Sonic Forces Super Sonic DLC Will Be Free Forever

[KHCast]

Being small doesn’t excuse bad business behavior being bad business behavior, and how many times have game devs or publishers changed their mind when people aren’t expressing that they’re upset?

sega is a company, not your friend, not some poor rag tag team of programmers, etc. there’s no reason to not express anger at something you don’t approve of.

[Shiny Gems]

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Being small doesn’t excuse bad business behavior being bad business behavior, and how many times have game devs or publishers changed their mind when people aren’t expressing that they’re upset?

That's what I said, it might take a more consistent, as in ongoing effort to make things happen. I suppose it's not unnatural to be disappointed or upset to some degree, but overly angry as some people I have seen were, that is another story. You can be reasonable, calm, polite and civil even when angry. It is not that hard. Plus, even as bad as it possibly was, it was still nothing to get THAT worked up over. It was still a simple, small thing regardless.

[KHCast]

I’m sure that would have worked wonders with EA

[Shiny Gems]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

I’m sure that would have worked wonders with EA

You do realize that EA is evil, right? Like they listen to anything, and to any possible thing they did listen to, it probably wasn't because they were thinking of/cared for the fans, but more so of being annoyed or just couldn't take the criticism anymore.

BUT, regardless, I am sure EA has done worse than what Sega has done, and with that said, getting worked up over something that wasn't that big of a deal is a waste of energy better spent on better things, simple as that.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Ah yes, because EA changed their microtransactions after reading small dedicated forums and seeing how much people were arguing with each other. After all, we know SEGA's executives read the archives here all the time, right?

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

Ah yes, because EA changed their microtransactions after reading small dedicated forums and seeing how much people were arguing with each other. After all, we know SEGA's executives read the archives here all the time, right?

Yeah your point? By that logic, don’t get upset about anything I guess unless you know the company will see your comments 

3 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

You do realize that EA is evil, right? Like they listen to anything, and to any possible thing they did listen to, it probably wasn't because they were thinking of/cared for the fans, but more so of being annoyed or just couldn't take the criticism anymore.

BUT, regardless, I am sure EA has done worse than what Sega has done, and with that said, getting worked up over something that wasn't that big of a deal is a waste of energy better spent on better things, simple as that.

I’d say the issue is this was on top of a bunch of other frustrating issues with Forces. Maybe if this was Sega a first strike with forces I could see what you mean 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Just now, KHCast said:

Yeah your point? By that logic, don’t get upset about anything I guess unless you know the company will see your comments 

Your comment was about how being civil here won't make things better. The point is that nothing here is going to do much of anything to the franchise, so it's worthless to pretend there's any justification for not simply calming the fuck down.

[Shiny Gems]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Yeah your point? By that logic, don’t get upset about anything I guess unless you know the company will see your comments 

I’d say the issue is this was on top of a bunch of other frustrating issues with Forces. Maybe if this was Sega a first strike with forces I could see what you mean 

Don't be silly! Like I said, it's not unnatural, or should I add that is not even bad to be upset to some extent if there is a concern, and this was a concern for many. I am sure there were those who were reasonable. Getting too angry and overblown, like some of us did, that is what we should not do.

[KHCast]

@Shaddy the ZaphodGood job twisting words. My argument was about expressing anger and frustration is perfectly fine no matter how small some may see it. Some being complacent with some shit company actions isn’t gonna silenc those who have a problem still with it 

also good job for acting as if people are dumping tea in the ocean in piss blood rage when no one is or has done that 

[Shiny Gems]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

@Shaddy the ZaphodGood job twisting words. My argument was about expressing anger and frustration is perfectly fine no matter how small some may see it. Some being complacent with some shit company actions isn’t gonna silenc those who have a problem still with it 

also good job for acting as if people are dumping tea in the ocean in piss blood rage

Now this is the kind of behavior we all should avoid, no matter what the situation. Expressing anger and frustration (especially overblown) without being civil, calm and reasonable? If that's how you think things should be done, allow me to disagree with that notion.

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Now this is the kind of behavior we all should avoid, no matter what the situation. Expressing anger and frustration (especially overblown) without being civil, calm and reasonable? If that's how you think things should be done, allow me to disagree with that notion.

Are people gonna keep divorcing the two as if people are arguing for one or the other? Shocker, you can be angry and still be constructive and civil in your anger 

[Shiny Gems]

Just now, KHCast said:

Are people gonna keep divorcing the two as if people are arguing for one or the other?

I will leave that up to you to decide.

But, one thing I forgot to say that I think needs to be said, while all forms of criticism can be listened to, and while that has been done before, I still believe constructive, not destructive criticism is the best way to handle things.

And while Sega is not the best company in the world, it surely isn't EA.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

10 minutes ago, KHCast said:

My argument was about expressing anger and frustration is perfectly fine no matter how small some may see it.

Okay, so then why bring up another, much worse situation, where a bunch of people taking it directly to the publisher is what got things to change? I'm not even denying that you should be able to express your opinion, just that being respectful to others in the process is kinda necessary. I should know, I've had issues with it myself.

10 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Some being complacent with some shit company actions isn’t gonna silenc those who have a problem still with it 

Please show me where I've said anything remotely similar to this, then talk about "twisting words". I'm not excusing this, I'm saying that "calm down" and "settle for stupid decisions" aren't synonyms, yet for some reason there continues to be this expression that any reaction but over-the-top hatred for Sonic Team is somehow compliance with any problems they cause. It's a problem bigger than just this DLC or even Forces as a whole, and I'm personally sick of it.

[KHCast]

You’re telling ghosts to calm down as no one literally in the thread is warranting “calming”. It wasn’t until people came in here acting as if were crucifying some Sega rep and roasting them like wild hateful animals. We expressed why we found the action shitty and disagreed with some, to which people took that as getting riled up 

[Shiny Gems]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

You’re telling ghosts to calm down as no one literally in the thread is warranting “calming”. It wasn’t until people came in here acting as if were crucifying some Sega rep and roasting them like wild hateful animals. We expressed why we found the action shitty and disagreed with some, to which people took that as getting riled up 

And it could have been handled better, and I wasn't saying people were doing that stuff to a Sega rep like wild, hateful animals. Never did. Either way, whether handling people or doing something like that to Sega reps, people should learn to be in more control.

[Balding Spider]

4 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

I'm glad they're listening at least.

 

Yeah, thanks for not charging consumers for a power-up Sonic Team.

[JezMM]

7 hours ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

And while Sega is not the best company in the world, it surely isn't EA.

If people hadn't made their voices heard over this, it would have been a step in that direction for SEGA.  SEGA were obviously trying to test the waters here, people were trying to nip these shitty practices in the bud.  Remember this important thing: People weren't getting angry at this ONE decision.  They were getting angry at the potential of what this one decision represented.  If we threw money at Super Sonic, like good, obedient little customers, what standard feature from recent games would they try and charge us for next?  Avatar parts?  Special Stages?  Post-game extra stages?  Would they go so far as to do something as bad as (using Forces as an explicit example), stopping the game after the last Infinite fight and then releasing the final two stages and true final boss as epilogue DLC?

And I know it's hard to see the positive in fans but just remember that these reactions can go both ways.  People weren't just excited for Sonic Mania when that was launched - they were excited for all the potential that went with it - the idea that Sonic Team were listening and cared that the true classic experience wasn't been catered for, and now that might be changing.  Of course that's why Forces was such a bitter follow-up to that for a lot of fans, since it seemingly 100% abandons those ideals (it's one mark of respect is that Classic Sonic's inclusion was intended to lure kids into trying Sonic Mania rather than lure Classic fans into trying Forces, but... y'know they still could've made Classic Sonic good and not a generic platformer with stiffer controls than Generations).

[Shiny Gems]

5 minutes ago, JezMM said:

If people hadn't made their voices heard over this, it would have been a step in that direction for SEGA.  SEGA were obviously trying to test the waters here, people were trying to nip these shitty practices in the bud.  Remember this important thing: People weren't getting angry at this ONE decision.  They were getting angry at the potential of what this one decision represented.  If we threw money at Super Sonic, like good, obedient little customers, what standard feature from recent games would they try and charge us for next?  Avatar parts?  Special Stages?  Post-game extra stages?  Would they go so far as to do something as bad as (using Forces as an explicit example), stopping the game after the second Infinite fight and then releasing the final two stages and true final boss as epilogue DLC?

And I know it's hard to see the positive in fans but just remember that these reactions can go both ways.  People weren't just excited for Sonic Mania when that was launched - they were excited for all the potential that went with it - the idea that Sonic Team were listening and cared that the true classic experience wasn't been catered for, and now that might be changing.  Of course that's why Forces was such a bitter follow-up to that for a lot of fans, since it seemingly 100% abandons those ideals (it's one mark of respect is that Classic Sonic's inclusion was intended to lure kids into trying Sonic Mania rather than lure Classic fans into trying Forces, but... y'know they still could've made Classic Sonic good and not a generic platformer with stiffer controls than Generations).

*chuckles* Jez, I am sure there is more than one way to get people's voices heard, and I believe the constructive, reasonable way is the best. Now, I know it is not true that all fans were unreasonable and bad as others when making their voices heard, but being overly angry when expressing criticism wastes a lot of energy, that is the thing.

And what of those extra stages of Sonic Unleashed HD that were DLC? They were to be paid for, and I am not sure if I remember many complaining about those being payable. Of course, that does not mean Super Sonic DLC for Forces should have been paid, for many people did not want that, but you can't get everything for free, and I am sure extra stages would have been paid for, since the team worked on them, so they shouldn't come off as free if they took much effort (surely you knew that, though). Considering Super Sonic could have been in game, that is another story there. I would have paid for extra stages, personally, or special stages, but that is a maybe.

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

I'm just glad we won this fight, even if I don't intend to use Super Sonic anyway.. I would focus on that.

Funny enough I just watched very interesting video on this subject

I'm not trying to defend Sega here (not until they make good games again), just giving perspective.

[Harkofthewaa]

You know, if this wasn't so minor of an infraction (in the bigger picture) I could almost see a Jimquisition on this. He tends to specialize in this kind of corporate bullshit.

[KHCast]

31 minutes ago, Harkofthewaa said:

You know, if this wasn't so minor of an infraction (in the bigger picture) I could almost see a Jimquisition on this. He tends to specialize in this kind of corporate bullshit.

I mean he’s made plenty of videos regarding dlc, and other extended forms of nickle & diming customers. I’m sure one of them applies well here. I’ll see if I can find one actually 

[molul]

I'm glad for the people who still care about Sonic, both consumers and Sega workers like Aaron. This victory is more epic than all Sonic Forces.

[Ultimate Victory 64]

It shouldn't be DLC PERIOD.

[Harkofthewaa]

7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean he’s made plenty of videos regarding dlc, and other extended forms of nickle & diming customers. I’m sure one of them applies well here. I’ll see if I can find one actually 

I'm not saying it warrants one, I'm just saying the whole thing has the kind of stink he likes to take the piss out of companies for.

[TheOcelot]

35 minutes ago, molul said:

I'm glad for the people who still care about Sonic, both consumers and Sega workers like Aaron. This victory is more epic than all Sonic Forces.

Trying to convince SoJ to not charge for Super Sonic must have been something like...

 

Yes, it's a small victory. SoJ should never have tried to make Super Sonic paid dlc. SS should never have been dlc in the first place, not that Forces even needed SS and it's inclusion hardly even changes the gameplay.