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Sonic Forces sells an estimated 234,000 units worldwide in the first week at retail.


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5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 Nobody is hoping for Sega to go bankrupt; 

They ain't going Brankrupt. They just sold over 600k of Football Manager. 

If anything, Manager Man should be Sega's new icon.

 

Welcome to SSMMMB!

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1 minute ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I don't think they are that smart to understand that, and even then, they don't have a team of talents to make quality games. They'd likely call it a defeat before trying to improve anything.

Then we're doomed regardless, aren't we? Even given bad odds I'd rather take the path of potential improvement over encouraging more bad games.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Then we're doomed regardless, aren't we? Even given bad odds I'd rather take the path of potential improvement over encouraging more bad games.

That's just me but I'd take "bad" games over no Sonic at all.

The Mania team sure can handle 2D classic games, but can they make 3D main games? That's what I'm saying, and then I take a look around in this forum and realize a lot of people think Sonic always sucked in 3D and only needs 2D classic games.

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7 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

They ain't going Brankrupt. They just sold over 600k of Football Manager. 

If anything, Manager Man should be Sega's new icon.

 

Welcome to SSMMMB!

Yeah, it's Sonic Team's recent games which have shit sales. Whereas SEGA's other IPs (and Mania) have done much better.

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1 minute ago, Jack of Tangles said:

That's just me but I'd take "bad" games over no Sonic at all.

The Mania team sure can handle 2D classic games, but can they make 3D main games? That's what I'm saying, and then I take a look around in this forum and realize a lot of people think Sonic always sucked in 3D and only needs 2D classic games.

This might be the worst concession I've ever read.

It's that kind of mentality that lets the Simpsons continue on for 20+ seasons well after it lost its luster.

And judging by how the Sonic Mania special stage plays, they're at the very least better than Sonic Team at making a high speed 3D experience.

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The only ones which have had shit sales recently to my knowledge have been the Wii U exclusives because...well, it was the Wii U. Even Mario couldn't avoid a slump in sales on that thing. 

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Just now, Jack of Tangles said:

That's just me but I'd take "bad" games over no Sonic at all.

That's terrible.

Just now, Jack of Tangles said:

The Mania team sure can handle 2D classic games, but can they make 3D main games?

Hard to imagine they could do worse than Sonic Team has.

Just now, Jack of Tangles said:

That's what I'm saying, and then I take a look around in this forum and realize a lot of people think Sonic always sucked in 3D and only needs 2D classic games.

Sonic has always sucked in 3D, but that doesn't mean I want 3D games to end. I just want them to actually be good, which isn't going to happen if they can make a profit off of games like Forces.

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There's absolutely no way Sonic Forces hasn't far exceeded 100,000 copies across all systems in all regions.

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I agree that games have to improve, but that's really up to SEGA, and I disagree with this cynicism and destructive way of thinking that Sonic has to sell badly in order to improve.

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2 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I agree that games have to improve, but that's really up to SEGA, and I disagree with this cynicism and destructive way of thinking that Sonic has to sell badly in order to improve.

Cynical? It's common sense.

Sonic Team is a corporation. What do they care about? Their bottom line.

Either they improve their quality, or they rightly lose their investments. Simple as that.

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I'm not sure I understand the idea that if Forces sold good then there's a 100% chance of more games like it, but for some reason that means that the also incredibly successful Sonic Mania isn't going to get any follow-up for some reason. I'm not really sure that's even held true for most Sonic games in the past. Can we honestly remember the last time a Sonic game sold really well and as a result it was followed up with another identical game? Other than the DIMPS titles, I don't think there's a single instance. I'm pretty sure if that were the case the series wouldn't be stuck in it's stupid loop of constantly throwing out established ideas and mechanics just to replace them with new, not-necessarily-better ones.

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Just now, SaberX said:

You're only proving that Sonic fans accept Sonic games regardless of its quality. Thats is just sad.

Objective measures of quality are the in thing, then?

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1 minute ago, SaberX said:

You're only proving that Sonic fans accept Sonic games regardless of its quality. Thats is just sad.

The sooner Sonic fans accept that there will always be people who like any given game no matter what the perceived quality by the masses is, the better. There's no point in picking on people for it, not to mention it makes you look kind of dickish 

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2 minutes ago, SaberX said:

You're only proving that Sonic fans accept Sonic games regardless of its quality. Thats is just sad.

I care about the Sonic series because I grew up with it, yes, so I don't wish for it to fail, and I don't need a masterpiece to be happy with the franchise, I'm content, good for me I guess. Obviously better games are preferable.

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Gonna expand a bit further from the arguments from the last page.

 

 

14.2 million games sold by Sega according to their financial report. There's probably a pretty decent chance that those numbers weren't made up entirely of entries in two series people couldn't give less of a shit about outside Japan and Europe.

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12 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

 

I'm not sure I understand the idea that if Forces sold good then there's a 100% chance of more games like i

 

I mean if you can get away with little effort and below average games and get pretty good money in return, what’s the incentive to improve or change? The message it sends to Sega when they hit success with below quality work is that it’s fine to the public. It’s why people say vote with your wallet. 

Unless Sega have artistic integrity regarding their sonic games which I honestly doubt at this point, money is a big dictator in direction.

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I keep using the example of Sonic 4 (which I didn't like but still): it was a success with sales, but fans hated it, did Sega keep making shitty games for the classic brand? No, they improved it and hired the team from the ports to make another digital game. So they don't really have to fail to improve. And I still think that wishing for Sonic to have low sales is ridiculous.

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If you aren't interested in some games, don't buy them, it's okay. But if you want to see games that other people liked fail, I think that's quite evil.

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4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean if you can get away with little effort and below average games and get pretty good money in return, what’s the incentive to improve or change? The message it sends to Sega when they hit success with below quality work is that it’s fine to the public. Unless Sega have artistic integrity regarding their sonic games which I honestly doubt at this point, money is a big dictator in direction.

Which is why I had the second part of that statement. Is there a case of any Sonic game getting any reception less than average but receiving more games like it due to sales alone? I don't know of any Sonic game to receive a follow-up where the original didn't get good reviews. I mentioned the DIMPS games, but thinking about it now, all of them got relatively good scores, excluding S4ep2 and Lost World 3DS. And well, those didn't exactly get all the attention from SEGA that they could've, right?

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2 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I keep using the example of Sonic 4 (which I didn't like but still): it was a success with sales, but fans hated it, did Sega keep making shitty games for the classic brand?

They made Generations and Forces and signed off on S4E2, so, yeah?

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9 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

Which is why I had the second part of that statement. Is there a case of any Sonic game getting any reception less than average but receiving more games like it due to sales alone? I don't know of any Sonic game to receive a follow-up where the original didn't get good reviews. I mentioned the DIMPS games, but thinking about it now, all of them got relatively good scores, excluding S4ep2 and Lost World 3DS. And well, those didn't exactly get all the attention from SEGA that they could've, right?

Even if there isn’t a direct follow up, which tbh is a ridiculous parameter to put here, the message still is sent that little improvement or quality or effort, in general, would be needed by them to generate “strong sales”. Their incentive to actually work to improve is lessened. And given Sega and their track record of quality as is regarding Sonic, I don’t see them suddenly now changing 

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9 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I keep using the example of Sonic 4 (which I didn't like but still): it was a success with sales, but fans hated it, did Sega keep making shitty games for the classic brand?

Yes, they did. And then the second one completely flopped, and then they stopped making more.

 

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No, they improved it and hired the team from the ports to make another digital game.

This is the second time I've heard something like this in this thread. There was no cause and effect in place between S4 and Sonic Mania.

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11 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

If you aren't interested in some games, don't buy them, it's okay. But if you want to see games that other people liked fail, I think that's quite evil.

How many times has this shit been said now? “It’s selfish for you to want a game to fail because others may like it.” Yeah, well it’s by that logic selfish to want a game to succeed because others may not like it. There’s nothing selfish about this. If I don’t like the direction, I don’t wanna see the direction thrive and continue. Simple as that 

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If Forces has done well enough, I hope Sega takes that to mean people want more of the boost style and the characters/tone present in Forces. With most of Forces development going into the Hedgehog Engine 2, that hopefully means we'll see a faster turnaround time than between Lost World and Forces.

Mania meanwhile shows that calculated risks can definitely pay off. Hopefully that allows them to experiment in the future as well.

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Just now, KHCast said:

Even if there isn’t a direct follow up, which tbh is a ridiculous parameter to put here, the message still is sent that little improvement or quality or effort would be needed by them to generate “strong sales”. Their incentive to actually work to improve is lessened. And given Sega and their track record of quality as is, I don’t see them suddenly now changing 

Okay, then why do any of the good recent Sonic games exist when any of the bad ones ever sold well? If it's really that easy for them to make money, it would have happened long before now, and with a much worse game than Forces.

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