Sonic is in my view better than Mario games

[Razule]

23 minutes ago, superman43 said:

With Sonic you can be at least assured that there will be an enhancement and then a flop. As the time shown. That´s at least something, isn´t it ?

No fam that's not a good thing

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, superman43 said:

That´s your opinion. I didn´t play recent Mario games and now as I am looking at Galaxy gameplay it seems to me less of a platformer than for example Sonic Heroes or, hell, even 06.

Like exploration-based things never really suit me and sorry for that. That´s why I like Sonic even at the worst, if you want to be faster in a goal or to explore a new route there, you have to be precise.

So... Mario is a slow-paced and Sonic is fast-paced. That´s how it is and why it´s not comparable. OK ?

If you don't think they're comparable, then...don't compare them? I don't see what point you're trying to make, coming into a thread that is about comparing Mario and Sonic, comparing them yourself, and then telling people they're not comparable.

[knuckles20]

4 minutes ago, Legendary Emerald said:

Hmm...

Nice strawman you got there.

The point I was trying to make is if Sonic is better than Mario to other fans then let them be.

The attitude I was seeing towards Splash was a condescending tone of “that’s fine but you’re still wrong for not having the same opinion as us”.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, knuckles20 said:

The point I was trying to make is if Sonic is better than Mario to other fans then let them be.

This is a discussion thread. Nobody is hunting down people and harassing them for what games they like; people are coming into this discussion thread and discussing the subject of the thread.

[Legendary Emerald]

5 minutes ago, superman43 said:

That´s your opinion. I didn´t play recent Mario games and now as I am looking at Galaxy gameplay it seems to me less of a platformer than for example Sonic Heroes or, hell, even 06.

Like exploration-based things never really suit me and sorry for that. That´s why I like Sonic even at the worst, if you want to be faster in a goal or to explore a new route there, you have to be precise.

You just admitted to having not played Galaxy or other recent Mario games, just making assumptions as to how they play and how you are to play them based on video footage. Regardless of the topic at hand, I implore you to seek out and play some of these games. You'll find that they have tons of platforming and speed-running tech, even if they don't have a button that makes you instantly go fast.

The reason you don't see more linear 3D platformers like Sonic is that it is generally a poor use of 3D space, but if you really want precision platforming and a focus on speed, you'll love the hell out of the original Crash Bandicoot games; you can pick up the original PS1 games on PS3 psn, or the great N. Sane Trilogy pack for the PS4.

 

[superman43]

14 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If you don't think they're comparable, then...don't compare them? I don't see what point you're trying to make, coming into a thread that is about comparing Mario and Sonic, comparing them yourself, and then telling people they're not comparable.

My point is that you can compare them as a game, but from a standalone point they are not the same-fashioned platformers, even if one borrows some pieces of another.

Back at comparison with apples vs. pears. Mario can be the best sorts of apples in the market and Sonic can be an average or slightly better pears. There are many people that love those apples, but there are people that buy those apples and find out that it tastes like a rat shit for whatever reason. And then there are people who simply buy pears because they cannot stand apples. 

So, even if there is a minority buying those pears, it will be still there. Of course, it doesn´t mean that if there is a new sort of pear, they buy into it immediately.

7 minutes ago, Legendary Emerald said:

You just admitted to having not played Galaxy or other recent Mario games, just making assumptions as to how they play and how you are to play them based on video footage. Regardless of the topic at hand, I implore you to seek out and play some of these games. You'll find that they have tons of platforming and speed-running tech, even if they don't have a button that makes you instantly go fast.

The reason you don't see more linear 3D platformers like Sonic is that it is generally a poor use of 3D space, but if you really want precision platforming and a focus on speed, you'll love the hell out of the original Crash Bandicoot games; you can pick up the original PS1 games on PS3 psn, or the great N. Sane Trilogy pack for the PS4.

 

Ha, now you have shown yourself. I am a classic fan and I don´t like that button. And even without it there is much more enjoyment coming out.

We are basically here Sonic fans that don´t know what the point of the game is vs. those who know it. 

 

Another thing, Crash Bandicoot is sort-of fine, but I don´t have money for it. Why exactly should I buy them ? 

Thing no. 2. Visuals may be good, collecting can be good, platformers well it´s what you call it. But still, I am with my words that Generations can even after getting through the whole game excite me more than the 3D Marios could. Guess three times why... (And no, boost is not the answer, nor Classic Sonic.)

[Legendary Emerald]

6 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Ha, now you have shown yourself. I am a classic fan and I don´t like that button. And even without it there is much more enjoyment coming out.

... What, exactly, do you think you have caught me in? I too am a classic era fan who wants the boost formula to end, but that doesn't mean the Boost formula should be excluded from this discussion when it has been the norm of the series for a decade now (starting in Rush, continuing in Rush Adventure, Unleashed PS2/Wii, Unleashed PS3/360, Unleashed Mobile, Colors, Colors DS, Generations, Generations 3DS, and now Forces). And of course I am going to reference the mechanics of the 3D sonic games when you are talking about the gameplay of the 3D Mario games.

[superman43]

2 minutes ago, Legendary Emerald said:

... What, exactly, do you think you have caught me in? I too am a classic era fan who wants the boost formula to end, but that doesn't mean the Boost formula should be excluded from this discussion when it has been the norm of the series for a decade now (starting in Rush, continuing in Rush Adventure, Unleashed PS2/Wii, Unleashed PS3/360, Unleashed Mobile, Colors, Colors DS, Generations, Generations 3DS, and now Forces). And of course I am going to reference the mechanics of the 3D sonic games when you are talking about the gameplay of the 3D Mario games.

I caught you in that you were thinking I am not  With that even if they don´t have that button to go insanely fast. I don´t like arguing at all, but still Galaxy comes lame off me. Sorry for saying that, but that´s what I see. Odyssey detto. I saw so many parts and they were merely as appealing to me as Sonic Forces. Again, sorry, but that´s what I see.

[Legendary Emerald]

7 minutes ago, superman43 said:

I caught you in that you were thinking I am not

Again, I'm not sure what victory you think you've won. You brought up 3D Mario games and their tendency towards exploration as opposed to high speed platforming. I brought up how modern Sonic games have a button which leads to high speeds. There is no assumption there as to what gameplay style you prefer. I was comparing a 3D Sonic gameplay style to a 3D Mario gameplay style.

[superman43]

1 hour ago, Legendary Emerald said:

Again, I'm not sure what victory you think you've won. You brought up 3D Mario games and their tendency towards exploration as opposed to high speed platforming. I brought up how modern Sonic games have a button which leads to high speeds. There is no assumption there as to what gameplay style you prefer. I was comparing a 3D Sonic gameplay style to a 3D Mario gameplay style.

Again, you did not get me. I don´t care about getting fast, but still there is more in e.g. Sonic Generations then most if not all of 3D Mario games (meaning high percentage of the games itself, not in the way that it is better than 3 or whatever number of XY 3D Mario games).

Sonic Generations has some 3D platforming (EDIT: Just got through it) that I actually find charming and would find it charming as well if it had been in Forces, which is basically not. Still, Forces despite being a OK (or meh) game, it shows some intentions, but not real thoughts.
BTW. That´s why I like many others say that Sonic Team should take notes why the 3D platforming make sense in the places where it is in Generations and try to make stages that don´t pretend to do 3D platforming of any sorts, but do it logically and trustfully.

[Sean]

8 hours ago, superman43 said:

But still, I am with my words that Generations can even after getting through the whole game excite me more than the 3D Marios could. Guess three times why... (And no, boost is not the answer, nor Classic Sonic.)

The answer is that you're a blinded fanboy shitting on games you haven't even played because you've convinced yourself that your favorite series is better just because.

We have a rule against this, so knock it off, and take it to some other forum.

[superman43]

45 minutes ago, Sean said:

The answer is that you're a blinded fanboy shitting on games you haven't even played because you've convinced yourself that your favorite series is better just because.

We have a rule against this, so knock it off, and take it to some other forum.

Again, that´s what you said, it´s quite offending you know. And the bold phrase... well, I don´t see Sonic games like Forces, LW, Colors redeemable. And that´s about it for Mario as well. And still, it´s my own opinion. What you said is your opinion on me and I say it´s a bit bland. You don´t know me, I don´t know you.

It is interesting that with watching the videos I felt how much excitement I will get. Pretty strange, huh ? Like everyone is watching trailers before playing a game.

And at the very last, I am one of the persons for whom the best quality apple in the market (= Mario) tastes like a rat shit most time around.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

@superman43 Sean isn't trying to be personal with you. But what you're doing is criticizing Mario as worse than Sonic when you haven't even played Mario's recent games...that's the kind of "fanboyish" behavior that we don't need around here, and which is in fact against the rules.

[molul]

13 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

You know, I'm starting to feel like I'm not allowed to prefer Sonic over Mario.

Not at all, man Sorry if I made you feel like that.

See, I will always like Sonic more. But I have to admit Mario as a franchise is way more solid, has way so many more great games, than Sonic.

Does it make sense? Probably not, but here's another example: some of my favourite bands are Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead or Depeche Mode. And while Radiohead and Depeche Mode careers have been more solid, I still love the Pumpkins more because of a couple of albums that touched me more deeply than any of the other two bands albums.

The thing is that, one doesn't need to say something if worse to make your personal choice look better. We've had many mediocre, half-baked Sonic games for years, but we're still here. There's this passion that might never go away, and we keep hoping for another great game of our hedgehog, like Mania. 

So you're not alone on this. The only matter is that your argument to defend your choice doesn't make sense to us. But we're not judging you or forcing you to elaborate. You're free to do what you want. We're just talking here

[Iko]

I was used to love both series equally.

Both series have games that I like and games that I dislike, and often my opinion on those games is different than the average opinion, so I find myself often in a situation where my favorite games are bashed and trashed, and games that I dislike are considered masterpiece; I don't care honestly, I play what I like the most.

Recently I started to like Sonic a bit more, not because Mario games are bad, but because I lost interest in them... I basically played everything Mario related until 3D World (3D) and Mario Maker (2D), then Mario Odyssey came out, it hyped me at first, but as suff was revealed, I realized that the game was not for me. (I haven't played it but I'm not that interested in playing it, for several reasons, some of wich I may address later in the post).

I can see that Mario games are better on a technical and design aspect, they are accurately designed with effort, there are little to no bugs/glitches and they have well designed gameplay, controls and stuff... they are high wuality games, but sometimes, quality is not enough for a game to be fun (fun is mostly subjective and I'm refering to myself).

I cared a lot about Mario, mainly because of the gameplay, and then because of the world building; I had the illusion that each game added something to the world, making it more and more lively and interesting... then I realized that Nintendo was not interested in building a coherent world, there are incompatible lore elements such as the star festival being each countless years then Mario sees 2 star festivals in the gap of the 2 Mario Galaxy games, stuff like Super Marioland 2 gone forgotten and Mario Bros 2 events are barely referenced, Super Mario RPG is not canon because of Square, Paper and Mario & Luigi are separate continuities, etc... I just realized that they purposely wanted to make the world of Mario as generic as possible to keep it fresh for newcomers who never played the old games, and I just lost interest in the series as a whole.

Gameplay wise, I find the old games to be more fun than the modern ones; 2D ones, I love Mario Bros 1 (all stars edition because graphics, but I'm fine with the NES one), SMB3, Super Mario Land 2, and Mario World, but I simply find the New Super Mario Bros games to be boring... even though, out of them, I kinda enjoyed the Wii one (because IMO it's the one with the better and more creative level design).

I think it's a matter of gameplay, old games were harder but more fast paced, and with a better learning curve, while modern games are designed with casual gamers in mind, and iften instead of providing some cool platforming gameplay, they prefer to go the puzzle route or fill the level with funny gimmicks that are more "wow" effect than substance.

Of the 3D ones, I had some problems adapting to SM64 when it came out (still not my favorite because I don't like those small floating island levels and collect-a-thon gameplay compared to A to B of the 2D games) but after years of playing it I grew up liking it a bit; I LOVED Super Mario Sunshine, because while it's not a pure platformer, I like the adventure elements in it, the evolving environments as the stroy goes on, and overall the level design and the joyful atmosphere of Delfino Island (I still occasionally play it again because I love it), and I had some fun with 3D Land/World... even Captain Toad, I found that game to be very creative and I had a lot of fun exploring those little levels; But I hate the Galaxy games more than anything else, I find them boring and I don't like the platforming, unlike the other Mario games, momentum is less relevant, you have a super sticky walljump, the luma-double jump and all the gimmicks in the levels, I feel like the physics in that game are not suited for a dynamic platformer as Mario is supposed to be, and the emphasis on puzzles and linearity of the levels make the game just uninteresting (most of the times you can't even turn the camera around).

On the other hand, the Sonic Series keept me more interested, despite all the flaws.

Until Mario Sunshine I just liked both Mario and Sonic the same, I started to prefer Sonic after Mario Galaxy came out, and Unleashed was released with the new boost gameplay (that at the time was something stunning). Now I think the boost gameplay aged badly and Sonic needs something new, and I can see how quality-wise Sonic games are worse compared to Mario, but they are still more fun to me, I can replay a Sonic game several times, while I wouldn't play a modern Mario game again once I finish it. I even had some fun with Sonic Forces... all the problems it may have, I had a lot of fun doing S ranks and collecting all the stuff in the levels, some sets of red rings/numbers/moon rings offered some challenge, and some rank S as well, figuring out what wispon to use and how to exploit the level to get more points without abusing the daily bonus. I honestly would prefer doing it again from the start than collecting 999 moons or 900 Korok Seeds in Zelda, if you ask me, and we're talking about Sonic Forces, an highly flawed game that got mixed reception and has a lot of haters.

tl:dr

Mario is without any doubt better on a technical and design point of view but fails at being fun, Sonic is more interesting, at least for me... this only in modern times, because many years ago I just loved both series the same.

[superman43]

1 hour ago, Iko said:

On the other hand, the Sonic Series keept me more interested, despite all the flaws.

Until Mario Sunshine I just liked both Mario and Sonic the same, I started to prefer Sonic after Mario Galaxy came out, and Unleashed was released with the new boost gameplay (that at the time was something stunning). Now I think the boost gameplay aged badly and Sonic needs something new, and I can see how quality-wise Sonic games are worse compared to Mario, but they are still more fun to me, I can replay a Sonic game several times, while I wouldn't play a modern Mario game again once I finish it. I even had some fun with Sonic Forces... all the problems it may have, I had a lot of fun doing S ranks and collecting all the stuff in the levels, some sets of red rings/numbers/moon rings offered some challenge, and some rank S as well, figuring out what wispon to use and how to exploit the level to get more points without abusing the daily bonus. I honestly would prefer doing it again from the start than collecting 999 moons or 900 Korok Seeds in Zelda, if you ask me, and we're talking about Sonic Forces, an highly flawed game that got mixed reception and has a lot of haters.

tl:dr

Mario is without any doubt better on a technical and design point of view but fails at being fun, Sonic is more interesting, at least for me... this only in modern times, because many years ago I just loved both series the same.

I would also say that I prefer 2D Mario games (yet again, some may say that I haven´t play any 3D Mario etc. etc.) and well, one thing that I want to say as I won´t post here anymore.

1) When Super Mario Bros. came out you can clearly see why it was such a hit. It was a continuation of arcade games starring Mario, but on a newest home console. 

Sonic came 6 years later and it was a new concept. That´s why Sonic could compete with Mario in 1991-94 and why Sega Genesis got to such heights (despite being inferior to SNES in some characteristics). The concept of Sonic is better than Mario, but only the classics were in high levels of the execution and as soon as Sonic Heroes came out, it was a certainty that Sonic would hardly ever compete with Mario again.

In short: 

Mario - good concept, preciously controlled execution

Sonic - better concept, but only average or lower than average execution

So, when you look at Mario vs. Sonic it´s about whether you care about the concept itself or the execution of any concept. Sonic is still the same good concept, but the games are now average/meh. That´s it.

 

2) Sonic is stuck with concepts that should end long ago.

a. Wisps, the concept that should have been in Sonic Colors only 

b. Boost, that should have ended in Sonic Generations (= at its height) and altogether the quickstepping and the sections using it that were in the series since Sonic Unleashed

c. (for Modern Sonic) needless amount of 2D, mainly in Sonic Colors, a bit in Generations and, yet, again, Sonic Forces... plus "highest path to win in 2D" disease. It´s not really bad, but Mania did a good job with not having the fastest path always the highest one. (Examples = Flying Battery, Stardust Speedway act 2, Hydrocity act 1)

d. Having Classic Sonic in a game (Generations were enough, in Forces he´s needless)

e. (disputable) Having only Sonic (either Modern or Classic) playable or a character with similar moveset to Sonic (Avatar). But don´t think I want 7+ characters playable like in Adventure, that would be literally suicide.