Super Sonic DLC for Forces out Dec 22 - €1.99, Free Until Jan 23

[JezMM]

2 hours ago, Rummy said:

It's not on PC Yet uh.

It's there, but I had to manually search for it in the store, rather than it being in the list when you click on "DLC" in the sidebar for the game in your library.  I think said list updates in a delayed manner, since I had the same deal with the Sanic t-shirts when those launched.

[Tarnish]

16 hours ago, Ultimate Victory 64 said:

A form that has been free for 25 years is now paid DLC instead of an free unlockable.

Sega what are you EA?

And with that, the last remaining drops of respect I had for SEGA/Sonic Team just went down the toilet.

[JezMM]

Comparing SEGA to big companies like EA over this is going a bit too far for sure.  I mean they had the perfect opportunity to try out the ol' loot box game with the Avatar's customisable parts here and they didn't take it so I don't think they're quite on that level of nonsense yet.

[Rummy]

7 minutes ago, JezMM said:

It's there, but I had to manually search for it in the store, rather than it being in the list when you click on "DLC" in the sidebar for the game in your library.  I think said list updates in a delayed manner, since I had the same deal with the Sanic t-shirts when those launched.

Thanks, wasn't planning on playing it and i only just wanted the dlc on hand. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

So...

Quote

Switch version here.
I can’t play Stage 8 with Shadow anymore since I installed that dumb Super Sonic DLC. He just doesn’t appear now in the tiny select window. Did you notice the same glitch ?

Anyone else noticed this?

[Mad Convoy]

3 hours ago, Depression Kong said:

I wonder if any of the people working on this franchise right now are capable of feeling any emotion at all, let alone regret or guilt.

Why would you wonder that? Not asking to be mean, its an honest question.

Sonic Team is staffed by real human beings who have lives, thoughts, goals, worries, interests, etc. related and not related to Sonic, just like you and me. Also which people? Sonic Team and Sega have had a ton of restructures and staff changes-- if this is over Forces than staff will probably get changed again and the Forces people will go on to bigger and sometimes better things like literally every important Sonic Team and Sega employee usually does. And then they'll get praised for their newfound glorious effort or passion or something, even though they had it all along.

Does Headcannon fall under this, for that matter-- they're people working on the franchise right now, correct? Or the people writing the IDW comic books-- they're also working on the franchise right now, aren't they? Surely you wouldn't deny that Ian Flynn and Evan Stanley have feelings including but not limited to regret and guilt.

Or is this over something different? I know a lot of people here hate Forces, yourself included. I think there was this expectation or hope that Sega and Sonic Team would somehow be shamed dramatically by all and forever ashamed of Forces. Folks who are frustrated with the current direction of Modern Sonic want, not to mention staked so much emotionally on, Forces to be this dramatic Sonic 06 moment where the Boost, Sonic Team, or even 3D Sonic as a whole is once and for all discredited and hated and Sonic does a 180 and, I dunno, the next Sonic game is Sonic Unleashed Adventure World or whatever. As well as the expectation that it would never be spoken of again or treated as good by anybody. And... it didn't happen because that's not how this works. Forces isn't bad enough to be a Sonic 06 moment. It sells meh, it reviews meh, it has competent technical performance-- you pretty much have to exaggerate everything that Forces does wrong to even begin to make it work as a Sonic 06-level disaster. And that, as expected, is what I've seen from people who are trying to claim it as that. To expect people to somehow have some dramatic deep shame just because some people on the internet are miserable is really, really misguided, and that is the nicest word I can find for that expectation. Acknowledgement of mistakes, that's a good thing to do and expect, but this dramatic deep shame and gutting wouldn't do anything to help and if anything would contribute to problems with inconsistent staff that have plagued Sonic since 2007. 

I don't expect that kind of reaction from you or anybody else either. Maybe just edit the post, apologize, or clarify what you meant by it and you're good to go. Shame seldom helped anybody-- if anything, it usually harms people's capabilities to improve and do better because it demotivates and causes lack of conviction and confidence in decision making.

I get not being happy with Sonic Team and Sega right now, or disliking Sonic Team and Sega, but holy crap, I think a line gets crossed when we get into dehumanizing the staff (And I think we can all agree that staffs are people, before I get a lecture on how I'm not suppose to care about corporations or something) because they didn't react the way you wanted them to and other people don't actually hurt or even care as much about Forces as anybody here.

Disappointment happens. Sonic Team and Sega does things worth responding to, sometimes (arguably often) with negative criticism. But these bitter knee jerk, easily torn apart responses don't make you smarter, or more right, or insightful, or funny, or even better informed about the game. It just makes you look really ill-informed and immature and I know you're neither of those things. Perhaps I come off as harsh here-- but I have heard this argument/generalization so many times and its always been unoriginal, knee-jerk bullshit, so it annoys me greatly.

1 minute ago, JezMM said:

Comparing SEGA to big companies like EA over this is going a bit too far for sure.  I mean they had the perfect opportunity to try out the ol' loot box game with the Avatar's customisable parts here and they didn't take it so I don't think they're quite on that level of nonsense yet.

Thank you.

This isn't a good move by any means. A really stupid and poor move, I would add. A really stupid and poor move that won't make them much money. But folks can criticize it without resorting to these extremes.

[Tarnish]

16 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Comparing SEGA to big companies like EA over this is going a bit too far for sure.  I mean they had the perfect opportunity to try out the ol' loot box game with the Avatar's customisable parts here and they didn't take it so I don't think they're quite on that level of nonsense yet.

Give them time, they'll get there eventually I'm sure.

[molul]

Well, the fact that people wonder if Sonic Team have any emotion (which I take as "do they realize the crap they're developing?"), is totally legit to me. You have to either be really clueless or really "don't-give-a-&@#&" to publish so many average or bad games.

I don't think questioning this is wrong. It's just a symptom that something doesn't make sense at all and needs to be changed.

[Mad Convoy]

59 minutes ago, molul said:

Well, the fact that people wonder if Sonic Team have any emotion (which I take as "do they realize the crap they're developing?"), is totally legit to me. You have to either be really clueless or really "don't-give-a-&@#&" to publish so many average or bad games.

I don't think questioning this is wrong. It's just a symptom that something doesn't make sense at all and needs to be changed.

Nope, there's multiple options here if you think about it. You can also be creatively stifled so that your best ideas don't even make it to the table, or not given the time to complete everything you want to do and thus being forced to scale back, or not given the budget in the areas that matter, or something goes horribly wrong, or it turns out the concept behind the game looked better on paper but its too late to turn back, or you don't even get the chance to try again with what you've learned because you only got to make one game as the publisher you're working at was planning on rotating you out from the start.

And about that-- yeah, Sonic Team isn't a publisher. So Sonic Team hasn't been publishing any of the games you perceive as average or bad. Sega has been, because Sega is actually a publisher. And Sega as a result calls most of the shots-- how much funding Sonic Team gets, how much time Sonic Team gets, how much creative freedom Sonic Team gets, who is working on Sonic Team, what is Sonic Team working on, etc.

The question is a symptom of somebody not really thinking about how the development cycle process usually works and instead falling back on a knee jerk assumption-- one that typically turns out not to be true at all, basically always, to the point where its a poor thing to jump to as the source of all problems.

And like, maybe that wasn't the intent-- well, scratch that, it most definitely wasn't the intent-- but questioning if humans are truly capable of emotions (who are working on a franchise-- the post did not specify Sonic Team or anybody else, so I can only guess if it includes Headcannon or the comic writers or what's going on there) because they're not acting the way you want them to is really dehumanizing and indicative of a falsely entitled mindset that I strongly doubt the person I was addressing has. If it was meant to be a joke or something, it wasn't very funny and really not an excuse for the dehumanizing aspects.

[Sean]

Sega is nowhere near comparable to EA. They're not evil, just dumb.

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Mayor D said:

So...

Anyone else noticed this?

You couldn't play it before, either. Shadow isn't available in stages with a big QTE segment.

[Tarnish]

5 minutes ago, Sean said:

They're not evil, just dumb.

Making the conscious decision to put a once standard feature of the game behind a paywall, (even if it is free for a limited time) is not a case of "Oh, silly SEGA, they forgot how this used to be", it's a deliberate decision to make more money of the game by carving out content for DLC, no matter how you cut it.

[Sean]

It's all just speculative shit either way, whether someone wants to believe that Sega is intentionally being an EA or is ignorantly fucking incompetent at DLC models. I lean toward the latter, because Sega of Japan has never struck me as a particularly bright company after the Genesis. They don't seem smart enough to pull off manipulative business models like EA's in the first place.

[Diogenes]

When was Super Sonic ever really a "standard feature", though.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Well, 4ep1, Colors, Generations, 4ep2, and Lost World all came out one after the other with Super Sonic in them. Is five games enough for something to be considered regular or standard? I would say so.

[JezMM]

To be fair, extra difficulty modes, secret stages, and bonus games are all standard features in other Sonic games too.

And yet... 2006, Unleashed's and Generations' DLC.

 

A lot of people in the thread cite the idea that charging a couple bucks for Episode Shadow would be fair more reasonable, but consider that scenario - one could just as easily say "hey, three extra stages was free DLC in Sonic Lost World, how dare they charge for these!?"  At the end of the day SEGA can release whatever they like as paid content, and whether it is acceptable or not comes down to the case-by-case basis of each individual player as they decide whether to hit that "Buy" button or not.

[KHCast]

They can release and charge whatever they want, doesn’t defend anything they do regarding corporate driven decisions if that’s what you’re trying to do. For me, the only charged dlc content that I find okay is post game created content that warrants a charge, like building from ground up new stages or story arcs. Like Skyrim. Things that the devs spend weeks/months to create. Not something like a extra difficulty or skin that’s already in the game files and behind a paywall.

53 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

When was Super Sonic ever really a "standard feature", though.

What qualifies as a standard feature?

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

What qualifies as a standard feature?

There's obviously no clear, objective line to be drawn between standard and not standard, but considering in-level Super Sonic isn't a feature at all in most Sonic games, I think it's reasonable to argue that it isn't a standard feature.

Like, this DLC aside, Super Sonic isn't even in Forces. And if that had been it, if there was no Super Sonic DLC and no Super Sonic in the base game...that would've been a valid choice. People might have been disappointed but I don't think there would be an honest argument that they were owed Super Sonic.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, SaberX said:

Well, boost happens to be absent on Lost World, if thats the logic.

...I'm not sure what you mean by this.

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, JezMM said:

At the end of the day SEGA can release whatever they like as paid content, and whether it is acceptable or not comes down to the case-by-case basis of each individual player as they decide whether to hit that "Buy" button or not.

This implies there’s no ethical line in corporate business models and that the  morality depends souley on the consumer. Ie, it’s the consumers fault if they have a issue, not the companies responsibility to change. Which by that logic, we may as well excempt most companies and dlc practices or even microtransactions from criticism if we just throw the opinion card.

48 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

There's obviously no clear, objective line to be drawn between standard and not standard, but considering in-level Super Sonic isn't a feature at all in most Sonic games, I think it's reasonable to argue that it isn't a standard feature.

Like, this DLC aside, Super Sonic isn't even in Forces. And if that had been it, if there was no Super Sonic DLC and no Super Sonic in the base game...that would've been a valid choice. People might have been disappointed but I don't think there would be an honest argument that they were owed Super Sonic.

I’ll agree that we’re not “owed” super sonic. But I think it’s fair to ask “why”when they decide to charge for a skin with barely any alterations, when past games that include him make him part of the game. It comes off like they think they can get away with stuff Konami gets shit for 

[Diogenes]

16 minutes ago, KHCast said:

But I think it’s fair to ask “why”when they decide to charge for a skin with barely any alterations, when past games that include him make him part of the game.

Because money. They made a little extra thing to sell so they could maybe get a couple of extra bucks out of people. Not exactly a mystery, nor a rarity, nor ethically dubious in any way I can see. Just lazy and kinda tone deaf.

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Because money. They made a little extra thing to sell so they could maybe get a couple of extra bucks out of people. Not exactly a mystery, nor a rarity, nor ethically dubious in any way I can see. Just lazy and kinda tone deaf.

Couldn’t that be said for anything done in the game industry tho?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

On 12/21/2017 at 4:36 PM, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

Do.. people here really have a problem with an 'agree to disagree' mentality?

I didn't realize that people were getting THIS miffed because of the things that I was saying. I really don't think I did anything wrong. Do I have to agree with everyone when they get angry and constantly criticize an aspect of a game? I don't believe I was being rude or confrontational in the slightest with my disagreements.

And by the way, I'm not a girl - I'm a guy. Just clearing that up.

No one's got an issue with 'agree to disagree', but you're not doing that great of a job in making your case (or at least not sounding like an apologist for crappy practices). Most of your posts regarding this makes it sound like you're being evasive and deliberately ignoring anything that contradicts your points, regardless whether that was your intent.

[Diogenes]

Just now, KHCast said:

Couldn’t that be said for anything done in the game industry tho?

No, I think there's definitely some abusive and/or underhanded practices out there. This just seems like an instance of lame dlc though.

[Shiny Gems]

Man, modern Super Sonic was exhilarating! Speeding through the levels and knocking over enemies as modern Super Sonic was fun! If only there were more modern Sonic stages and the Drift. I haven't had this much fun since Sonic Unleashed!