The Classic Sonic Timeline. [SPOILERS]

[ClassicKnuckles]

1 minute ago, MainJP said:

For the record, SA mentions the events of CD:

 

HOLY HECK

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN

BUT THE ADVENTURE ERA IS OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED AS A SEPERATE DIMENSION 

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?!

[Razule]

2 hours ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

Okay. This kind of gets confusing. It can't take place after Sonic 3, because of Mecha Sonic, but it can't take place before, because it wouldn't fit into the timeline. What if Sonic CD just didn't happen at all? Maybe it's in the timeline where Tails never met Sonic, and the Chaos Emeralds were replaced with the Time Stones. Maybe Metal Sonic was built during the events of Sonic Adventure? (You can see Metal Sonic in a test tube in the Egg Carrier if I'm correct.)

Mecha Sonic doesn't stop Sonic CD from being after 3. And it could always be between 1 and 2

11 minutes ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

HOLY HECK

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN

BUT THE ADVENTURE ERA IS OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED AS A SEPERATE DIMENSION 

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?!

The Adventure era is the same continuity as the current games.

[ClassicKnuckles]

Just now, Razule said:

Mecha Sonic doesn't stop Sonic CD from being after 3. And it could always be between 1 and 2

Bleh. I meant before. Also, if it were after three... Then where is Tails? In the classic era, Tails is said to be obsessed with Sonic, and he's said to follow him everywhere. It also can't take place in between 1 and 2, because Metal Sonic is better than Silver and Mecha, so why wouldn't he use Metal? Also, your profile picture looks amazing and terrifying all at once.

[Sean]

Metal Sonic was designed to best Sonic in a straight-up race. Mecha Sonic on the other hand is more of a combat robot.

[ClassicKnuckles]

3 minutes ago, Sean said:

Metal Sonic was designed to best Sonic in a straight-up race. Mecha Sonic on the other hand is more of a combat robot.

Though one would assume that Metal Sonic is a natural progression of Mecha and Silver Sonic, especially since the previous two robots failed, but Metal Sonic is still in use today. Why would Robotnik create Metal Sonic, then Silver Sonic, then Mecha, and then back to Metal... It doesn't really make sense to me. Also, what if CD is a prequel to Chaotix? Also, what if in some way, Sonic Jam is canon?

[Sean]

1 minute ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

Why would Robotnik create Metal Sonic, then Silver Sonic, then Mecha, and then back to Metal... It doesn't really make sense to me.

Because Sonic 2 and Sonic CD were by two different sets of developers and they both coincidentally had the idea to create an evil robot version of Sonic.

[ClassicKnuckles]

Just now, Sean said:

Because Sonic 2 and Sonic CD were by two different sets of developers and they both coincidentally had the idea to create an evil robot version of Sonic.

I'm not thinking of this from a development standpoint, I'm thinking of in-universe canon.

[Sean]

That's the best explanation you're going to get because I guarantee the developers put way less thought into the "timeline" than fans have. Eggman switching between Metal and Mecha for different purposes is just the way things happened in the games. I don't really see the problem with it, it always felt to me that Metal was meant to be speed-based at the cost of power, and Mecha much more suited for head-on combat with less emphasis on keeping up with Sonic.

 

As for why Metal is still in use today and not Mecha:

Spoiler

he's more iconic to the series than Mecha Sonic is

 

[Almar]

47 minutes ago, MainJP said:

For the record, SA mentions the events of CD:

 

You might want to check the Japanese text for that NPC Talk. Not I'm doubting it's possible that an NPC referenced Sonic CD. Does Windii post here?

[ClassicKnuckles]

1 minute ago, Almar said:

You might want to check the Japanese text for that NPC Talk. Not I'm doubting it's possible that an NPC referenced Sonic CD. Does Windii post here?

Wait... What?

[MainJP]

5 minutes ago, Almar said:

You might want to check the Japanese text for that NPC Talk. Not I'm doubting it's possible that an NPC referenced Sonic CD. Does Windii post here?

That's the E3 trial. It's translated from the Japanese script which is where the classic era references are from:

http://kurohaai.tumblr.com/post/91270478340/click-on-pictures-to-see-the-captions-ive

 

[ClassicKnuckles]

7 minutes ago, MainJP said:

That's the E3 trial. It's translated from the Japanese script which is where the classic era references are from:

http://kurohaai.tumblr.com/post/91270478340/click-on-pictures-to-see-the-captions-ive

 

So does that mean that it didn't appear in the final game? Or did it appear just in the Japanese version? I don't recall ever seeing it in Adventure.

[Almar]

Hmm. Well, there's no doubt that Sonic Adventure was meant to continue from the Classic era. The JP version being more open about it just makes it more sure that was the plan.

We can thrown Two Worlds and Two Sonics in the unneeded retcon bin.

[ClassicKnuckles]

Just now, Almar said:

Hmm. Well, there's no doubt that Sonic Adventure was meant to continue from the Classic era. The JP version being more open about it just makes it more sure that was the plan.

We can thrown Two Worlds and Two Sonics in the unneeded retcon bin.

But it makes no sense

 

Why does Sonic look completely different and why is there so many different things when comparing the two characters?

[MainJP]

4 minutes ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

So does that mean that it didn't appear in the final game? Or did it appear just in the Japanese version? I don't recall ever seeing it in Adventure.

It is in the final game. In Japan.

[ClassicKnuckles]

Just now, MainJP said:

It is in the final game. In Japan.

This is confusing. In the original concept for Generations, there was 3 Sonics. Classic, Dreamcast, and Modern. Does that mean they're all in one timeline, or does Forces retcon that idea? Is Forces a reboot/seperate timeline?

[Almar]

Just now, ClassicKnuckles said:

Why does Sonic look completely different

He got a new design for the new millenium.

3 minutes ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

why is there so many different things when comparing the two characters?

Like what?

[ClassicKnuckles]

Just now, Almar said:

Like what?

Sonic acts different, sounds comepletely different has green eyes, longer spines, is taller, less fat, etc.

[MainJP]

5 minutes ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

sounds comepletely different 

Before Sonic Adventure Sonic had only spoken in CD and SegaSonic The Hedgehog and each time he had a different voice actor. Does that really count?

When Generations released I'm sure we just assumed he hit a growth spurt.

Green eyes could've been down to a simple stylistic choice. Sonic didn't receive blue eyelids until Heroes and Battle for instance.

[ClassicKnuckles]

1 minute ago, MainJP said:

Before Sonic Adventure Sonic had only spoken in CD and SegaSonic The Hedgehog and each time he had a different voice actor. Does that really count?

When Generations released I'm sure we just assumed he hit a growth spurt.

Green eyes could've been down to a simple stylistic choice. Sonic didn't receive blue eyelids until Heroes and Battle for instance.

I mean, he undeniably looks pretty different.

[Razule]

Continuity in Sonic is loose and fluctuates depending on Sonic Team's desires. Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic were one being in different points in time, now they're dimensional counterparts of each other. 

Until Generations, Classic and Modern Sonic were simply the same character but in different art-styles. Hence, flashbacks to the older games in Adventure used the character's modern designs and Modern Sonic was used in Sonic 4, because from SEGA's point of view, there was simply no distinction. Modern Sonic was his current design and that was that. After Generations, Classic Sonic became explicitly "Sonic's past self" and implied that a distinction actually existed in-universe. Classic Sonic became Modern Sonic. And now, post-Forces, Classic Sonic and his adventures happened in their own little Classic dimension. Probably so they can use Classic Sonic as much as they want without thinking about the timeline.

[MainJP]

1 minute ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

I mean, he undeniably looks pretty different.

It depends. Compare his artwork from 3D Blast to Adventure.

Under Uekawas trademark "Adventure" art style they don't look so different. LW and Runners Sonic had shorter spines and lighter fur similar to Classic.

[ClassicKnuckles]

40 minutes ago, MainJP said:

It depends. Compare his artwork from 3D Blast to Adventure.

Under Uekawas trademark "Adventure" art style they don't look so different. LW and Runners Sonic had shorter spines and lighter fur similar to Classic.

Woah... I never actually noticed... I find Classic Sonic art (especially early art) fascinating... I also find early merchandise fascinating, specfically the ambitious ones, like the early 1991 3D Sonic perfume bottle that actually got the spikes right!

[Salamander]

I always thought Modern Sonic looked like an evolution of Sonic's S3&K sprite anyway.  Darker blue, longer quills, quills growing outwards from the head rather than the line of the skull being visible at the back, etc.  Modern Sonic was never a radically different design, it was just drawn in a different way.  As for all the spin-offs, continuity in Sonic has always been light enough to allow for any number of those, because the games don't actually reference one another very often.  To introduce multiple timelines is to think far too hard about something that's fundamentally very simple - while the new division of Classic and Modern Sonic exists purely for corporate and marketing reasons and can be safely dismissed as being in any way narratively necessary.  Although it does mark the point at which we can be certain the developers themselves no longer hold series continuity in any regard whatsoever.

[Razule]

6 hours ago, FFWF said:

Although it does mark the point at which we can be certain the developers themselves no longer hold series continuity in any regard whatsoever.

I think the point that was marked was when Iizuka said every game was in it's own bubble.  (Anyone have a link to that interview btw?)

And considering this "classic and modern dimensions" and "two worlds" stuff now, maybe he's right.. Every game has it's own little version of the Sonic continuity. Maybe that's the most sensible way to view it now without getting headaches. Even the most minor things that could be explained away easily. Why's Classic from another dimension when he was in the past before? Why's there suddenly a seventh Chaos Emerald in 2? Different universes! It's all different universes! Assume everything else happened in broad strokes in a way that fits the current game's newest BS and you're good to go.