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Sonic Racing Rumors - "It's happening, FOOLS!"

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1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

Not necessarily an advocate of Sonic being out of kart, but it's not too difficult to imagine Sonic drifting around in a spindash as he does in Generations. Just takes a little imagination. 

I mean snaking where you quickly drift back in forth in a snake pattern to build quick short boost.  around a corner I could see sonic driving like in unleashed of course controlled better. But then again they could take out snaking and just make it a straight racer like sonic r.

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Hopefully there will be courses and modes for foot racing, and others for vehicles!  There would be no missed potential that way, and I am sure that people, both who are already aware of Sonic R, and people who would learn when it was described in the info ahead of the game, would be excited about an indirect or direct followup!! 

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As someone who isn't just a Sonic fan but also a huge Sega fan, these rumors are very depressing. Seeing forgotten franchises like Panzer Dragoon, Golden Axe and Jet Set Radio finally getting some attention after years of negligence was really refreshing to me.

I'd still play a Sonic-only Kart game since I like the series, though. Knowing Sumo Digital, this new game will be good, fun and polished.

 

 

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A thing that I would love to see is a rally mode where you chose a location (based on existing Sonic games, like south island, or angel island) and you do several races on it; tracks are from A to B instead of lap based loops, when you reach the goal of a track you start the next one, that's set on the next zone of the game (for example, in Angel Island you would get Angel Island, then Hydrocity, then Marble Garden, Carnival Night, Launch Base); it works like a championship, each race gives you points based on your placement and at the end of the championship there is a final chart that sums all the points.

It would probably never happen, but it would be a dream for me! Especially if the environments are coherent, maybe you see the other zones in the background and the environment changes slighty when you get close to the end of the zone/beginning of the next one.

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7 hours ago, Razule said:

I wonder if it'll have a plot..

I hope so, racing games always have the funniest plots.
There's just something about introducing life threatening danger to a game mode where everyone's politely obeying competition rules and running in circles.

Problem with on-foot racing versus vehicles can be solved by just having small vehicles. Like Motorcycles. Why do they even need big bulking cars?
Unless it's a full on Sega racer, in which case of course we need Hornet and Outrun cars, but if it's Sonic alone, just put the slow characters on scooters and be done with it.
Dr. Eggman driving a motorcycle in Sonic Riders looked badass.

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It's partly about mechanics, partly about aesthetic. Smaller vehicles don't give as much leeway for personality to shine through them (take the Riders boards; as cool as they were, most of them were defined by colour scheme alone). Compare that to the differences between the vehicles of just the Sonic characters alone in the ASR series. 

It's also probably easier for them to make a kart racer because they're far more established than foot racers or other vehicle racers for mascots, plus they're more popular than non-conventional racers, plus that's what Sumo have the most experience with. 

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13 hours ago, Mayor D said:

The smaller box represents an on foot character/smaller vehicle... the larger one represents a vehicle/large vehicle.

The green lines represent where a trailing player must be in terms of being able to fire a weapon in order to hit the on foot player... the red for the vehicle.

Anyone can see that the vehicle is at a major disadvantage.

Are the projectiles in kart racers so small that this is a major issue? I can't say I had issues hitting smaller racers like Shadow and Ryo in the first ASR compared to standard-sized racers like Sonic and Tails. Besides, smaller racers being harder to hit could be balanced by making them suffer worse effects if they do get hit. Fragile speedsters and mighty glaciers show up in plenty of racing games, and I fail to see how expanding on this with an increased diversity of size between racers would be unbalanced. I point once more to the Motorstorm games. While they're not kart racers and don't have power-ups, they're still balanced such that bigger and smaller vehicles both have fair shots at winning; bikes and ATVs have to pay more attention to avoiding obstacles because the riders can get thrown from their vehicles easier than cars can crash, but their manoeuvrability helps them keep up with the bigger, stronger vehicles, which can barrel through stuff (including small obstacles as well as smaller racers like bikes and ATVs!) and maintain their speed without issue. 

13 hours ago, Mayor D said:

Say this is a bend which you can drift around. A smaller vehicle by it's nature should by the laws of physics be able to take a turn tighter than a larger one. However, in terms of the size of the object against the size of the larger vehicle. The smaller on foot character has much more space on the track to make a turn whereas the larger vehicle is more likely to impact the wall of the track.

This applies to pretty much all racing games, including Burnout, Mario Kart, Motorstorm and ASRT; Shadow's tank thing in the latter is noticeably bigger than, say, Tails' car, and can't get away with being as close to the edges of the track when drifting. Again, different vehicles have different characteristics - I do not see how having to learn them and taking corners differently by starting to turn sooner or later is a big deal, especially since this is something that already happens in ASRT. In addition, the greater manoeuvrability of smaller vehicles is once again offset by their lower weight/durability in this situation; I've lost count of how many times I've been pushed aside by a heavier vehicle while drifting in the aforementioned games.

13 hours ago, Mayor D said:

In this one, we're on the final straight of the track... there are other players ahead of us, blocking the way. A larger vehicle will find it much harder to get past the front leaders than a smaller on foot or bike vehicle.

A smaller vehicle can slip through those cracks, sure, but once again, this strength is offset by the risk of getting crushed between the larger vehicles if one of them notices and turns into you.

13 hours ago, Mayor D said:

The moment you introduce different sized vehicles, the smaller ones naturally get an advantage... unless... you factor in a damage variable, because naturally a smaller vehicle should be weaker than a large one. 

However, games which have a damage > reduce speed factor tend to be very pants. I can think of F1 All Stars which had this... and it's crap... if you so much as get hit once your out of the race.

I hope that my responses above have shown that there are ways to offset the advantages smaller vehicles possess.

I haven't played the F1 game you mentioned, so could you please go into more detail about this mechanic? Is it a permanent reduction to your speed when you're damaged, or more like a multiplier on the effects of items, as I suggested in my first point? If it's the former, then that does indeed sound quite pants for a kart racer where you're going to get hit with a lot of items. If it's the latter, then I understand the reasoning behind this decision, though naturally, being hit once completely ruining your chances would be too hardcore for a kart racer. It might work if it was combined with catch-up mechanics like getting better items or having increased speed, though.

14 hours ago, Mayor D said:

Yes and they also said multiple times that it didn't look right at all. 

In fact the reason I cited above were some of the reasons why bikes got canned from ASRT, aside from their unfair boost mechanic, they were just too overpowered given the size advantages.

That was why I offered solutions to the problems they identified.

Were those size advantages really the reasons? I thought it was more to do with visuals, and making it look believable that a small vehicle like a bike could transform into all these different forms. I'd appreciate a link if you have one handy, because this sounds like interesting reading.

Regarding the wheelie boosts, Mario Kart went through a similar situation - bikes were overpowered in Wii because of their ability to boost whenever, so they were taken out completely in 7. They then returned in 8, without the ability to get boosts in this way. I'd be totally fine with this happening in the upcoming Sonic racer - I'd rather have nerfed bikes than no bikes at all.

Regarding size advantages, again, I hope that my responses have shown that it is possible to make smaller vehicles balanced. If you have a PS3, I would also encourage you to download and play the demo of Motorstorm: Pacific Rift, so you can see for yourself how multiple vehicles can share the same track in a balanced way.

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If we really have to sacrifice all the other great Sega characters and let the All-Stars series become another Sonic series, than I really hope that at least they will go deep into this series and choose some really unusual tracks and characters. No more lazy nostalgia pandering. I'm sick of seeing Green Hill! I'm sick of seeing Chemical Plant! I also do not want to see any recycled levels from the last past 6 years returning once again. No Casino Night, Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill, City Escape or Speed Highway! No Windy Hill, Desert Ruins or Frozen Factory! Non of those uninspired levels from Forces so that you can save some money Sega!

Dig deep into this series an pick some very unusual levels for tracks. And not only from the main series. Pick also some from the spinoff games like Sonic & the Secret Rings, Sonic and the Black Knight, Riders, Sonic Rush, Sonic Chronicles etc.

Also, when it comes to characters, do not just pick the main series gang. Because we have seen them to death to this point. One reason, why Mario and Crash Bandicoot characters are so much more appealing to look at is because unlike Sonic characters they are designed and also animated differently. Mario looks and acts nothing like Peach and Crash is animated and designed very differently to Cortex. The usual characters from Sonic are just way to similar to each other. I mean look at Forces! All of Sonic's friends had pretty much the same role and same animation style!

I want to see some of the very unusual characters. Now that Ulala, Nights, Beat, Alex Kidd and the rest are gone, we need to fill this gab with some of the more unique characters Sonic has to offer. Like the Deadly Six, Chip, Maria, Merlina, Shahra, an orca, those three ghosts from Night of the Werehog, Prof. Pickles, Erazor Djinn fuck! Even Princess Elise or Chris Thorndyke sound for me way more interesting than such bores like Sticks, Jet, Wave, Storm, Espio, Vector, Classic Sonic, Infinite etc. 

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34 minutes ago, Jango said:

Did you said.. Chris? DID. YOU. SAID. CHRIS THORNDYKE?

Sure. I really do not want to see that same body type and animation style offer and offer again. Now that Nights, Aiai, Ulala and he rest of the Sega characters are gone, I really want to have some variety when it comes to the Sonic cast.

Also, some of the more "special" Sonic characters can actually bee used as a replacement for the Sega characters. Like Merlina and Shahra have an anime design, so they can be an replacement for the more anime looking Sega series like Phantasy Star, Skies of Arcadia and Panzer Dragoon, Lumina from Sonic Shuffle can be a replacement for Nights, and Elise is a really tall young woman, so she can be some what an replacement for Ulala and for Toejam and Earl we can use Zazz and Zomom for a skinny and a fat cartoon like looking character.

Also Chris can serve as a replaced character like... I don't now. Maybe Billy Hatcher or Alex Kidd. 

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I get it that you don't like mobians, but those are Sonic's thing :P

Most people prefer those to humans like Chris and Elise, even Merlina who doesn't fit Sonic, oh, and the Deadly Six outside of the recurring duo of Zavok and Zazz, the rest are unpopular.

I'd rather have the SEGA characters than those, in fact I did say I didn't want a full roster of Sonic characters, but half Sonic half SEGA, and some guests from other videogames. The only Sonic characters who really deserve to be in the roster if it's a Sonic roster, are the recurring ones, not some random one-off, so: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, Shadow, Metal Sonic, Big, Sticks, Infinite (who is a one-off, but just appeared in a main game), Rouge, Omega, Cream, Chao, Jet, Wave, Silver, Blaze, Vector, Charmy, Espio, and Classic Sonic, maybe add Zavok and Zazz for variety.

By the way, I do have more ideas about the game: the items, what if there were the elemental shields? That would be dope, imagine that, each shield lets you play on a different terrain without losing speed or falling, like obviously fire shield on lava, bubble shield underwater, and thunder shield through laser doors. It would be awesome! Rings to make you go faster (I copied that from Mario Kart, okay...), and some other idea perhaps.

As for the plot, I would absolutely have it, it'd go a lot like Riders 1, it would start with a tournament with eliminations, the prize are the Chaos Emeralds, which are fading away in the main games in terms of importance, and then, after half into the storyline, it becomes an adventure. I would really enjoy that. It would have been cool to make a crossover story too in the previous ASR games, I would have simply loved that. It doesn't take too much imagination in my opinion.

What do you think?

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I want to leave my opinion about on-foot racers.

To me they are totally possible, if the fact that they are harder to hit is an issue, then make some auto-aiming range aroud them, I mean, think of the green boxing gloves from the first SASR, they acted similar to green shells from Mario Kart, once launched, they travel straight in the direction you launched them until they find a wall, then they bounce with the right angle.

If an opponent is so small that's hard to hit, make it so that when the projectile is close enough to him, it becomes automated, it chases the opponent... you must still be precise, but perfectly hitting the small 3D model of the character is not needed.

The weapons don't even need to be punching gloves, they may go completely original and come out with new stuff, in a way that making the auto aiming thing makes sense.

The problem of the size of the character is only a problem if we have both on-foot and car riding character, but if the game is fully on-foot, every character would share the same issues, and nobody would take advantage of being bigger or smaller (Eggman may be the exception, but I'm sure there is a solution for that)

About gameplay, the only thing that would feel wrong is going reverse; maybe they could give a different type of controls at low speed so that you can freely move the character in any direction, then, as you gain speed, it becomes car-like controls.

With on-foot racers, you can introduce jump mechanics and maybe even rolling, making the game closer to a regular Sonic game, and by side effect, making it unique compared to other kart racers.

I always wondered why SEGA never implemented kart racers like gameplay (SASR and Mario Kart) in drifting sections of modern Sonic games, they control very bad IMO, not precise at all and, well, it just feels wrong.

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5 hours ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I'd rather have the SEGA characters than those, in fact I did say I didn't want a full roster of Sonic characters, but half Sonic half SEGA, and some guests from other videogames. The only Sonic characters who really deserve to be in the roster if it's a Sonic roster, are the recurring ones, not some random one-off, so: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, Shadow, Metal Sonic, Big, Sticks, Infinite (who is a one-off, but just appeared in a main game), Rouge, Omega, Cream, Chao, Jet, Wave, Silver, Blaze, Vector, Charmy, Espio, and Classic Sonic, maybe add Zavok and Zazz for variety.

By the way, I do have more ideas about the game: the items, what if there were the elemental shields? That would be dope, imagine that, each shield lets you play on a different terrain without losing speed or falling, like obviously fire shield on lava, bubble shield underwater, and thunder shield through laser doors. It would be awesome! Rings to make you go faster (I copied that from Mario Kart, okay...), and some other idea perhaps.

As for the plot, I would absolutely have it, it'd go a lot like Riders 1, it would start with a tournament with eliminations, the prize are the Chaos Emeralds, which are fading away in the main games in terms of importance, and then, after half into the storyline, it becomes an adventure. I would really enjoy that. It would have been cool to make a crossover story too in the previous ASR games, I would have simply loved that. It doesn't take too much imagination in my opinion.

I don't see how Wave, Classic Sonic and a random Chao are more deserving than characters like Fang, Buddy and Chaos, but everything else sounds good.

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23 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I don't see how Wave, Classic Sonic and a random Chao are more deserving than characters like Fang, Buddy and Chaos, but everything else sounds good.

Easy:

Wave - recurring in spin-offs, has a couple of fans, and more girls deserve a spot. Might have to clash with Tikal for a slot though.

Classic Sonic - why not? Sega implies there are different Sonics, they are different characters, and spams Classic Sonic everywhere.

Chao - everyone wants them back in some way, I don't know if I want a Chao but they've had a Nightopian before so maybe? Either that or Cream riding a Chao themed car.

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As with some folks, I'm a bit disappointed with the prospect of other SEGA series not getting in.

On the other hand, I actually feel like a pure Sonic racer has potential to be more focused than the All Stars one.

Hopefully we can get a variety of track themes, a character selection that looks something like the old Sonic Runners', more Sonic themed items and less boring gimmicks like the All Star item. Multiple vehicles/customization would be nice too.

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4 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Easy:

Wave - recurring in spin-offs, has a couple of fans, and more girls deserve a spot. Might have to clash with Tikal for a slot though.

I have to contest this.

  • Recurring in spinoffs: In that case, why not include Storm as well?
  • Has a couple of fans: So do all the characters I listed.
  • More girls: We might as well add Marine and Zeena while we're at it.
4 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Classic Sonic - why not? Sega implies there are different Sonics, they are different characters, and spams Classic Sonic everywhere.

I know, and I wish they wouldn't.

4 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Chao - everyone wants them back in some way, I don't know if I want a Chao but they've had a Nightopian before so maybe? Either that or Cream riding a Chao themed car.

The Nightopian was only "playable" because it was driving NiGHTS. I could go for Cheese following Cream though, or maybe riding in a little sidecar.

On a personal note, I'm not fond of the idea that three characters I really like are less worthy of being in the roster than someone who I find overrated, someone who as far as I'm concerned is already in the game and someone who isn't even a character.

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4 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Sega should make there next racing game have only women playable characters and Sonic, Tails & Knuckles as the only males playable in the game.

 Or we could have equal representation in the roster without it being a poor mans political stunt?

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