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Ways Sonic Mania/Sonic Forces are the modern Sonic 3/Sonic and Knuckles


SatAMhog
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Hey guys.  I was thinking of topics to make and thought this might be fun.   Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces essentially being a two-part story about the Phantom Ruby(one in the classic, and one in the Modern era) same as Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were a two parter about the Floating Island and the capstone to the Death Egg Saga.  I thought it was kinda fun that they did that again for the 25th Anniversary.  I'm going to list the similarities off the top of my head, if you find any that you can think off, comment below.

When I refer to first game I mean(Sonic 3/Sonic Mania) and by second I mean(Sonic and Knuckles/Sonic Forces)

-Both games were released in the same year.

-The primary focus is on Sonic, Knuckles and Tails(in Forces, Sonic is captured, Knux takes a major role as the resistance leader and Tails works with Classic Sonic in the background) vs Robotnik/Dr. Eggman.

-Both 1st games begin with the same opening sequence.

-The 1st game is longer than the 2nd(Hidden Palace was a SHORT zone) but that's debatable.

-The first game ends on a cliffhanger that leads into the second(kinda obvious on that one :P)

-Hydrocity is in both first games.

-Death Egg Zone is in both second games.

-Both second games end with a chase through space/null space trying to destroy a speeding robot.

-The original 1UP jingle from Sonic 3(standalone) is back for Sonic Mania.

With all the references to past games, I really think they were trying to recreate the Sonic 3 and Knuckles experience all over again, just over the course of two games and even if they didn't entirely succeed with Forces, they did a great job with Mania(ironically enough, I enjoy Sonic 3's levels a lot more than Sonic and Knuckles).

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2 hours ago, SatAMhog said:

With all the references to past games, I really think they were trying to recreate the Sonic 3 and Knuckles experience all over again, just over the course of two games and even if they didn't entirely succeed with Forces, they did a great job with Mania(ironically enough, I enjoy Sonic 3's levels a lot more than Sonic and Knuckles).

I really don't think that Sonic Team is that smart these days... as the post above said, these points are a coincidence and nothing more.

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3 hours ago, SatAMhog said:

-The primary focus is on Sonic, Knuckles and Tails(in Forces, Sonic is captured, Knux takes a major role as the resistance leader and Tails works with Classic Sonic in the background) vs Robotnik/Dr. Eggman.

That's...really not the case. Tails and Knuckles are more relevant than, say, Silver or Amy or Vector, but they're really not the focus of the story. I'd even argue the focus isn't on stopping Eggman, even though the story is supposed to be about his takeover. The game's mostly focused on Modern Sonic, the Avatar, and Infinite, with Classic Sonic dangling off to the side like a stubby sixth finger or something.

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This is... a bit of a reach to be honest.  The biggest "thing" about Sonic 3 & Knuckles is that the two titles join together to make one long, consistent game, and were always intended to be that single game from the outset.  That is absolutely not the case with Mania and Forces.  A lot of things on your list are just very coincidental/superficial, and are extremely small details within the scope of the games as a whole.

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I feel linking Mania and Forces together was more of a marketing move than anything regarding the creative vision or story. Maybe they felt/suspected in advance Mania was gonna be successful (for whatever reason, who the hell knows how SEGA/Sonic Team thinks), and wanted some of that success to help sell their own game, so what better way than linking the two together with the story, enticing people with "You liked Sonic Mania? Well, buy Sonic Forces and see how the story unravels!".

Because the way I see it, there's no real reason for the 2 games to share the story. Super Sonic defeats Eggman at the end of Mania, happy ending as usual. Removing Classic Sonic from Forces would change pretty much absolutely nothing regarding story, except Tails doesn't have a Sonic to be a useless sidekick of.. whoopty doo.

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They didn't really do much to advertise the Mania/Forces connection, either - and in fact the existence of that connection seems very strange, considering that their franchise-wide approach at the moment appears to be to emphasise the differences between and separation of Classic and Modern.

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I definitely think that the reasons mentioned are coincidence as was said by many previously.

Plus Sonic Forces far more resembles Sonic Generations (in terms of reused levels - Green Hill, Chemical Plant and Death Egg vs. Sky Sanctuary, which technically had Death Egg in background) and it seems like they were trying to emulate Sonic 1 in some way (Green Hill, EE Fortress resembling Scrap Brain in some odd way)... or Adventure (Mystic Jungle vs. Mystic Ruins) or Heroes (Metropolis partially resembling Grand Metropolis)

 

In Mania only thing I believe was not coincidental was the level order, there is a pattern.

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No, they're not, and the reason for that is that there's one ENORMOUS difference between the two:

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are both great games that also form two halves of the same experience.

Meanwhile...

Sonic Mania is a fantastic game, and Sonic Forces is a mediocre nothing of a game that have pretty much sod-all to do with each other (apart from minor connections that don't go anywhere or affect anything).

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No, you can't really make that comparison. 

Sonic 3 & Knuckles are the same game but with different levels.

Mania and Forces are two completely different game styles with some of the same levels (Chemical Plant, Green Hill).

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