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Sokker

Sonic is in my view better than Mario games

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Because Sonic tends to try to make games different from Mario series. Like Mario doesn't make me think of anything real. Sonic developed into 3D cinematic experience. Mario i feel is just like Tetris. Its good but it doesn't have the same quality of story and differences.

 

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I like Sonic more than Mario, but "just like Tetris"? Super Mario Galaxy? Super Mario Odissey? Super Mario 64? Super Mario World 1 or 2? Tetris? Sorry, don't get the reference.

As a Sonic fan it's hard to admit, but to me Mario games overall are just better in terms of quality. Sega tends to be satisfied with a certain amount of videogames sold, instead of thinking "Let's just rock the world with every Sonic game". However, no Mario game will ever be better than Sonic 3 & Knuckles to me. And Sonic Mania almost seems an "accident", seeing how Sega manages the franchise.

I liked Sonic games storytelling in Sonic 3 (and & Knuckles, and Mania), but from there, plots have usually been shabby (maybe Generations was the only forgiveable one), and music with vocals (especially because of the vocals) are just embarassing to me, like only 12 years old gamers would fully enjoy it. I just don't like what Sega has made from Sonic.

Nintendo, instead, has been way smarter in my opinion, releasing only great games, taking a few years to make the next one, and making sure every game is a masterpiece or nearly (I'd say only Super Mario Sunshine got worse scores than the rest of Mario games). Of course, I only talk about "canon" games. Not counting olympics, sports, etc. However, Mario Kart is an impressive franchise.

Anyway, anyone has its tastes. I just wanted to say that, while I have more fond memories of Sonic, I have to admit the whole Mario games collection is clearly superior to Sonic games collection.

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Obviously Mario games are better crafted and more enjoyable, but not enough for my tastes.

Sonic is definitely superior in his personality, he's charismatic, something that Mario doesn't know about. And his adventures and gameplay are just fun, thrilling and full of adrenaline. This is why I prefer Sonic.

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To me, Mario is a bread and everyone eats bread. But it's high-quality bread, crispy, warm, with herbs and stuff.

Sonic is... chili dog? No, wait, sushi! Not everyone likes it, but those who do love it much more than bread. The only problem is that most of his games are low-quality sushi, made with old ingredients, by bad cooks and this metaphor is going for too long.

(Obviously, I'm exaggerating a bit. But I'm fairly sure there are more people who 'love' Sonic than people who 'love' Mario. But much more people like Mario).

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Mario is like Mickey Mouse. His personality doesn't need to be perfectly defined. He's just a visual icon that Nintendo has managed to get identified with great games, pure entertainment.

And that's an awesome success from Nintendo. Mario will never get old. 

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2 minutes ago, ElectroKyurem said:

Mario has quality and seniority, but very little else. Sonic is objectively more interesting as a character.

Hmmm... For eating hot dogs? For being cool and edgy? I don't think it's that impressive for a character, honestly. 

Actually, what makes Sonic interesting as a character?

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Admittedly, Mario is superior and definitely has much more quality, but I just like Sonic more. Even then, Mario has had his own flops/mediocre games too. Hotel Mario comes to mind as an example, the educational titles, the Paper series after TTYD/Super, and I could also count the most recent Mario Party entries. I guess Nintendo learns from their mistakes when they commit them, unlike Sega.

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39 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Sonic has an actual personality. He isn't a blank slate like Mario.

Again, what makes Sonic interesting as a character then? The fact that he has some personality? I don't think any character is interesting for just having any personality.

 

5 minutes ago, EzSonic01 said:

Admittedly, Mario is superior and definitely has much more quality, but I just like Sonic more. Even then, Mario has had his own flops/mediocre games too. Hotel Mario comes to mind as an example, the educational titles, the Paper series after TTYD/Super, and I could also count the most recent Mario Party entries. I guess Nintendo learns from their mistakes when they commit them, unlike Sega.

Even Paper Mario has gotten praise from fans and reviewers. Compare that to Boom Sonic XD Also, like I said, I wouldn't count spin-offs like Mario Party.

The worst recent Mario game could easily be Sunshine, and then Nintendo came with Super Mario Galaxy. Nintendo definitely learns from mistakes.

Another example: Super Mario Bros 2 (both the japanese version and the USA version) was a bad step, and then they came with Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World.

Mario has bad games as exceptions. Sonic has average games as normal.

And still, I like Sonic better. Blame the nostalgia XD I could see that if I had had a Super Nintendo instead of a Mega Drive, it would be the opposite.

Of course, I got a Mega Drive only because of Sonic. And I know many of us were in the same situation. That's how great Sonic was in the early 90's.

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1 minute ago, molul said:

Even Paper Mario has gotten praise from fans and reviewers. Compare that to Boom Sonic XD Also, like I said, I wouldn't count spin-offs like Mario Party.

The worst recent Mario game could easily be Sunshine, and then Nintendo came with Super Mario Galaxy. Nintendo definitely learns from mistakes.

Another example: Super Mario Bros 2 (both the japanese version and the USA version) was a bad step, and then they came with Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World.

Mario has bad games as exceptions. Sonic has average games as normal.

And still, I like Sonic better. Blame the nostalgia XD I could see that if I had had a Super Nintendo instead of a Mega Drive, it would be the opposite.

Of course, I got a Mega Drive only because of Sonic. And I know many of us were in the same situation. That's how great Sonic was in the early 90's.

I guess you are right. "OK" Sonic games are the norm nowadays. I agree that's pretty bad when we compare to how good the series was in the '90s. But Sega won't care as long as they make a decent amount of money (in which they mostly succeed anyway), thus prolonging the mediocrity.

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2 minutes ago, EzSonic01 said:

I guess you are right. "OK" Sonic games are the norm nowadays. I agree that's pretty bad when we compare to how good the series was in the '90s. But Sega won't care as long as they make a decent amount of money (in which they mostly succeed anyway), thus prolonging the mediocrity.

That's the analysis many of us have done at some point in the last few years. It's frustrating loving something and then seeing how their creators are working hard on screwing it. Then we get small pearls like Sonic 1, 2 and CD remasters, and of course Sonic Mania, to make us remember why we loved the hedgehog.

Wishing Sega has enough money to make a great 3D Sonic game some day.

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5 minutes ago, molul said:

That's the analysis many of us have done at some point in the last few years. It's frustrating loving something and then seeing how their creators are working hard on screwing it. Then we get small pearls like Sonic 1, 2 and CD remasters, and of course Sonic Mania, to make us remember why we loved the hedgehog.

Wishing Sega has enough money to make a great 3D Sonic game some day.

Sega is no small company though, and I definitely believe they have the money to make an awesome 3D Sonic game, considering the profits they make from the franchise as a whole. Their laziness and overall incompetence is what I also believe prevents that from hapenning.

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1 hour ago, Splash the Otter said:

Sonic is objectively more interesting as a character.

I find Sonic more interesting than Mario personally, but..."objectively interesting" isn't a thing. Whether or not something or someone is "interesting" is such a blatantly subjective thing. To some people, more subtle characterization is actually more interesting.

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7 hours ago, Sokker said:

Like Mario doesn't make me think of anything real.

When I think of real things, I think of talking hedgehogs, killer robot ladybugs, magic rocks, and beating up gods.

Really though, while Sonic games may aim for more dramatic stakes, more often than not it bungles the execution so hard that it's less effective than Mario's typically simple but charming stories.

Not that I think a "cinematic experience" is what either series should be shooting for; both series' strongest element should be their gameplay. And while I'd argue the best of Sonic can just barely beat the best of Mario, Mario is almost always operating at top tier quality, while it's rare for a Sonic game to even be just "good" anymore.

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1 hour ago, molul said:

Again, what makes Sonic interesting as a character then? The fact that he has some personality? I don't think any character is interesting for just having any personality.

That's your problem.

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

When I think of real things, I think of talking hedgehogs, killer robot ladybugs, magic rocks, and beating up gods.

I think he means that Sonic's universe feels more believable, even for a fantasy setting.

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2 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I think he means that Sonic's universe feels more believable, even for a fantasy setting.

When I think of believable things, I think of talking hedgehogs, killer robot ladybugs, magic rocks, and beating up gods.

Really the Sonic universe has gone in so many different directions that it's probably among the least believable universes I know of. Mario's universe may be weird, but it's still got a level of self consistency that makes it easy to buy into, plus the fact that it doesn't expect me to take it all super seriously helps smooth over any rough edges.

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2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

When I think of believable things, I think of talking hedgehogs, killer robot ladybugs, magic rocks, and beating up gods.

Did I not say "even for a fantasy setting"?

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Really the Sonic universe has gone in so many different directions that it's probably among the least believable universes I know of. Mario's universe may be weird, but it's still got a level of self consistency that makes it easy to buy into, plus the fact that it doesn't expect me to take it all super seriously helps smooth over any rough edges.

Not sure what you mean by "self consistency" but one advantage of Sonic's universe is that it can be taken seriously. SA2's lore might not have been my cup of tea, but at least it was there and made sense in-universe. A big issue I have with most of Sonic's games over the past decade is that I'm not supposed to think about how anything works.

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1 minute ago, Splash the Otter said:

Did I not say "even for a fantasy setting"?

But it's not especially believable for a fantasy setting. It's a clusterfuck of random ideas. You've got your legendary floating islands and your magic rocks and your water spirits right up next to your giant space stations and genetic experiments and military coverups. The series hasn't built sensibly on itself since SA.

1 minute ago, Splash the Otter said:

Not sure what you mean by "self consistency" but one advantage of Sonic's universe is that it can be taken seriously

Maybe you can take it seriously, but I can't. Not in the sense of "this is a very serious and dramatic sequence of events that should affect you deeply" nor in the sense of "this is a thoughtfully designed and consistent series that rewards you for engaging with it".

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2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

But it's not especially believable for a fantasy setting. It's a clusterfuck of random ideas. You've got your legendary floating islands and your magic rocks and your water spirits right up next to your giant space stations and genetic experiments and military coverups. The series hasn't built sensibly on itself since SA.

I'm not really into sci-fi elements either, but I wouldn't call them out of place. I mean space stations have been a thing since Sonic 2.

Just now, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

This is kinda rude and also doesn't make your point whatsoever...

I know, and I apologize. I just don't understand how he can think that way...

1 minute ago, SaberX said:

Having a personality doesn't actually make the character any better. It's like saying that Misty from pokemon anime, a character who is know for her insulting behavior, short temper, unnecessary comments and little use of violence is better than Mario because she has a personalitty.

So you would rather have someone who literally only exists to be an extension of the player's will over someone with actual characterization?

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3 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I'm not really into sci-fi elements either, but I wouldn't call them out of place. I mean space stations have been a thing since Sonic 2.

I'm not saying that all sci-fi elements are out of place, I'm saying that the series just throws in any random idea the developers have and expects us to take it all seriously, and that doesn't make for a consistent or believable world.

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Nintendo have a pretty much an un-parralelled history in level of quality, especially when it comes to main series Mario games. But as far as characters , depth , lore , and music Sonic holds the crown between the two every time. For example , why hasn't there been a memorable cartoon/anime/TV series in the last 15 years at least about Mario? because theres nothing from the games to elaborate on. Yes its colourful and quirky but what is Mario like as a character? I have no idea. Sonic , Tails Amy and co. have depth of character a wonderful aesthetic in a rich and diverse world. This in my opinion is what has kept Sonic ahead of Mario despite some lacklustre performances over the years.

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