Classic Sonic of Generations and Forces is from another dimension

[havikinazuma]

I've seen many youtubers as well as general Sonic fans, call out the line of Classic being from another dimension,  but it absolutely makes perfect sense, and here's why. 

What people don't realize,  is that Classic meeting his older self in Generations, caused a massive split in the timeline. Classic being able to meet many of his friends earlier than he should, seeing a lot of places he's been to early, as well as seeing many foes. It wouldn't make sense for these two Sonic to be the same any longer. Same goes for Forces, unless you want to tell me Sonic experienced Generations and Forces twice. Lol

Anyway, with all that being said, it's only Sonic who's effected, Classic Tails and Eggman as well. Eggman is one I'm gonna focus on here.

When we first heard of what Eggma's plans were, he mentioned about undoing his past mistakes, and he enlisted his younger self as well. Also when defeated, was answering questions about his many failures, which in turns let past Eggman know what worked and what didn't. 

Now to Sonic Mania, this game marks the beginning of a "New" classic era( which I dubbed Nu-Classic Era).

*This Era follows Generations classic Sonic, after his return. Subsequent classic games would fall under here.(Mind you, Modern Sonic's younger that we grew up with does NOT go on these adventures) 

I've heard many times that Sonic Mania felt like a Sonic game would be on the SEGA Saturn, and judging on Bean and Bark's inclusion in Sonic Mania, we can conclude that at least Sonic the Fighters has occured. It obviously also before Sonic has green eyes.

With all that being said. Do you think the Nu-classic era could lead to a nu-Adventure Era? I mean Nu-classic Eggman learning of Modetn Eggman's failures, wouldn't probably follow the same footsteps. 

AN: I don't think Mania's Eggman's plan with the Phantom Ruby, has anything to do with Modern's in Forces. Base on my Theory, it was just coincidental. Let me know what you think. 

[Almar]

Not in Generations.

[Razule]

The issue is:

1. Tails and Eggman already instantly know Classic Sonic is from another dimension. 
2. If it's an in-universe change, the characters should explain why.
3. If it's an alternate timeline they'd say the word "alternate timeline"
4. It's not as if Sonic time travel has ever used multiverse theory before.
5. They've done this before but in reverse (see Nega and Blaze) so it's really not exactly hard to assume there was no logic put into it.

[Diogenes]

It's best not to overthink it. This wasn't done for any kind of narrative reason, it was done so they can justify having a "classic" line running in parallel to the "modern" line. Any in-story explanation was surely thought up after the fact, if they've bothered to at all.

13 minutes ago, havikinazuma said:

With all that being said. Do you think the Nu-classic era could lead to a nu-Adventure Era?

That would defeat the purpose of having a classic line.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I'm pretty sure it was thought-up before a non-fact. I feel like I remember something saying that the JP version of Generations never actually says Classic is Modern from an earlier point in time. Obviously I can't confirm this firsthand as I don't have a JP version of the script and can't read Japanese.

The implications of everything that exists in the series currently is that the four Mega Drive games happened in both timelines, but we only see the classic versions, while the modern versions are basically identical except they continue to SA1 instead of Mania. Like somehow Iizuka views SA1 as a hard reboot instead of a soft one.

It's stupid, but I sort of get it. I just don't know why there's really much discussion because canon means absolutely nothing in this series and basically has been that way since the very beginning.

[Multikaris]

53 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

That would defeat the purpose of having a classic line.

How would an Adventure Line defeat the purpose of the Classic Line?

[Razule]

43 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

I'm pretty sure it was thought-up before a non-fact. I feel like I remember something saying that the JP version of Generations never actually says Classic is Modern from an earlier point in time. Obviously I can't confirm this firsthand as I don't have a JP version of the script and can't read Japanese.

The Generations Japanese script seems to be almost exactly the same. It's still pretty clear that's the intention. Modern Sonic doesn't directly say "You, Classic Sonic, are me from the past of my current adventures", either but it's not any less or more apparent he is Sonic from the past. They're still said to be travelling through time and fixing past locations, Eggman still calls himselves "Future Dr. Eggman" and "Past Dr. Eggman", Sonic and Classic Sonic still have the same interaction about Classic attempting to air boost, Sonic still says the cheesy "Enjoy your future it's gonna be great!" line.

[JezMM]

2 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

How would an Adventure Line defeat the purpose of the Classic Line?

No-one said anything about a seperate adventure line.  The OP was asking whether this new line of classic games could lead to a new Adventure game because that's what the original line of classic games lead to.  Such a notion is ridiculous because the point of the new classic line is to make classic style games alongside modern Sonic games, and Sonic Adventure was a modern style game.  So you'd basically have two series of modern Sonic.

Of course, everyone wants them to make a classic-style game in 3D, but they could do that with either art style just fine.

[Multikaris]

15 minutes ago, JezMM said:

No-one said anything about a seperate adventure line.  The OP was asking whether this new line of classic games could lead to a new Adventure game because that's what the original line of classic games lead to.  Such a notion is ridiculous because the point of the new classic line is to make classic style games alongside modern Sonic games, and Sonic Adventure was a modern style game.  So you'd basically have two series of modern Sonic.

Of course, everyone wants them to make a classic-style game in 3D, but they could do that with either art style just fine.

And Adventure’s aesthetic is actually a little different from the modern games. Tone-wise they’re generally worlds apart. I’d say it’s worth the effort.

[JezMM]

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

And Adventure’s aesthetic is actually a little different from the modern games. Tone-wise they’re generally worlds apart. I’d say it’s worth the effort.

If Adventure's "tone" is what you want, literally all you're asking for is a modern Sonic game with a decent storyline, we don't need a third offshoot of Sonic to achieve that, they just need to make the next modern Sonic game have a decent story.

Honestly, tone-wise I felt Sonic Forces was about right, the issue was that the plot and character interactions were written like they were more meaningful than they actually were.

[Pengi]

You can try to explain it away with the Time Eater or the Phantom Ruby creating an alternate timeline, but the real explanation is that Sonic Team simply changed their minds.

 

I'm fine with that, because it means that any Sonic Mania sequels can completely ignore Sonic 4. It also means that they could potentially bring back the 32X versions of Vector, Charmy and Espio.

[MetalSkulkBane]

This... could work. Of course, it's not canon, but it could be a nice explanation.It means that game used somewhat wrong terminology, but that's an oversight I could forgive.

And I know that Sonic time traveled a lot (Nega, Silver, CD, 06, etc) but maybe there is more than one way to time travel.

Maybe Time Stones allow to change the past, Double Chaos Control throw you into "a loop", while whatever Time Eather did caused a split timeline.

I can totally buy that.

[Maxtiis]

Considering Modern Sonic and Tails both remark on how familiar Chemical Plant Zone is to them in Generations, the only implication of that can be that Classic Sonic is indeed Sonic's past self. So either that wasn't intended and that detail was just lines used for the English translation or whomever is in charge of writing the scripts for recent games is being inconsistent, which considering the lax attitude Sonic Team seems to take with this franchise, are both high possibilities.

Personally I think time travel can be interpreted as being from another dimension since in order for time travel to occur you'd have to travel through space as well as time. I'm probably wrong, though I don't really care enough to try and decipher whatever nonsense writing Sonic Team/Pontac and Graff cooks up.

Maybe there's a conspiracy within Sonic Team where their pride won't allow them to admit that Sonic Mania is canon, so they threw in that Classic Sonic is from another dimension to imply that the game will ultimately have no bearing on future titles. I wouldn't put it past them, after all Sega has a history of letting petty pride and jealousy influence business decisions.

[KHCast]

2 hours ago, Maxtiis said:

Sega has a history of letting petty pride and jealousy influence business decisions.

Sega turned into Konami?

[Maxtiis]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

Sega turned into Konami?

If the some of the things from the book Console Wars about the relationship between Sega of America and Sega of Japan are to be believed, then yes. But considering this stuff happened over 21 years ago, shouldn't it be better said that Konami turned into Sega?

[ClassicKnuckles]

The way I see it is...

 

Classic Sonic Timeline (Any console Sonic game, Sonic 1 through Sonic R0

Game Gear Sonic Timeline (All Game Gear Sonic games)

Adventure Timeline (All Console Sonic games, Adventure 1 through 06)

Advance Timeline (The Advance series, Pinball Party, and Battle)

The Rush Timeline (Rush, Rush Adventure, Colors DS, and Unleashed Mobile)

Modern Sonic Timeline (Unleashed, Colors, and Generations)

Post-Modern Sonic Timeline (Lost World and Forces) (Because of the gameplay differences in Lost World, and the Mobians of Forces, along with it's darker tone)

New Classic Timeline (Sonic Mania, Classic Sonic's story in Forces)

 

There's a few misfit games, but it works well enough...

[MetalSkulkBane]

7 hours ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

The way I see it is...

 

Classic Sonic Timeline (Any console Sonic game, Sonic 1 through Sonic R)

Game Gear Sonic Timeline (All Game Gear Sonic games)

Adventure Timeline (All Console Sonic games, Adventure 1 through 06)

Advance Timeline (The Advance series, Pinball Party, and Battle)

The Rush Timeline (Rush, Rush Adventure, Colors DS, and Unleashed Mobile)

Modern Sonic Timeline (Unleashed, Colors, and Generations)

Post-Modern Sonic Timeline (Lost World and Forces) (Because of the gameplay differences in Lost World, and the Mobians of Forces, along with it's darker tone)

New Classic Timeline (Sonic Mania, Classic Sonic's story in Forces)

 

There's a few misfit games, but it works well enough...

...so what's the point of this?

I don't see those 'timelines' serving any purpose unless Sega gets drunks and makes a game with 8 Sonics.

The way I see it fans should ignore "don't overthink think it"  and accept/ignore that classic is from another dimension or if they want to come up with a crazy, but sorta logical explanation, then havikinazuma's idea is as good as any.

 

[Darth InVaders]

On 1/12/2018 at 11:20 PM, havikinazuma said:

I've seen many youtubers as well as general Sonic fans, call out the line of Classic being from another dimension,  but it absolutely makes perfect sense, and here's why. 

What people don't realize,  is that Classic meeting his older self in Generations, caused a massive split in the timeline. Classic being able to meet many of his friends earlier than he should, seeing a lot of places he's been to early, as well as seeing many foes. It wouldn't make sense for these two Sonic to be the same any longer. Same goes for Forces, unless you want to tell me Sonic experienced Generations and Forces twice. Lol

Anyway, with all that being said, it's only Sonic who's effected, Classic Tails and Eggman as well. Eggman is one I'm gonna focus on here.

When we first heard of what Eggma's plans were, he mentioned about undoing his past mistakes, and he enlisted his younger self as well. Also when defeated, was answering questions about his many failures, which in turns let past Eggman know what worked and what didn't. 

Now to Sonic Mania, this game marks the beginning of a "New" classic era( which I dubbed Nu-Classic Era).

*This Era follows Generations classic Sonic, after his return. Subsequent classic games would fall under here.(Mind you, Modern Sonic's younger that we grew up with does NOT go on these adventures) 

I've heard many times that Sonic Mania felt like a Sonic game would be on the SEGA Saturn, and judging on Bean and Bark's inclusion in Sonic Mania, we can conclude that at least Sonic the Fighters has occured. It obviously also before Sonic has green eyes.

With all that being said. Do you think the Nu-classic era could lead to a nu-Adventure Era? I mean Nu-classic Eggman learning of Modetn Eggman's failures, wouldn't probably follow the same footsteps. 

AN: I don't think Mania's Eggman's plan with the Phantom Ruby, has anything to do with Modern's in Forces. Base on my Theory, it was just coincidental. Let me know what you think. 

I beat you to the punch on this theory... My post from November:

On 11/14/2017 at 10:19 PM, Darth InVaders said:

Possibility: They altered the timeline in Sonic Generations. Classic Sonic used to be the past version of Modern Sonic, but after Generations when Classic returned to the past, they started doing things differently creating a tangent timeline - a different dimension. So Modern Sonic still has a version of Classic Sonic in his past, but the current Classic Sonic split from that version. When Modern Sonic was still Classic Sonic, he did not experience what the current Classic Sonic experienced in Generations or Forces, and Modern Sonic never experienced the events in Mania at all.

[MetalSkulkBane]

So they both went through Sonic 1,2,3,CD, but classic go Mania and Modern got Sonic 4? (and then later games)

Would that mean second Phantom Ruby is laying around somewhere on Angel Island?

[ClassicKnuckles]

I have an interesting theory... What if it goes like this Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic CD, Sonic 3K, Sonic R, Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic Mania (Classic Sonic goes to Forces), Sonic Forces (in the final boss, Classic Sonic is shown homing attacking), Sonic Pocket Adventure (Classic Sonic is learning how to homing attack, and now has green  eyes due to a timeline change, Robtnik switches to Eggman at the end of the game), Sonic 4 (Both episodes. Sonic has fully learned the homing attack after Forces),  Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, etc.

[Your Vest Friend]

On 13/01/2018 at 2:20 PM, Pengi said:

It also means that they could potentially bring back the 32X versions of Vector, Charmy and Espio.

The classic output in 2017 suggests that they're not budging from their position of completely cutting the classic versions, even with the dimension shenanigans in play now.

[superman43]

I have a theory:
Sonic and Tails knew each other before Sonic 1.

Sonic Generations´ Classic Sonic is the Sonic from just before the adventures of Sonic 1. As Eggman "had a brilliant idea, to use my discovery to undo my previous defeats". I still cannot find out why Classic Tails suddenly appeared in the cutscene after Death Egg Robot though. Return of Classic Sonic and Classic Tails to their time leads to a new paradigma. And that was fulfilled with Christian Whitehead´s Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 remakes. That was the road to Sonic Mania and the Classic Sonic appearance of Classic Sonic.

Think about it. The only thing that is not that constituent about the theory is Knuckles in those remakes. But everything other could be about right.

[ClassicKnuckles]

1 hour ago, superman43 said:

I have a theory:
Sonic and Tails knew each other before Sonic 1.

Sonic Generations´ Classic Sonic is the Sonic from just before the adventures of Sonic 1. As Eggman "had a brilliant idea, to use my discovery to undo my previous defeats". I still cannot find out why Classic Tails suddenly appeared in the cutscene after Death Egg Robot though. Return of Classic Sonic and Classic Tails to their time leads to a new paradigma. And that was fulfilled with Christian Whitehead´s Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 remakes. That was the road to Sonic Mania and the Classic Sonic appearance of Classic Sonic.

Think about it. The only thing that is not that constituent about the theory is Knuckles in those remakes. But everything other could be about right.

Or Classic Sonic from Generations  is from Sonic Blast or Sonic 2 GG? Both have GHZ, and are after Tails has met Sonic...

[superman43]

10 hours ago, ClassicKnuckles said:

Or Classic Sonic from Generations  is from Sonic Blast or Sonic 2 GG? Both have GHZ, and are after Tails has met Sonic...

But that would mean that Eggman quote from the end of Generations is incorrect. Let´s assume it´s correct.

[havikinazuma]

On 1/17/2018 at 8:42 AM, Darth InVaders said:

I beat you to the punch on this theory... My post from November:

Man.... I knew I should've put out a video. I heard complaining about this on Forces reviews. I was like "It's simple, why can't people understand?" Glad someone else thought the same thing. What do you about the nu-Adventure era? The Sonic movie implies involving Chaos. So maybe this new timeline leads to it.