Why did Knuckles fall for Robotnik's lies so many times, even knowing he's the enemy?

[EzSonic01]

Definitely, one of the defining traits of Knuckles in the early games was his gullibility and his failure to notice people's true intentions. Due to this, he was easily tricked/deceived by Dr. Robotnik/Eggman's lies, and, as such, had an active antagonistic (but not necessarily evil) role against Sonic and Tails (specially against Sonic). What do you think about this?

 

[Phos]

I'm probably giving them too much credit, but it seems to me that Knuckles is subconsciously predisposed to not trust Sonic because Sonic betraying him would make him retroactively right for the first time he believed Robotnik.  Not the most rational reasoning, but with Knuckles being a hothead, or at least whenever the writers remember that he's a hot head, it seems to fit reasonably well.  

[Diogenes]

It's because he's kinda dumb.

And that's okay. Not every character has to be smart. And a character isn't automatically less just because they're a bit dumb. A character's weaknesses are at least as interesting as their strengths (and sometimes more), and mistakes and failures are important parts of stories. I think Knuckles is, legitimately, a better character for having a clear flaw.

[Almar]

The idea from official bios is that Knuckles wishes to see the good in others, including Eggman. Also, in canon he's only done it 2-3 times (depending on whether Advance 2 is in the canon or not) of all his appearences. The time in Sonic Adventure was at the point in the series where he was still Sonic's friendly rival but not really one of his posse.

[Multikaris]

Knuckles had noticed what appeared to be the egg of the Sky God Dragon, which made him shiver with fear. “Eggman” was a mysterious, if friendly-looking creature. His colors seemed to imply he was a protector-figure, one for Knuckles to look up to in this time.

[Shadowlax]

He's gullible and wants to see the best in people, that's kinda it. 

Homie was raised on an island by himself with almost no contact with other people for years. I can imagine wanting to see the best in people. While not canon, this is pretty well illustrated in the archie comics with shadow. Where he explains why he wants to trust, the obviously fake echidina. Its cool , he also then realizes when saying it out loud why shadow has the view point he has... which is also cool. You don't get to see it often in sonic, but in that moment, one character " got " another character. Its a flaw that makes knuckles interesting

 

 

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

I always thought knuckles got tricked differently in advance 2:

Knuckles got tricked a different way in sonic advance 2. He still saw eggman as the enemy but he was overcome by his boss robot and trapped him into the egg saucer while eggman programmed it to fight sonic. The glass couldn't be destroyed from the inside and was sound proof so knuckles couldn't explain what was going on, that's why it looks like he was punching his way out. Eggman used this same tactic in advance 1 to trick sonic into thinking that knuckles went heel but it didn't work.

[StaticMania]

Knuckles isn't trying to punch his way out of the Egg Saucer, that's just his sprite for moving the controls.

[Salamander]

It appears that Knuckles is just a bit gullible and quick to jump to conclusions.  Given his background, it's fair to say that his experiences pre-Eggman would never have taught him better.  We also don't know exactly how he was tricked in Advance 2, also, so it's probably possible to make up a satisfying explanation.

It would be easier to communicate aspects of characterisation like this if we had more complex plots where sophisticated reactions were actually meaningful.  Well, maybe that's what the comics are for.

[Sega DogTagz]

You have to remember that on most occasions, Eggman is using Knuckles natural suspensions against him. While Knux is clearly not the most socially savvy bloke, and while he may also want to see the good in others, its also abundantly clear that he is quick to jump to conclusions and quicker to solve disagreements with his fists. Eggman, more often than not, wins over Knuckles by appealing to that nature. Not by tricking him by making him think he is a class act, but by introducing a third party as a common enemy. By giving him something else to focus his attention and aggression. It doesn't hurt that Sonic is a perfect target for that kind of ploy. He's snarky and always has his fist buried in some kind of mystical mumbo-jumbo.

He's kind of like an over-zealous guard dog. He catches a burglar jumping the fence, and the thief points to the mailman who is coming through the front gate. Rather than asking questions doggy-Knux just starts foaming at the mouth and attacks the mailman while the burglar runs inside to steal the emerald shaped TV. He's doing his job... he just gets taken advantage of by a guy with a high IQ is all.

[molul]

I just think the antagonist role was interesting for game's plot, and Sega used it until they created Shadow.

IMHO, it's just really lazy writing.

[Almar]

I mean, the idea in Adventure One was that Knuckles was still Sonic's Friendly Nemesis. They had something of a shared contempt for each-other hence Knuckles running to fight Sonic when he finds an excuse.

[Austroid]

Pretty much like a lot have said: he's gullible.

But I also think that deep down wants to believe Eggman could truly become good one day. Honestly I find it rather sweet! Eggman can't be that bad right? He gave Knuckles his own mech to pilot that one time!

I kind of miss Sonic and Knux being actual rivals. It made things more interesting...

[molul]

Some kind of mind control gadget made by Eggman would be better than any other explanation. 

I too liked Sonic and Knuckles being rivals

[superman43]

I believe that Knuckles was at least during the S3 development (before division into S3 and S&K) meant to be one-time only character. Sonic Adventure 1 and to a very little extent also Adventure 2 revisited his role, but after that his character is entirely scrapped and made totally different (for console/PC releases, I don´t count handheld games there).

[SBR2]

Because Knuckles is an Idiot. I'm sorry I know that's not exactly popular but I mean he kinda is. The only reason he ever outsmarted Sonic was because he Knew Angel Island. Outside of that Knucklers is a Dope.

[DabigRG]

It's any combination of growing up on a Floating Island with very few if any other lifeforms to socialize with, taking up his duty because his genes and the murals of the Hidden Palace tell him to, having a relatively shortemper at times, being somewhat envious of Sonic's lifestyle, and genuinely wanting to believe in the natural good in people.

In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the Death Egg suddenly crashing on his island immediately put him on alarm. He found Robotnik and his Badniks hanging around the general area and was tricked into believing the Death Egg was just a giant Phoenix egg or something, Robotnik was a good scientist studying it, and that Sonic and Tails were on their way to use the Emeralds for evil purposes. So he went about taking the Emeralds from Sonic and hiding them in the Island's various Warp Rings and use traps around the Island to give him and Tails trouble. It wasn't until after they fought in the Hidden Palace that Robotnik's true colors were fully revealed to him and he escorted Sonic through the Sky Sanctuary to stop the Death Egg and retrieve the Master Emerald.

I'm not really counting the Game Gear era stuff since it's mostly loose retellings and spinoffs. Plus, I'm somewhat assuming Triple Trouble and Sonic Blast had him acting as an independent player given their setup.

Sonic Adventure was really the last game that treated him as his own thing and Sonic's Rival/FriendlyNemesis. There, he notably follows Eggman into the hotel because he thought he had a Master Emerald shard from a distance and causes Eggman to initially react in minor astonishment. After the mixup is discovered and Knuckles tangles with Chaos 2, Eggman plants the seed of doubt that Sonic is looking for the Emeralds as well. While Egmman doesn't exactly trust Eggman, his vitriol with Sonic causes him to legitimately wonder why he would after the Emerald Shards and eventually charge in to demand he and Tails hand them over when he makes the same mistake again.

Sonic Adventure 2 more or less has him play his own trick on Eggman by simply shattering the Master Emerald when he grabs it after what is implied to be a fair chase after Rouge. Incidentally, it also somewhat provides an explanation for his misunderstanding in the last game--Eggman comes by to steal the Master Emerald  because he apparently mistook its energy readings for a regular Chaos Emerald.

Sonic Advance 2 is easily the dumbest instance of this, where Knuckles was seemingly given one of Eggman's mechs to use against Sonic for whatever BS reason. However, he quickly decides to help Sonic, Cream, and Tails stop Eggman.

Sonic 06 just kinda had him turn up after running into Eggman to do him and Sonic a mutual favor by delivering the letter with Eggman's demands. And that's really just a "happened to be in the neighborhood" situation at it's bluntest.

Notably, Sonic Rivals Zero Gravity specifically made a point of noting that he's since wised up to Eggman's tricks and is more skeptical around the Doctor, hence his hostile behavior towards him.

Outside of some moments in Sonic Boom(which is really an alternate universe), Knuckles getting tricked by Eggman hasn't been thing since Advance 2.

On 12/24/2017 at 3:01 AM, A Checker KING heavy engin said:

I always thought knuckles got tricked differently in advance 2:

Knuckles got tricked a different way in sonic advance 2. He still saw eggman as the enemy but he was overcome by his boss robot and trapped him into the egg saucer while eggman programmed it to fight sonic. The glass couldn't be destroyed from the inside and was sound proof so knuckles couldn't explain what was going on, that's why it looks like he was punching his way out. Eggman used this same tactic in advance 1 to trick sonic into thinking that knuckles went heel but it didn't work.

 

On 12/24/2017 at 3:45 AM, StaticMania said:

Knuckles isn't trying to punch his way out of the Egg Saucer, that's just his sprite for moving the controls.

Yeah, I like that explanation better than just having Knuckles willingly operate this complicated Mech to kill Sonic for no good reason.

 

On 12/29/2017 at 6:58 AM, Austroid said:

Pretty much like a lot have said: he's gullible.

But I also think that deep down wants to believe Eggman could truly become good one day. Honestly I find it rather sweet! Eggman can't be that bad right? He gave Knuckles his own mech to pilot that one time!

I kind of miss Sonic and Knux being actual rivals. It made things more interesting...

Oh wait, so he did that shit twice?! Oh, well, there's no fuggin excuse for that!

On 12/29/2017 at 9:03 AM, superman43 said:

I believe that Knuckles was at least during the S3 development (before division into S3 and S&K) meant to be one-time only character. Sonic Adventure 1 and to a very little extent also Adventure 2 revisited his role, but after that his character is entirely scrapped and made totally different (for console/PC releases, I don´t count handheld games there).

Pretty much the case with most Sonic charactes, though Shadow is allegedly an exception.

Really, most of the games after the Angel Island adventure were mainly spinoffs and loose retellings, so it's entirely possible that he really was supposed to be relevant only once and simply became a legitimate recurring character due his popularity and constant presence.

 

[Dash Speed]

On 12/29/2017 at 6:58 AM, Austroid said:

Pretty much like a lot have said: he's gullible.

But I also think that deep down wants to believe Eggman could truly become good one day. Honestly I find it rather sweet! Eggman can't be that bad right? He gave Knuckles his own mech to pilot that one time!

I kind of miss Sonic and Knux being actual rivals. It made things more interesting...

 

On 12/29/2017 at 7:06 AM, molul said:

Some kind of mind control gadget made by Eggman would be better than any other explanation. 

I too liked Sonic and Knuckles being rivals

 

On 12/25/2017 at 3:38 PM, Almar said:

I mean, the idea in Adventure One was that Knuckles was still Sonic's Friendly Nemesis. They had something of a shared contempt for each-other hence Knuckles running to fight Sonic when he finds an excuse.

See this

This is why I really don't see them as rival, I still don't get why people hype them as such, it was always a onesided measuring contest on Knuckles part while Sonic remained uninterested, indifferent and pretty much chill about Knuckles while teasing him on being guilible to the same man he's faced down as a villain tricking him. It's not much of a rivalry if one guy doesn't want to fight the other cuz he's being duped or takes Knuckles temper as a joke. The comics made them hyped like that because Knuckles was the only one Sonic had close to his level and age to compete in a fight, but non canon wise they have nothing to go as rivals or nemesis's.

Shadow on the other hand, thats much more intense and entertaining to me, they mirror each other in every way but they clash as heroes and foils in relational principles/morals. Shadow is Sonic's darker counter part, Sonic is Shadow's light counter part and they compliment each other as much as a Sith and Jedi compliment as arch rivals in the force. Sonic expresses himself more against Shadow and shows more sides to him than witty cocky rouge asshole with super speed, it shows that Shadow both brings out the best in Sonic and causes him to take things seriously when with him or against him. Shadow makes Sonic more serious and focused on contrasting him morally or skill wise while being determined to fight Shadow with everything hes got since he's the only one he views as a equal. Shadow being overpowerful only views Sonic out of the cast as the only one who is worth a damn to fight battles he can't win alone, they both have this instinct to fight anything that gets in their way for different reasons to. So naturally they be each others worth opponent, Shadow himself fights Sonic because he is the only one that Sonic actually tries to match in a battle or race, they know the that they are the best heroes and expect each other to not hold anything back since they rival each other perfectly.

And as far as characters goes, Shadow is a dark and brooding realist to Sonic's optimist who has great reason to foil his cheery attitude and ego, since he's just as egotistical but much more well spoken about it. It's like a pragmatic aristocrat vs. a sports frat boy with a heart of gold. Knuckles is just a clueless and easiiy triggered jock that Sonic always outwits verbally as a far as their scuffles go, Sonic is someone I see Shadow look stupid because he's well educated and dry witted in countering Sonic's witty jokes. 

[DoubleXXCross]

Knuckles is the kind of rival who's Sonic's friend. Shadow is the kind of rival who's Sonic's enemy. These can totally co-exist as character types.

But that's not really the point of the thread. The point of the thread is that Knuckles is a territorial doof. Eggman isn't a territorial doof. Eggman is in fact very specifically an asshole, not a doof. It's not hard to imagine that Eggman knows the exact buttons to press.

[Shadowlax]

Knuckles isn't even a doof

Well he wasn't

It was that he, legit didn't have any experience with people, and eggman tricked him. Knuckles being a doof is quite new. And I'm not fond of it, because its breaking down and misunderstanding a character trait into " he's stupid" but he's not stupid. He's been raised on an island by himself for several years , and again to reference the comic book this is done very well in the comic book. Where as he's not stupid, he doesn't know when to and when to not trust people. He's a socially innept weirdo and its kinda fine, and he bonds with shadow because he's another for a different reason socially innept weirdo. And i'm not particularly fond of knuckles being a " doof " because i'm not fond of people who are socially inept being called stupid. They are lacking, for whatever reason social skills, and being raised on sland by yourself and being instructed to do a single thing above all else is a pretty decent reason. It kind of sucks that sega has defaulted on him being dumb, because there was legitimate interesting character flaw that tied to his backstory that justified why he acted the way he acted and why i'm not fond of coments like these

On 12/24/2017 at 12:09 AM, Diogenes said:

It's because he's kinda dumb.

And that's okay. Not every character has to be smart. And a character isn't automatically less just because they're a bit dumb. A character's weaknesses are at least as interesting as their strengths (and sometimes more), and mistakes and failures are important parts of stories. I think Knuckles is, legitimately, a better character for having a clear flaw.

Its ok if a characters dumb

But he's not dumb

He was raised on an island by himself and wants to trust people, and honestly was tricked... like two times at best. But people not caring about knuckles as a character has resulted him being dumb. The last thing I saw with actual care for knuckles as a character ( that isn't an entirely different purposefully funnier version of knuckles)   which was the sonic universe comics, knuckles isn't dumb. He's a bit socially inept is quite literally able to explain why he thinks the way he thinks to someone else then to understand someone else feelings and use that to grow as a person. 

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

He was raised on an island by himself and wants to trust people,

Am I going to have to point out, once again, that he did not extend this desire to trust people to Sonic the first time they met, or more importantly the second time, after Sonic had already proven himself an ally and Eggman had already proven himself an enemy and a liar?

This explanation does not work.

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

The last thing I saw with actual care for knuckles as a character ( that isn't an entirely different purposefully funnier version of knuckles)   which was the sonic universe comics, knuckles isn't dumb. He's a bit socially inept is quite literally able to explain why he thinks the way he thinks to someone else then to understand someone else feelings and use that to grow as a person. 

There's also Forces, but I've personally deemed/called that more of an unearned shorthand for making him feel important rather than something that was truly in theme for him by giving him a role that one or two other characters would've/should've had otherwise.

[Shadowlax]

43 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Am I going to have to point out, once again, that he did not extend this desire to trust people to Sonic the first time they met, or more importantly the second time, after Sonic had already proven himself an ally and Eggman had already proven himself an enemy and a liar?

He could have still not trusted him, I mean to reference that comic again. Knuckles doesn't trust shadow, and he watched shadow almost give his life to save the world multiple times. ( though to b quite fair that's more a writing failure because no writer even the ones in the games can seem to justify characterrs wanting to fight shadow at this point, besides shadow being evil or its a not real/alt reality version of the character but sega's lack of creativity is another discussion entirely )  Maybe he didn't trust them because every time he's sees sonic/eggman on his island bad shit happens. bad shit occurs and grew up isolated on his island and didn't have a lot of the context that he had. But as the series goes he learns to trust other people become friends with them and understand them. 

Maybe if you grew up on island by yourself for 15-16 years and you just meet people, your perceptions of what is and what isn't aren't like everyone else and it takes time to adapt and learn how to trust people and get with the program , and even then you still might be reluctant to because you know... you grew up hella different. 

 

[EzSonic01]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

There's also Forces, but I've personally deemed/called that more of an unearned shorthand for making him feel important rather than something that was truly in theme for him by giving him a role that one or two other characters would've/should've had otherwise.

Maybe because he's a main character and the third most important probably. I don't really think Knuckles deserved the role they gave him in Forces. How did he even qualify to take the role of commander of a whole resistance team that is going to take back the world? Maybe because Sonic was captured and Tails had "lost it"? Then again, as Mania and Forces have proven, there are two dimensions: one "classic" and the other one which is "modern".

The Knuckles ("modern") we see in Forces has been several times a sidekick to Sonic and hasn't been tricked nor fought him much (excluding Adventure 1) so that could also count? Not to say "classic" Knuckles hasn't been that either, but as I see it, he is a bit more independent from Sonic and is a more of a "rival" to him too, if we count Eggman/Robotnik's lies. As some folk above said, there is no real rivalry if the clashes are just because of external manipulation and extremely one-sided for the most part. 

 

 

[Emerald Chaos]

Well, in regards to the video that OP posted.
Triple Trouble and Advance 2 are of questionable canonicity (whatever counts as canon these days, anyways)

The number of times Knuckles gets tricked in any given series timeline isn't actually as high as you might think. It's just the fact that it happens at least once in EVERY timeline (except Sonic the Comic) which gives that impression.