doesn't mention it all. 

Sonic was surprised through out the game why Shadow was attacking him, he's one of the few people he respect as a ally and rival to never turn evil, Sonic never takes his rivals seriously and is always the same easygoing daredevil around him. Sonic takes Shadow seriously and never shows any worry about anything unless it's either  Shadow doing something against his own values or his friends being in great peril.

So it's safe to assume Thats how Shadow and Sonic are close rivals and a shows interest in each other, both of them are the worlds greatest heroes in Shth and both of them can rival each other in combat, speed and super forms, both have different ways of stopping evil and come to blows as competitive or as foes.

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I know this might be hard to believe, but sonic and shadow aren't friends never really cared about each other outside of " hey this person can help me save the world " and that's totally fine. And the reason shadow doesn't talk to sonic isn't because he has a arrogant attitude. Its because he's soft spoken, doesn't talk to anyone much and actually doesn't care about sonic. Not everyone cares about the character you care, about. And that's ok. That makes the world interesting

I'm pretty sure you are wrong, as show in every game prior to not seeing the signs you deliberately choose to ignore. There not friends but they have a great important tie to one another and are each others most respected rival in every way. Shadow does care about Sonic by the way, as shown in Sonic 06, Sonic Colors DS and Sonic Generations but it's in a hostile big brother sort of way like Knuckles used to be. Sonic always holds Shadow in high reguard and always takes his aid to stop something to big for him, tails and knuckles. If you can't see this then you really don't play the games you claim to know about.

[AzureLakeSanic]

I always found him like Bass lmao

[DabigRG]

He doesn't...? 

Is there something in Rivals or Free Riders to that effect? Cause otherwise everyone of Shadow's appearances past 06 has had him as an aloof ally.

Oh and Generations vaguely implies that the Shadow you fight is the one from Sonic Adventure 2.

[Shadowlax]

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

He doesn't...? 

Is there something in Rivals or Free Riders to that effect? Cause otherwise everyone of Shadow's appearances past 06 has had him as an aloof ally.

Oh and Generations vaguely implies that the Shadow you fight is the one from Sonic Adventure 2.

Hold on hold on

He does look down on sonic's ability to build furniture purchased from Swedish furniture manufacturers 

[EzSonic01]

Because Shadow is Sonic's arch-rival, and has been since his introduction in Sonic Adventure 2. He's an occasional ally to Sonic but they're not friends. Even then, I can't see how he "looks down" on Sonic. He's a pretty serious guy who isn't seen smiling often, but that doesn't mean he does not respect Sonic or his abilities. Another interpretation could lie on their personalities, and probably Shadow cannot really stand Sonic's outgoing, extroverted attitude.

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Hold on hold on

He does look down on sonic's ability to build furniture purchased from Swedish furniture manufacturers 

His shoddy craftsmanship did bring shame to all Hedgehogkind.

Different universe, dood.

[AzureLakeSanic]

On 12/13/2017 at 8:31 PM, PandaChao said:

Shadow is just jealous that he can't be as good as Sonic.

Exactly!!!!!