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Detective Kaito

Sonic Forces Super Sonic DLC Will Be Free Forever

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So... I didn't have to freak out about there being a price if I don't get it before a certain date...

...huh.

Well, uh... good for you, Sega? Er, still not cool for originally wanting to charge for it, but uh... yeah. At least Super Sonic helped me get S-ranks I was having trouble getting. xD;

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Good for Aaron and his team, not Sega. Now let's see what the next battle is. Let's not forget that while we won the Super Sonic dlc war, we lost the Denuvo one. Sega is still expected to do things wrong again, sadly. Only a handful of good moves will remove this feeling. 

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22 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

This whole situation is extra weird for someone like me who doesn't even consider Super Sonic that worthwhile an unlockable in a base game without having to pay for it. The idea that it's DLC feels about as warranted as fucking Horse Armour

This comment literally just made my night, lol! That's not a bad point, though. It's a little ridiculous that it wasn't even in the base game to begin with. Super Sonic's kind of a core element in the franchise (and pretty popular, for the most part, too).

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You know, having Super Sonic behind a paywall in the first place was dumb. Just taking something that has become a core part of the series and segregating it shows how out of touch SEGA is. The fact that they reversed their stance on paying for it in the first place shows that they could afford to put it in at launch without having to download some DLC. To put this in perspective: imagine a Dragon Ball game where in order to go Super Saiyan, you have to download DLC first. People would lose their shit, and that's what would've happened here if people actually cared about Forces in the first place. TL;DR: SEGA, if you want to make a game with minor $1-$2 DLC packs, make a game worth playing in the first place.

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10 hours ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

And as far as it being 'obviously shit and greedy'... again, agree to disagree.

What previously standard feature would they have to put behind a DLC paywall for you to consider it "shit and greedy"? The 'Homing Attack' perhaps? Or the ability to save your game progress? The ability to play the game with the music enabled? Certain screen resolutions? Gamepad support?

9 hours ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Plus, even as bad as it possibly was, it was still nothing to get THAT worked up over. It was still a simple, small thing regardless.

That's how things usually start. Small. Then they get bigger and bigger.
"Oh, they're willing to pay for this separately! Hmmm...maybe they'll be willing to pay for other things separately as well.."

You have to look at the bigger picture. If we allow the small things to pass, they're just gonna keep pushing it to see how far they can go.

After all, that's how innocent DLCs led to microtransactions and lootboxes.

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1 hour ago, Tarnish said:

What previously standard feature would they have to put behind a DLC paywall for you to consider it "shit and greedy"? The 'Homing Attack' perhaps? Or the ability to save your game progress? The ability to play the game with the music enabled? Certain screen resolutions? Gamepad support?

That's how things usually start. Small. Then they get bigger and bigger.
"Oh, they're willing to pay for this separately! Hmmm...maybe they'll be willing to pay for other things separately as well.."

You have to look at the bigger picture. If we allow the small things to pass, they're just gonna keep pushing it to see how far they can go.

After all, that's how innocent DLCs led to microtransactions and lootboxes.

This. We could have overlook this but next game would come with even worse ideas from Sega for us all. 

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5 hours ago, Tarnish said:

What previously standard feature would they have to put behind a DLC paywall for you to consider it "shit and greedy"? The 'Homing Attack' perhaps? Or the ability to save your game progress? The ability to play the game with the music enabled? Certain screen resolutions? Gamepad support?

That's how things usually start. Small. Then they get bigger and bigger.
"Oh, they're willing to pay for this separately! Hmmm...maybe they'll be willing to pay for other things separately as well.."

You have to look at the bigger picture. If we allow the small things to pass, they're just gonna keep pushing it to see how far they can go.

After all, that's how innocent DLCs led to microtransactions and lootboxes.

I honestly don't know, off the top of my head... but it'd have to be something a hell of a lot more egregious than charging $2 for such a small, inconsequential feature.

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2 minutes ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

I honestly don't know, off the top of my head... but it'd have to be something a hell of a lot more egregious than charging $2 for such a small, inconsequential feature.

All of the things I listed can be inconsequential to some people.

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9 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

All of the things I listed can be inconsequential to some people.

Yeah, I know.

For me, even if they DID do something 'shit and greedy' in the future... I wouldn't get particularly angry or upset about it. I'd just either not play the game, or not use the feature, and move on.

And no matter what, I wouldn't react with snark, nastiness, and bile directed towards the makers of the game. Which yes, I know, nobody in this thread at this time is/was doing. Back when the DLC was announced, however, I saw that kind of reaction all over the internet.

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6 hours ago, JezMM said:

"*chuckles*" ?

Talk about unnecessary tones of voice, wanna try that one again without the condescending flourish?

All I can say here is that I feel you're making mountins of molehills since I didn't see a single person being overly aggressive or being actively hostile towards Sonic PR team (and at this point, those guys KNOW it's part of their job to look at hostile comments and extract why the person is angry and pass that along to their superiors) you come off as overly nitpicking because ultimately, at the ground level, you think it's fine that they were charging for Super Sonic but can't really find any other way to justify it.

Sonic Unleashed still had extra stages in the base game before you add in DLC, as well as all the town missions that lead to mini re-arranged stages.  It was already a pretty substantial package as is.  My mention of "what if extra stages were paid DLC" is imagining if none of that was in the base game.  Unleashed had those, Sonic Colours had Game Land, Generations had a bunch of missions that often were pretty much just "play this unique stage layout we built over the top of the existing stage using props", Lost World had Hidden World Zone, Forces had the Secret and Extra stages unlocked by clearing each zone in the story/collecting red rings.  At this point, "platforming stages not necessary to beat the story or unlocked after the story" have become a staple feature of the modern games, but are something that SEGA could develop alongside the main game and then just decide to release seperately for extra money, much as they did with Super Sonic here.

If something is being developed alongside the main game and traditionally has been part of that base game, I feel it should be included.  If SEGA keeps chopping bits off and charging for DLC, eventually we'll be paying $100 for the same amount of entertainment that cost us $50 in the past.

 

I too would pay for additional stages quite happily (I'd have been fine with them charging $2 for Episode Shadow, since an extra mini campaign is not something typical for a Sonic game like that, and the base game already has 15 or so extra stages to incentivise 100% completion a bit), but I think it's fair to expect a little more than the bare minimum out of the base game before I start re-opening my wallet for more.

On the first part you quoted, impressive, you are actually quite wrong with what I was thinking. I never said it was fine for Super Sonic to be charged. I even agree it would have been better if it were in the game and not DLC. I can see why it wasn't a good idea. My main beef is not towards people having a problem with that, but how they do it is the thing. Plus, I said some people were acting like that, not all. I don't think I am making mountains out of molehills out of anything. Plus, just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it wasn't there. Plus, I don't believe I was implying they were acting that hostile. There is a limit to what I was implying.

 

7 hours ago, Tarnish said:

What previously standard feature would they have to put behind a DLC paywall for you to consider it "shit and greedy"? The 'Homing Attack' perhaps? Or the ability to save your game progress? The ability to play the game with the music enabled? Certain screen resolutions? Gamepad support?

That's how things usually start. Small. Then they get bigger and bigger.
"Oh, they're willing to pay for this separately! Hmmm...maybe they'll be willing to pay for other things separately as well.."

You have to look at the bigger picture. If we allow the small things to pass, they're just gonna keep pushing it to see how far they can go.

After all, that's how innocent DLCs led to microtransactions and lootboxes.

Homing attack? Game saving? Music? I think you are overreacting a bit here. Sega is not that dumb to do that.

Plus, I never said small things had to be allowed to pass. I said that there are better ways of getting their attention.

Note that I am not defending Super Sonic being charged, no I never did. I was just annoyed how some people overreacted to the whole thing, key word, some. I realize not all people did the same thing, though. I think it is possible for people to control their own emotions and themselves, which I think should be done when dealing with things like this.

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People who spent nearly 27 years or however long its been dedicated their time to following the franchise are not going to just quietly walk away from it if it gets to the point where its simply intollerable. How would you feel if you decide to give up an ongoing franchise you loved and cherished for years or decades? Are you telling me people shouldn't feel anything? Or if they do feel anything they should keep their mouth shut?

To me this would have been like Nintendo charging players to buy, lets say, "Traditional Powerups" for Super Mario Odyssey, so you pay $1.99 to have fireflowers, frog suits and raccoon leaves as an alternative to the capturing ability. Nintendo doesn't what Sega does in attempting to have microtransactions for the most historically basic amenities (not that I'm calling Super Sonic basic but its still something that's been in the games since Sonic 2 as a reward, which also shows that it was rather unusual Super Sonic wasn't in Sonic Forces in the first place and that getting the DLC means he's available at an additional character, rather than make you work for it like you could traditionally in the older games, as recently as Sonic Lost World with its red rings).

I don't believe in taking historically basic features of long running game series and putting it behind paywalls because its the thing now with AAA game companies. I'm sure most of us would hate if Sonic went down that route of microtransactions in his console games. Just because its the first instance of Sega attempting to charge a bit of money for an historic amenity in the series, doesn't mean we shouldn't try and make our voices heard at our dismay (on top of all the other new or consistant problems that plague Sonic games these days). If we didn't shout loud enough. Super Sonic would still cost money today and for seeable future.

Can't take industry wide issues like this lying down thinking it isn't a problem with dealing with, unless you don't particularly care that much about the game/franchise to begin with.

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3 minutes ago, PaddyFancy said:

People who spent nearly 27 years or however long its been dedicated their time to following the franchise are not going to just quietly walk away from it if it gets to the point where its simply intollerable. How would you feel if you decide to give up an ongoing franchise you loved and cherished for years or decades? Are you telling me people shouldn't feel anything? Or if they do feel anything they should keep their mouth shut?

Now, what makes you think I said that? I didn't. On one hand, this is still a small, minor thing that getting angry about is wasting energy over. On the other hand, if anyone feels they should challenge or point out something they don't like, well, they can feel upset at least, and go ahead and challenge it. It's not wrong. I just think there are better ways of dealing with this, and to me, upset and angry are two levels of the same emotion. Upset is just lower than angry, in my opinion. And yeah, not everyone sees this as a small thing, and I acknowledge that. But anyway, if it is a problem, mouth shutting may not be the best thing to do, provided it leads to the same thing for other, future DLC as some have said.

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Good. Great job on Aaron/RubyEclipse & his team's part in getting this rectified. Say what you will about SEGA & Sonic Team, but damn if he and his team aren't the hardest working fans turned professionals around. 

I wouldn't have been too bothered not to play as Super Sonic seeing as how the Chaos Emeralds weren't even mentioned once in-game. But at least those who want to play as him have the opportunity now without having to pay for it. I also hope this backlash (?) serves as a learning point - you shouldn't suddenly start charging for something that's traditionally been given as a reward for game completion.

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1 hour ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

On the first part you quoted, impressive,

Again with the condescending guff. Your arguments are too weak to actually pull that off.

Quote

Homing attack? Game saving? Music? I think you are overreacting a bit here. Sega is not that dumb to do that.

They were dumb enough to do Super Sonic, so says who? 

There's nothing wrong with wanting people to be less hostile per say, but I've yet to see anyone here actually doing that. In which case it's more of a moot point and just comes across as a defence of SEGA against the Mean Old Sonic Fans. 

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3 hours ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

Yeah, I know.

For me, even if they DID do something 'shit and greedy' in the future... I wouldn't get particularly angry or upset about it. I'd just either not play the game, or not use the feature, and move on.

And no matter what, I wouldn't react with snark, nastiness, and bile directed towards the makers of the game. Which yes, I know, nobody in this thread at this time is/was doing. Back when the DLC was announced, however, I saw that kind of reaction all over the internet.

So if microtransactions were introduced people can’t be pissed be angry towards a company, which doesn’t have feelings, for putting microtransactions in, as expressing anger and hatred of these business practices makes you uncomfortable?

that shit gets the job done. Anger can be a great tool.

 

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3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

So if microtransactions were introduced people can’t be pissed be angry towards a company, which doesn’t have feelings, for putting microtransactions in, as expressing anger and hatred of these business practices makes you uncomfortable?

...when did I ever say that people can't be pissed or angry towards a company? Of course they can. They can be pissed and angry, and they can express that anger and hatred as much as they want, however they want.

And then, in turn, their anger and hatred can be criticized by other people depending on the severity/method of expression/etc. This is, after all, mostly happening publicly on the internet - anyone can post their anger and frustration however they want... but then that also means that anyone can come along and say that they're being ridiculous, silly, overly dramatic, etc.

Do you think people should be allowed to do/say/act however they want on the internet... and be free from criticism?

 

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5 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Again with the condescending guff. Your arguments are too weak to actually pull that off.

They were dumb enough to do Super Sonic, so says who? 

There's nothing wrong with wanting people to be less hostile per say, but I've yet to see anyone here actually doing that. In which case it's more of a moot point and just comes across as a defence of SEGA against the Mean Old Sonic Fans. 

Heh heh. Maybe not on this topic, but I have seen people cussing Sega out on another topic. Perhaps you are reading it the wrong way, or that you have different definitions on what is hostile. Either way, you seem to be trying to defend and speak for such fans, the latter in which you just can’t do because not all fans think the same, and you are kind of generalizing those fans if you think no one was doing that.

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16 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Heh heh. Maybe not on this topic, but I have seen people cussing Sega out on another topic. Perhaps you are reading it the wrong way, or that you have different definitions on what is hostile. Either way, you seem to be trying to defend and speak for such fans, the latter in which you just can’t do because not all fans think the same, and you are kind of generalizing those fans if you think no one was doing that.

Again with the condescension! Can you not take the hint?

Anyway, I haven't seen anyone cussing out SEGA here, and other topics are irrelevant to the matter at hand. So if anyone's making weird generalisations here, it's actually you. 

Unless you consider "SEGA this is a dumb idea" as hostile in which case christ you need a thicker skin (and on SEGA's behalf, of all things). These companies aren't your bezzie mates and going to bat for them because someone called them dumb for making a dumb decision shouldn't hurt you - because I highly doubt Webber's going to read that and get upset when fielding far worse than that is part of his job.

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Me, generalize? Sounds like you have that backwards, Tracker. I know angry posts when I see them. You don’t apparently don’t since you don’t see it. But that is just text. Text can only say so much, but just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it is not there. To say no one is doing it is a misconception.

Enough with trying to speak for everyone, by the way. It just won’t help.

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16 minutes ago, KHCast said:

 

I gotta say... for me, personally, that was extremely cringeworthy to get through. I've never watched any of his content before, and I definitely don't think I'll be watching anymore in the future.

And I think I get the point of the whole video - anger is good, outrage is good, they're effective and get things done.

Which is true. Of course getting angry and outraged gets things done.

It's still ridiculous in my eyes, effective or not. And it damn sure isn't above criticism.

If you're being annoyed at work by a coworker, an effective way of getting them to stop... is to beat the crap out of them. That will probably stop them from annoying you. It doesn't mean that beating someone up because they annoyed you is a reasonable way to respond, nor is it the most effective and best way to go about resolving the issue. Of course it's not a 1 to 1 comparison to people being outraged over the DLC, but still.

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