Most Annoying Sonic Characters

[DabigRG]

13 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Actually his wife Aleah Baker wrote that story, but was the story badly recieved?

Yeah, I've been somewhat confused about that myself.

Like, I recall one or two people making some kind of negative declaration back at Bumbleking, but they more centered around Phage and a "my friend" situation, respectively, and the story itself seemed to go by well enough.

Then a year or so later, I saw a few statements about how the story was supposedly weak and the characters were bland, so I'm honestly not sure what was happening.

[E-122-Psi]

It didn't change Sally's status with the fans whatsoever is what I mean. There were still fans who loved her and still the other half that vocally hated her with a passion every time she appeared on a panel. I think they submitted that Sally as a lead character would only leave the comic's fan base at war per issue.

[RedFox99]

10 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

It didn't change Sally's status with the fans whatsoever is what I mean. There were still fans who loved her and still the other half that vocally hated her with a passion every time she appeared on a panel. I think they submitted that Sally as a lead character would only leave the comic's fan base at war per issue.

And with the scenes with Nicole calling Sally out on being reckless and Sally's rebuttal to it, later on, I could some of her detractors having more fuel for their hatred of her. 

[E-122-Psi]

10 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

And the scenes with Nicole calling Sally out on being reckless and Sally's rebuttal to it, later on, I could some of her detractors having more fuel for their hatred of her. 

I find it ridiculous that Sally would be the DELIVERER of such a lesson about hypocrisy and it being harder to practice what you preach. That's been her crap for two decades and she was never the recipient to such a lesson.

I think that was the problem really, the writers wanted to 'redeem' Sally in the face of her haters, but I don't think they really got what was wrong about her in the first place, besides maybe 'the slap' if only because even her fan base wouldn't stop complaining about it. Sally's vice throughout the series, be it intentional writing or not, is her self righteousness and control freak tendencies (if well meaning in method), but the writers for the most part didn't consider Sally arrogant, hell, nearly all the bios list her as being humble and gentle. Only the earliest comics and episodes deliberately conveyed her as sort of pompous and irritable, and even there she couldn't really compete with Antoine.

I think this is also a large play into Sally feeling kind of 'vanilla' and dull because what is arguably the nearest she has to a foible isn't utilised or developed into a quirk. She's more an every girl whose shortcomings don't quite flow or bounce off of anyone vibrantly enough.

[DabigRG]

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

It didn't change Sally's status with the fans whatsoever is what I mean. There were still fans who loved her and still the other half that vocally hated her with a passion every time she appeared on a panel. I think they submitted that Sally as a lead character would only leave the comic's fan base at war per issue.

I guess, but was that really a point(much less really important) within the grand scheme of the story?

Cause really, Spark of Life was about Nicole, her origins, and how the context of it has effects in the present. Sally being there as support due to their connection didn't really mean anything aside from reinforcing that those two are essentially childhood friends. Sally getting any "redeeming" in the eyes of long-time readers for her part would've just been a side bonus at best.

And honestly, who cares? 

[RedFox99]

Just now, E-122-Psi said:

I think that was the problem really, the writers wanted to 'redeem' Sally in the face of her haters, but I don't think they really got what was wrong about her in the first place, besides maybe 'the slap' if only because even her fan base wouldn't stop complaining about it. Sally's vice throughout the series, be it intentional writing or not, is her self righteousness and control freak tendencies (if well meaning in method), but the writers for the most part didn't consider Sally arrogant, hell, nearly all the bios list her as being humble and gentle. Only the earliest comics and episodes deliberately conveyed her as sort of pompous and irritable, and even there she couldn't really compete with Antoine.

Once again, you've done an excellent job with summing up why a lot of people don't like Sally, If only Ian could've read this, then maybe he would've done better with writing Sally. If you don't mind, can I share a link to this on Tumblr?

[E-122-Psi]

20 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I guess, but was that really a point(much less really important) within the grand scheme of the story?

Cause really, Spark of Life was about Nicole, her origins, and how the context of it has effects in the present. Sally being there as support due to their connection didn't really mean anything aside from reinforcing that those two are essentially childhood friends. Sally getting any "redeeming" in the eyes of long-time readers for her part would've just been a side bonus at best.

And honestly, who cares? 

I think it was sort of a 'duo' story focused around Sally and NICOLE's chemistry, I do think it was at least a test to see if the two could hold a story as leads, much like the other Universe arcs seemed to be stories seeing if fan favourites could sell on their own.

Truthfully I don't think it worked. I was more interested in the side cast. Even NICOLE, if you take away her gimmick and premise, doesn't exactly have much of an actual personality either. The concept is interesting but how it's acted out isn't, even if NICOLE isn't 'annoying' like Sally sometimes is. (Actually I could argue the same about Bunnie, a cool concept and backstory, but can anyone list an actual quirk about her besides being a cowgirl?).

But yeah I have probably overthought this. It just sticks out because Sally seemed to end up out of focus post reboot after a few lingering attempts to make her a complex lead.

16 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Once again, you've done an excellent job with summing up why a lot of people don't like Sally, If only Ian could've read this, then maybe he would've done better with writing Sally.

In fairness Ian's team wasn't the only one who drew blanks with Sally and the other Freedom Fighters, it just sticks out because he was writer when internet was mainstream and critique was far more accessible, not to mention unlike other writers like Penders who'd rather claim the fan base has it wrong, Ian was blatantly pandering and trying to 'fix' things but still not making much progress with her in particular. I don't think reading this would have solved anything just like reading the whole Bumbleking forum didn't.

16 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

If you don't mind, can I share a link to this on Tumblr?

Just noticed you edited this on. If you think my pretentious critique about what is now likely a retired character is worth quoting go ahead.

[SatAMhog]

Most annoying character has to go to the CURRENT Charmy Bee who acts like a stuck up little juvenile.   Heck, I couldn't even stand him in Sonic X!  The only place I found Charmy had any character was under the now defunct Knuckles series....despite what Ken has done, I thought Penders did actually give Charmy a decent backstory as a runaway prince and his little "Awww" moment with Harry the cab driver always gets me(Charmy lost his best friend from childhood due to serious food poisoning and Charmy barely pulled through after he ate some of the same stuff).

[E-122-Psi]

9 minutes ago, SatAMhog said:

Most annoying character has to go to the CURRENT Charmy Bee who acts like a stuck up little juvenile.   Heck, I couldn't even stand him in Sonic X!  The only place I found Charmy had any character was under the now defunct Knuckles series....despite what Ken has done, I thought Penders did actually give Charmy a decent backstory as a runaway prince and his little "Awww" moment with Harry the cab driver always gets me(Charmy lost his best friend from childhood due to serious food poisoning and Charmy barely pulled through after he ate some of the same stuff).

The catch here is that I grew up with STC Charmy, so I barely noticed the difference. In fact I'm almost tempted to believe the games Charmy was inspired by STC's interpretation.

[Your Vest Friend]

Deliver yourself from temptation; he had similar characterisation in the revamp of him in the Sonic Manga from 92/93.

[Dr. Detective]

It's generally very hard for me to have any explicit hatred for a character. If I'm finding your character annoying then it's either struck a particularly hard nerve when it comes to my personal sensibilities or you just fucked up in a truly impressive manner. No one in the main cast are characters I hate. Obviously, Charmy's one of my favorites as he switches between my number 1 favorite and my second favorite with Dr. Eggman depending on my mood. Omochao never bothered me. The villagers in Sonic Boom at the most only really made me raise an eyebrow at some of their antics on the off-chance I was "bothered" by them. It never got as bad as the Bikini-Bottomites from Spongebob or anything like that for me. Even Sally Acorn, who I outright hated when I began reading the comics, I chilled out on over time and it boiled down to a "Don't Give a Shit" vibe.

Explicit hatred and annoyance with a portrayal of a character is something I tend to get more of however. Sonic's behavior in Sonic Colors and some of the issues of the Archie Comics is impressively grating and remains my go to examples of how not to write him. Despite being legitimately entertained by him sometimes, a lot of the over-the-top antics highlighting the more goofy aspects of Vector's character in the version of him that appeared in Sonic X bothered me a bit. 

Tails in.. pretty much any of the games from 2010 onward kind of speaks for itself at this point. I kind of feel like I can just say that and everyone will pretty much get where I'm going with that by now.

I do ultimately strongly believe in the whole "No bad characters, only bad writers" thing but if I were to choose a character in particular,  I'd have to go with Julie-Su from the comics. She was like an amalgamation of all the shit I hate in fantasy characters. Really angry and really bitchy in a way that wasn't cool or entertaining, while being saddled with a character I'm familiar with (Knuckles) for no real discernable reason, and a foundation that I found out later came to be through extraordinary shallow reasons, on top of my usual problems with wanting to see certain characters and being saddled with someone else I don't like for far longer than I could tolerate.

[E-122-Psi]

Archie, especially 90s Archie, wasn't exactly great for action girls. They were mostly cliches, being bland role models and hyper competent foils to the more abrasive male characters or obnoxious bitches who kicked their asses to show off their 'girl power'. I remember one issue Knuckles got beat up by a girl just for implying she needed to be rescued. Oh yeah, I'm so in love with this character now. She's so independent and doesn't take crap from people who are trying to help her.  

Naturally when Amy's rabid Sonic X personality got established they flanderized that aspect to high heaven for a long while too (while also diminishing that detail that X Amy usually had a crappy temper because she was a butt monkey). Oddly though, I don't remember her being as bad in the actual X comic.

[RedFox99]

1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

(while also diminishing that detail that X Amy usually had a crappy temper because she was a butt monkey

How was she a butt monkey?

[E-122-Psi]

1 hour ago, RedFox99 said:

How was she a butt monkey?

Ignored by Sonic constantly, fell victim to more slapstick, Eggman and his goons also interchanged between being terrified of her or mocking and kidnapping her.

In early episodes at least there were more times she TRIED to keep a nice disposition until someone was rude or crossed her first. It was only really later on she became a ticking time bomb.

[RedFox99]

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

fell victim to more slapstick

I remember one moment where a girl kept pulling on her ear, but even then Amy kicking her was excessive.

[SpongicX]

37 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

I remember one moment where a girl kept pulling on her ear, but even then Amy kicking her was excessive.

I thought that moment was hilarious. Especially since Amy was pretending to be a plush doll when that happened. She kicks the girl, then casually goes back to acting like a doll. It was a little more brutal in the Japanese version, where Amy called her a b***h.

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Archie, especially 90s Archie, wasn't exactly great for action girls. They were mostly cliches, being bland role models and hyper competent foils to the more abrasive male characters or obnoxious bitches who kicked their asses to show off their 'girl power'. I remember one issue Knuckles got beat up by a girl just for implying she needed to be rescued. Oh yeah, I'm so in love with this character now. She's so independent and doesn't take crap from people who are trying to help her.  

Yeah, admittedly, back when I was able to read through much of the Knuckles comic and got to the second arc, a good bit of the stuff around Julie-Su made me cringe a little.

Like, dated much?

6 minutes ago, SpongicX said:

I thought that moment was hilarious. Especially since Amy was pretending to be a plush doll when that happened. She kicks the girl, then casually goes back to acting like a doll. It was a little more brutal in the Japanese version, where Amy called her a b***h.

 

Yeah, I did too. 

[E-122-Psi]

3 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I remember one moment where a girl kept pulling on her ear, but even then Amy kicking her was excessive.

I admit it was a depending on the writer thing (much like her chemistry with Knuckles where either she or him were the more abrasive character for no reason). I remember a similar case after they were made public when she was getting pulled and prodded, and despite trying to keep her cool for a while (at least in the Japanese edit) she screamed to knock it off.

Amy's temper is something the writers always seem to have trouble balancing, in almost ANY interpretation. She can be a psychopath, a rude little brat, a grumpy old woman, or she can have barely any temper at all, making her kind of boring. I think the problem is they sometimes have problems diverging her short fuse from other flaws like being vindictive or curmudgeonly, which aren't necessarily the same thing.

The early 3D games were probably best for making her likeable but still a bit of loudmouthed hothead when she got offended, even Heroes for it's exaggerations, kept it mostly balanced.

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Amy's temper is something the writers always seem to have trouble balancing, in almost ANY interpretation. She can be a psychopath, a rude little brat, a grumpy old woman, or she can have barely any temper at all, making her kind of boring. The early 3D games were probably best for making her likeable but still a bit of loudmouthed hothead when she got offended, even Heroes for it's exaggerations, kept it mostly balanced.

Yeah, I'd say Heroes' problem was more that she was too preoccupied with Sonic.

But that can also come down to the fact that the writing/direction in Team Rose's story was not very smart and thus the attempt to have each member of Team Rose have their own motive like Team Dark just boiled down to "something related to Sonic" for Amy.

[E-122-Psi]

4 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Yeah, I'd say Heroes' problem was more that she was too preoccupied with Sonic.

But that can also come down to the fact that the writing/direction in Team Rose's story was not very smart and thus the attempt to have each member of Team Rose have their own motive like Team Dark just boiled down to "something related to Sonic" for Amy.

Meh, they at least weren't as vanilla as Team Sonic themselves were, where all three, even Knuckles, were just dumbed down to goody goodies stopping Eggman. Their dialogue was cringingly cheesy, yeah, but so was pretty much everyone's, except maybe Chaotix in some places.

I did like at least that Amy seemed invested with the other's agendas despite this, even when she lost track of Sonic again, she kept to helping the others find their friends, only meeting Sonic again as a bonus in the end.

[DabigRG]

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Meh, they at least weren't as vanilla as Team Sonic themselves were, where all three, even Knuckles, were just dumbed down to goody goodies stopping Eggman. Their dialogue was cringingly cheesy, yeah, but so was pretty much everyone's, except maybe Chaotix in some places.

Pretty much, hence why I didn't mention them. Knuckles was at least meant to be more competitive with Sonic, but that doesn't translate into the gameplay at all and only came up a few times as sprinkled flavor text.

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I did like at least that Amy seemed invested with the other's agendas despite this, even when she lost track of Sonic again, she kept to helping the others find their friends, only meeting Sonic again as a bonus in the end.

Yeah, I do like that too. I just wish it was much better emphasized/developed because I swear it's only two or three instances above Knuckles' rivalry.

[Livia_Gamer]

Chris is the most annoying  sonic character of all time

[DabigRG]

On 3/4/2018 at 8:56 PM, Livia_Gamer said:

Chris is the most annoying  sonic character of all time

Is he now?

On 3/4/2018 at 2:53 PM, E-122-Psi said:

 Their dialogue was cringingly cheesy, yeah, but so was pretty much everyone's, except maybe Chaotix in some places.

Wait, that's including Team Dark?  

On 3/4/2018 at 8:50 AM, E-122-Psi said:

. I remember one issue Knuckles got beat up by a girl just for implying she needed to be rescued. Oh yeah, I'm so in love with this character now. She's so independent and doesn't take crap from people who are trying to help her.  

 

Wait, who? And in what issue?

On 3/4/2018 at 8:50 AM, E-122-Psi said:

 

Naturally when Amy's rabid Sonic X personality got established they flanderized that aspect to high heaven for a long while too (while also diminishing that detail that X Amy usually had a crappy temper because she was a butt monkey). Oddly though, I don't remember her being as bad in the actual X comic.

Probably because the X comic was partly written by people who were aware of it's quirks/faults and knew how to use them.

On 3/4/2018 at 8:50 AM, E-122-Psi said:

Archie, especially 90s Archie, wasn't exactly great for action girls. They were mostly cliches, being bland role models and hyper competent foils to the more abrasive male characters or obnoxious bitches who kicked their asses to show off their 'girl power'.

That's the 90s, with it's Girl Power and Positive Discrimination movements for ya.

On 3/3/2018 at 4:01 PM, RedFox99 said:

And with the scenes with Nicole calling Sally out on being reckless and Sally's rebuttal to it, later on, I could some of her detractors having more fuel for their hatred of her. 

Uh...how so? I don't think I get/remember the context.

[RedFox99]

20 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Uh...how so? I don't think I get/remember the context.

 It gives off the impression that anyone who tries to call out Sally something will be the wrong since this was the only occasion anyone did so in the reboot.

[DabigRG]

9 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

 It gives off the impression that anyone who tries to call out Sally something will be the wrong since this was the only occasion anyone did so in the reboot.

...Huh. I-i don't really get that.