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Should Knuckles become an antagonist again?


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I think that Fang could replace Knuckles as the cocky antagonist guy, while Knuckles should stay a friend of Sonic, cocky as well but friendly; I wouldn't mind Knuckles opposing to Sonic occasionally, but I would be against the concept of him turning evil completely.

Now that I think, Knuckles should have been an antagonist in Sonic Unleashed, at least until you fight him. Eggman should have tricked him saying that Sonic is now evil and he abused of the dark power of the emeralds to transform himself into a werehog. This would have lead to a Werehog vs Knuckles bossfight, then the two may have teamed up and possibly be both playable in the werehog stages, along with Tails somehow playable in the daytime stages... it would have been a lot better for variety IMO.

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2 hours ago, Iko said:

I think that Fang could replace Knuckles as the cocky antagonist guy, while Knuckles should stay a friend of Sonic, cocky as well but friendly; I wouldn't mind Knuckles opposing to Sonic occasionally, but I would be against the concept of him turning evil completely.

.That was pretty much how the former acted in Triple Trouble, from my understanding. And given that he is a treasure hunter AND after the Chaos Emeralds for monetary reasons, it'd make perfect sense to bring him  back in that role.

2 hours ago, Iko said:

Now that I think, Knuckles should have been an antagonist in Sonic Unleashed, at least until you fight him. Eggman should have tricked him saying that Sonic is now evil and he abused of the dark power of the emeralds to transform himself into a werehog. This would have lead to a Werehog vs Knuckles bossfight, then the two may have teamed up and possibly be both playable in the werehog stages, along with Tails somehow playable in the daytime stages... it would have been a lot better for variety IMO.

Now that does sound like a really interesting idea.

Though thinking about it, why even have Eggman waste time talking to Knuckles, considering what he'd already done and was busy getting done throughout the game? Just have on the planet, already fighting against Dark Gaia Monsters at night, spot the Werehog, and charge him. 

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The "Knuckles is tricked into fighting Sonic" plot device is so overdone, can we please bury it for a few years.

They've been friends and allies for years now, and outside of a few cases of clashing egos, are mostly on the same page. Can we please let go this rivalry meme.

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2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The "Knuckles is tricked into fighting Sonic" plot device is so overdone, can we please bury it for a few years.

They've been friends and allies for years now, and outside of a few cases of clashing egos, are mostly on the same page. Can we please let go this rivalry meme.

I'd rather they not get rid of them being rivals, because their relationship is kinda boring without it. But there's better ways to handle that than having Knuckles get tricked repeatedly.

Like, if they were to have a Knuckles vs Werehog fight, they wouldn't need to have Eggman trick him. They could've written the story so that Sonic wasn't entirely in control as the werehog so Knuckles steps in to stop him from potentially hurting anyone. Or the other characters could've just thought he wasn't in control, or they could've not even known he was Sonic and just thought it was some scary monster guy who needed a beating.

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33 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 Knuckles steps in to stop him from potentially hurting anyone.

Honestly, the best way for Knuckles to be in Unleashed would be to just make him fight the Werehog because he wants to get that hero spotlight. Knuckles is too dumb for the whole "I don't want anyone hurt" stuff. 

Heck, Knuckles could just fight Sonic out of his own stupidity. Because, let's be real, just like most Sonic characters Knuckles has no depth. He's just a cardboard cutout, that everyone got used to, and the only reason people like him, is because he's always been there, like shitty drive-in food, that you bought because you've had nothing better to get and then just continued buying it because you got used to it, no matter how shitty it was in the first place.

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4 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Honestly, the best way for Knuckles to be in Unleashed would be to just make him fight the Werehog because he wants to get that hero spotlight. Knuckles is too dumb for the whole "I don't want anyone hurt" stuff. 

Heck, Knuckles could just fight Sonic out of his own stupidity. Because, let's be real, just like most Sonic characters Knuckles has no depth. He's just a cardboard cutout, that everyone got used to. 

Okay dude, come on. It doesn't take a genius to understand fighting bad guys to protect people. Knuckles has already shown plenty of times that he's willing to fight for the right reasons. There's no point in pretending he's far dumber than he actually is just so you can try to force some out-of-character role on him.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Okay dude, come on. It doesn't take a genius to understand fighting bad guys to protect people. 

Well, Knuckles decided to WORK FOR THE GUY WHO INFESTED HIS ISLAND WITH ROBOTS, so I suppose that either his concept of "Good" and "Evil" seems to be going bonkers all the time, or he just couldn't process that.

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Knuckles has already shown plenty of times that he's willing to fight for the right reasons. 

Adventure/Classics Knuckles-yes.

Post-Heroes Knuckles-no. That guy will beat you up for Pokémon cards if he feels like it. 

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11 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Well, Knuckles decided to WORK FOR THE GUY WHO INFESTED HIS ISLAND WITH ROBOTS, so I suppose that either his concept of "Good" and "Evil" seems to be going bonkers all the time, or he just couldn't process that.

Literally the whole point is that he thought he was defending the island from a bad guy...yes, he got tricked, because he's dumb, but that doesn't mean he fails to understand the concept of fighting evil.

11 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Adventure/Classics Knuckles-yes.

Post-Heroes Knuckles-no. That guy will beat you up for Pokémon cards if he feels like it. 

How are you going to say this right after ragging on classic Knuckles for not being able to tell good from evil. Like, you can't have it both ways.

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Also, the whole statement about "Knuckles wanting people to get hurt" was about Knuckles not giving a shit about people getting hurt, and just wanting to stroke his ego, not about Knuckles being morally confused. Kinda like how the GUN commander was in ShTH: working for personal and selfish reasons, rather than for the good of others.

 

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Just now, Diogenes said:

Yeah, so, nothing like Knuckles has ever actually been portrayed.

Lego Dimensions? 

Sonic Boom? 

Sonic Generations? 

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Do you have any specific examples, or do you just expect me to trawl through three entire games trying to guess which scenes you're thinking of?

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Knuckles may be a little dumb, but he isn’t selfish or heartless. I don’t see him as someone who wants to do something just to be popular (maybe prove himself strong, but not for someone’s attention) or ignore someone who needs help (unless he sees them as bad guys or deserving it). He also have his own reason (ignoring whether it’s smart or not) for his actions.

He gets tricked now and then since he isolated himself on an island all his life, never had that complicating manipulating stuff happening, and believes everyone has good in them. Also as BaronCrackle said the reason sounded pretty convincing. But at heart he cares for others and is serious on what is right.

Knuckles is a different character from Shadow (or Jet), having respect for each other but also having something to fuel rivalry. He had a thing with Sonic, but now it's solved. It may be fun to see them fooling around and competing with each other like friends do, but I can't see him fully antagonizing Sonic. 

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46 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Honestly, the best way for Knuckles to be in Unleashed would be to just make him fight the Werehog because he wants to get that hero spotlight. Knuckles is too dumb for the whole "I don't want anyone hurt" stuff. 

Heck, Knuckles could just fight Sonic out of his own stupidity. Because, let's be real, just like most Sonic characters Knuckles has no depth. He's just a cardboard cutout, that everyone got used to, and the only reason people like him, is because he's always been there, like shitty drive-in food, that you bought because you've had nothing better to get and then just continued buying it because you got used to it, no matter how shitty it was in the first place.

I agree, Knuckles isn't Shadow, he's not morally flexible and callous to oppose Sonic's own stances in morals, Knuckles is inflexible and loyal to fighting for the planent and justice as Sonic is but more rougher and simple minded about it than Sonic. You'd have a argument Knuckles ideal rival is Shadow since Shadow represents everything he would hate about Sonic if he was more of a jerk.

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It seems like it's better to just exaggerate and even get Knuckles' character wrong than actually make arguments about his actual personality.

 

Knuckles doesn't deserve this misunderstanding of his character.

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18 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

It seems like it's better to just exaggerate and even get Knuckles' character wrong than actually make arguments about his actual personality.

 

Knuckles doesn't deserve this misunderstanding of his character.

It's not just me tho.

The fans do it, Sega does it, the writers do it, Nakamura/Iidzuka does it.

Knuckles just has no consistent personality to speak of, so why not have some fun with farfetched concepts? 

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2 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Honestly, the best way for Knuckles to be in Unleashed would be to just make him fight the Werehog because he wants to get that hero spotlight. Knuckles is too dumb for the whole "I don't want anyone hurt" stuff. 

Heck, Knuckles could just fight Sonic out of his own stupidity. Because, let's be real, just like most Sonic characters Knuckles has no depth. He's just a cardboard cutout, that everyone got used to, and the only reason people like him, is because he's always been there, like shitty drive-in food, that you bought because you've had nothing better to get and then just continued buying it because you got used to it, no matter how shitty it was in the first place.

AND the Ron the Deatheater mindset rears it's ugly head--GAW--DAMMIT!

1 hour ago, A person, that exists said:

Also, the whole statement about "Knuckles wanting people to get hurt" was about Knuckles not giving a shit about people getting hurt, and just wanting to stroke his ego, not about Knuckles being morally confused. Kinda like how the GUN commander was in ShTH: working for personal and selfish reasons, rather than for the good of others.

 

You clearly don't understand any real portrayal of Knuckles' character, nor seemingly how character depth/complexity works. People can do good, enjoy doing it, and still have their own motives/reasons because that's just how they work.

In the case of the Commander Tower, he was in charge of GUN's operations before the Black Arms invaded and Shadow had been sealed for over 50 years anyway. Of course he gives a shit about the people he's protecting, given that he hates both The Blacks Arms &  Shadow due to  rightfully seeing them as evil creatures out to destroy mankind, and he eventually gained supreme control of the military that was responsible for everything involving The ARK in part to better fight them, least of all that IT"S HIS FUCKIN JOB! 

 

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I could get behind Knuckles mistaking Werehog Sonic for a Gaia creature. He's always been impetuous, so it would be in character for him.

1 hour ago, A person, that exists said:

It's not just me tho.

The fans do it, Sega does it, the writers do it, Nakamura/Iidzuka does it.

That doesn't make it okay.

1 hour ago, A person, that exists said:

Knuckles just has no consistent personality to speak of, so why not have some fun with farfetched concepts? 

Because that's character assassination.

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2 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Lego Dimensions? 

Sonic Boom? 

Sonic Generations? 

Boom!Knuckles is less intelligent than any other incarnation, so you might be right about him not understanding what heroic duty is. But I didn't see that in Sonic Generations. I'm unfamiliar with the LEGO Dimensions one.

. . .

Heh, my son and I just watched "Chili Dog Day Afternoon". In which Knuckles briefly becomes champion of a chilipepper people, almost fights Sonic to achieve their freedom, decides he can't do it in an instant and accidentally knocks the peppers into hot chili (with a panicked concern as they fall in), which luckily/randomly brings reconciliation between the groups. And all the while he only had a shoestring understanding of what was happening.

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5 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Honestly, the best way for Knuckles to be in Unleashed would be to just make him fight the Werehog because he wants to get that hero spotlight. Knuckles is too dumb for the whole "I don't want anyone hurt" stuff. 

Heck, Knuckles could just fight Sonic out of his own stupidity. Because, let's be real, just like most Sonic characters Knuckles has no depth. He's just a cardboard cutout, that everyone got used to, and the only reason people like him, is because he's always been there, like shitty drive-in food, that you bought because you've had nothing better to get and then just continued buying it because you got used to it, no matter how shitty it was in the first place.

Well, I just lost any interest in this conversation.

the character, if we should view him as that?

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I find it a shame that the only game I know of that has Sonic face all of his mind-controlled friends is Pinball Party. The rival battles from Sonic Generations make me think they could do a Knuckles boss better than the ones in S&K, SA1, and Heroes.

Sonic Boom did it. It was fun watching Amy try to take command while Tails flew in with the eggmobile.

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12 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

 The rival battles from Sonic Generations make me think they could do a Knuckles boss better than the ones in S&K, SA1, and Heroes.

 

Knuckles was on Team Sonic in Heroes. That's what made people so picky.

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37 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Knuckles was on Team Sonic in Heroes. That's what made people so picky.

True, I was talking more about the ability to fight him in general, as opposed to Sonic vs. Knuckles specifically.

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7 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Knuckles just has no consistent personality to speak of, so why not have some fun with farfetched concepts? 

Yes, his personality is inconsistent, to be honest almost all Sonic characters' personalities are, but this is still ridiculous hyperbole. One of the things that IS perfectly consistent about Knuckles is that he's not, you know, evil. He can tell the difference between right and wrong. He's firmly on the good guys side. He does things like working for Eggman and fighting against the heroes ONLY because he's tricked, NEVER for some ridiculous selfish motives like you've described.

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Knuckles` personality isn't that inconsistent where you can literally just throw any random characterization onto him and just call it a day. He's not that bright, but he knows his right from his wrong and he's not that far up his own ass that he'd neglect helping people to stroke his own ego. 

 

Like Jesus people lol.

 

 

9 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I'd rather they not get rid of them being rivals, because their relationship is kinda boring without it. But there's better ways to handle that than having Knuckles get tricked repeatedly.

Like, if they were to have a Knuckles vs Werehog fight, they wouldn't need to have Eggman trick him. They could've written the story so that Sonic wasn't entirely in control as the werehog so Knuckles steps in to stop him from potentially hurting anyone. Or the other characters could've just thought he wasn't in control, or they could've not even known he was Sonic and just thought it was some scary monster guy who needed a beating.

I mean in the sense of them trying to force them in an adversarial role for the sake of it. I don't mind them butting heads over clashing personalities and I even like how Knuckles seems to have some complex about one-upping Sonic in everything, but most of the times they fight, it feels incredibly forced.

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