Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DADDY SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE HAS CONCLUDED

[KHCast]

Isn’t that the first MH spirit outside Rathalos?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

9 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

Bad news:

Where's the bad news?

[dbzfan7]

16 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

Bad news:

 

MOTHER F*****

I really hate this practice it's annoying. I would be fine if it didn't take for friggen ever til they finally let the store have the spirit. I just got satisfied finishing my collection and now this shit.

I am hearing the Demo Data may count. So I may try that when the time comes.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Oh, they're doing the game-release-tied spirit thing again.

Sheesh.

[JezMM]

I was thinking, it's kind of a shame they couldn't have introduced the idea of a "basic" character - even lower than an echo fighter in standing - to compliment Mii costumes.

Basically the idea being what we've gotten out of Mii Fighters, but without the annoying imperfection of them having a dorky looking Mii face.  It would've been cool to have generic movesets that less popular guest characters could have been applied to - set small/medium/large sizes they have to adhere to for hitbox purposes, etc - the most barebones of facial animation (basically normal, exerting themselves and pain expressions are all you'd need - maybe happy and sad for the match results screen but you could live without those).  The only other concession would be them using the generic victory theme like Mii Fighters, unless securing licensing for a unique victory theme taken directly from their source game is feasible for every one.

I think it would have been more enjoyable to get the characters with generic movesets but at least 100% looking like the character, than Mii outfits at the end of the day, but admittedly it would've been a hard sell.  Something about the context of the Mii fighters just being "costumes" I think allows them to get away with this, whereas some might interpret treating them as "the character" but with a generic moveset would be seen as misrepresentational/disrespectful.  The mii costume thing gives a sense of distance from the "well it's not really them".  I think if it was just marketed as an evolution of the Mii Fighter system though, it could be reasonable as an idea.

 

It's funny that I didn't think of this at all until I finally got a wishlist character of my own in as a Mii Fighter. It really is a bittersweet feeling, lol.

[Wraith]

Part of the reason I want the characters I do in Smash is because of what they would bring mechanically to the table more anything else, so seeing Dante running around just using those flimsy generic mii fighter moves wouldn't be all that satisfying to me.

It also just kind of feels like a slippery slope even though it sounds reasonable on paper. Characters with awkward proportions like K Rool or Morgana wouldn't fit into the 3 generic hitbox sizes you decide to go with, so what do you do? Offer more options beyond that? Modify the costumes specifically? Stray away from characters like that? A little limiting compared to the fact that you can make a Mii costume out of anything.

What if the attacks aren't really serviceable or don't really fit said character? The Bomberman Mii costume is probably the closest thing in the live game to what you're talking about but I never really cared to buy it for that reason. Outside of the costumes that come with music, I have the Knuckles costume because of an inside joke with my brother and the Aerith costume because I buy everything vaguely related to her. That's it. Stuff like the Dante costume doesn't much appeal to me. I guess they could expand the attacks available  but when is enough enough, there?

There's also the fact that some license holders are really particular about some characters are portrayed. If you present it as a costume it probably gives you a little more wiggle room? Like that jokey Aerith mii costume based on her PS1 model probably doesn't need as much approval as if they had straight up tried to put Aerith in the game. That's just speculation though.

It starts to get to the point where you might as well just add said character, less you have a bunch of "Iconic" video game heroes running around that fall far below Smash Bros's standard of quality and leave fans asking for more and more tweaks to the system. Miis have historically come with some jankiness so your brain just kind of smooths over the quirks, but that gets harder and harder to do once you're playing as someone who looks like your favorite character. It's part  of the reason why they used to get so much shit for the clone characters to begin with.

Tbh I don't see the appeal of Mii/custom fighters to begin with. Always felt like resources that I would rather go toward having more costumes to buy for the existing cast instead. Would trade it all for a Skyward Sword/Ceremonial dress Zelda or a Masked Lucina.

(This isn't really meant to be an attack or argument or anything. I don't think it's a bad idea, I just decided to try and reason what problems might come from that and my brain went on a tangent.)

I think they should have went ahead and given Shantae a helmet like they did Sans/Cuphead. She's technically a human but artstyle wise she leans more toward that than realism.

[Salamander]

I do wonder how popular the Mii Fighters are and what the sales ratio and reception are of the costume elements, given that the discourse around them seems to be entirely of the "kiss of death for my fave" type (for anything short of indie characters who nobody thought would ever get in at all).  If the next game is a reboot with a heavily stripped-back cast, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mii Fighters were cut; and costumes for the main cast as a trade-off wouldn't be unconventional.

[JezMM]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Part of the reason I want the characters I do in Smash is because of what they would bring mechanically to the table more anything else, so seeing Dante running around just using those flimsy generic mii fighter moves wouldn't be all that satisfying to me.

It also just kind of feels like a slippery slope even though it sounds reasonable on paper. Characters with awkward proportions like K Rool or Morgana wouldn't fit into the 3 generic hitbox sizes you decide to go with, so what do you do? Offer more options beyond that? Modify the costumes specifically? Stray away from characters like that? A little limiting compared to the fact that you can make a Mii costume out of anything.

What if the attacks aren't really serviceable or don't really fit said character? The Bomberman Mii costume is probably the closest thing in the live game to what you're talking about but I never really cared to buy it for that reason. Outside of the costumes that come with music, I have the Knuckles costume because of an inside joke with my brother and the Aerith costume because I buy everything vaguely related to her. That's it. Stuff like the Dante costume doesn't much appeal to me. I guess they could expand the attacks available  but when is enough enough, there?

There's also the fact that some license holders are really particular about some characters are portrayed. If you present it as a costume it probably gives you a little more wiggle room? Like that jokey Aerith mii costume based on her PS1 model probably doesn't need as much approval as if they had straight up tried to put Aerith in the game. That's just speculation though.

It starts to get to the point where you might as well just add said character, less you have a bunch of "Iconic" video game heroes running around that fall far below Smash Bros's standard of quality and leave fans asking for more and more tweaks to the system. Miis have historically come with some jankiness so your brain just kind of smooths over the quirks, but that gets harder and harder to do once you're playing as someone who looks like your favorite character. It's part  of the reason why they used to get so much shit for the clone characters to begin with.

Tbh I don't see the appeal of Mii/custom fighters to begin with. Always felt like resources that I would rather go toward having more costumes to buy for the existing cast instead. Would trade it all for a Skyward Sword/Ceremonial dress Zelda or a Masked Lucina.

(This isn't really meant to be an attack or argument or anything. I don't think it's a bad idea, I just decided to try and reason what problems might come from that and my brain went on a tangent.)

I think they should have went ahead and given Shantae a helmet like they did Sans/Cuphead. She's technically a human but artstyle wise she leans more toward that than realism.

Yeah these are all very reasonable issues - the only one I'll say I did consider is when it comes to characters that don't fit the body-type... for K.Rool etc, I would just say it'd just be a case of "sorry this character is unfeasible because they don't fit onto the templates without editing their proportions significantly". They get suck with the Mii Costume treatment as it currently is.

I think this is more something I'd want to apply exclusively to characters who PRETTY MUCH look like the real deal but with a dumb Mii face.  Essentially, Sans and Cuphead, if they just gave them facial expressions, are what I'm suggesting already, and it's probably thanks to them that I'm now dreaming of a situation where more Mii guest characters look as good as they do.  I guess in that context, all I'm really asking is that... yeah they should've given Shantae a "helmet" like you say, lol.  I guess doing it that way, you could still just call them Mii Fighter costumes, even if basic emoting was added to the "helmets" as I'm suggesting.  And if IP owners were iffy about people getting silly by mixing and matching them, they could just release some as full body costumes which can only be worn all at once.

I don't really see the point of Mii/custom fighters either actually - or at least I didn't until I got one who was literally a pipe dream wishlist character for me lol.  So now I'm basically trying to figure out "how could this have satisfied me without being significantly harder to make?"  I can't say I'm interested in more costumes for the real fighters as an alternative though, neither option results in more beloved characters being playable (although I admit more variations on characters who have had multiple designs over the course of their series like Zelda is fairly appealing, since they are technically seperate characters - but I don't think that applies to too many of the roster ultimately).

EDIT: Oh, I knew there was one more thing I wanted to say - the comment on "they get so much shit for clone characters as it is" - I guess I'm coming from a place of naivety here when my proposal because clones have never bothered me at all.  I was actually disappointed by what a small deal the naming of "echo fighters" turned out to be due to how few there actually are in the game.  I dunno how many Mii costumes are worth one echo fighter but even if it's something like 10:1 I'd kill all the Mii costumes for some more echoes in a heartbeat.

Apart from Shantae and Sans I don't think they'd make echo fighter and I need Megalovania and Burning Town in the game.

[KHCast]

3 hours ago, Wraith said:

Tbh I don't see the appeal of Mii/custom fighters to begin with. Always felt like resources that I would rather go toward having more costumes to buy for the existing cast instead. Would trade it all for a Skyward Sword/Ceremonial dress Zelda or a Masked Lucina.

They’re funny and being able to mix and match clashing outfits and make cursed shit to fight people online with is fun. Idk how the “appeal” of Mii’s is any less different than the appeal of custom characters in something like say Soul Calibur. Customization is popular, and Mii’s fill that niche.

[Perkilator]

Imagine yourself as Sakurai, about to reveal CP11...and you get to one day utter the words:

"For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested (insert character here) and now I am so happy to finally see (insert character here) in the game."

Who would you pick in this regard? For me, it'd be Sora or Crash or Eggman.

[dbzfan7]

For me it'd be Tails or Crash or Ryu Hayabusa

[SenEDDtor Missile]

10 hours ago, KHCast said:

They’re funny and being able to mix and match clashing outfits and make cursed shit to fight people online with is fun. Idk how the “appeal” of Mii’s is any less different than the appeal of custom characters in something like say Soul Calibur. Customization is popular, and Mii’s fill that niche.

I wish we could customize the Miis further really. Maybe mix and match parts of the body outfits around like shirt/pants/shoes sections, and also have the ability to change the color of the outfits as well. Or maybe just being able to do that for the default Mii design, like just having generic Mii costume designs by default if you don't want to use the character outfits.

Then again, I'd kill for more customization options in stuff like the Stage Editor as well.

[DiamondX]

Sad that Dante got in only as a Mii costume but it's fine. My hopes for the final DLC character would be one of these three:

• Kiryu Kazuma from Yakuza (Kinda unlikely but there was that one Y1+Y2 HD port on the Wii U)
• Phoenix Wright from Ace Attorney (Honestly I want him less than the other 2 choices but he would be cool also)
• Nahobino from Shin Megami Tensei V (With how much Nintendo is promoting that game, who knows? He'd be an interesting choice)

[KHCast]

Wasn’t there a thing where the director of the Yakuza games when asked about Smash said Kiryu doesn’t hit women?

[Dejimon11]

I think that was in response to seeing Kiryu being in fighting games more specifically Tekken 7. 

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Wasn’t there a thing where the director of the Yakuza games when asked about Smash said Kiryu doesn’t hit women?

This was about Tekken, but he probably wouldn't get into Smash Bros for the same reason.

[DiamondX]

Forgot he said that...my hope is gone now.

Well, Nahobino and Phoenix are still possible...

[Salamander]

I've seen a few people suggesting Nahobino, but wouldn't he be likely to be released before his own game is released?  Has that ever happened with a Smash Bros. character before?

Edit: To be clear, I don't think it's a bad suggestion; I'm just wondering whether it's feasible.

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, Salamander said:

I've seen a few people suggesting Nahobino, but wouldn't he be likely to be released before his own game is released?  Has that ever happened with a Smash Bros. character before?

Roy debuted in Super Smash Bros Melee, ahead of Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade's release. It's pretty rare, but it's happened before.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

57 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

I think that was in response to seeing Kiryu being in fighting games more specifically Tekken 7. 

The same would likely apply to Smash as well.

[Salamander]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Roy debuted in Super Smash Bros Melee, ahead of Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade's release. It's pretty rare, but it's happened before.

Good enough for me!  Come to think of it, if it were Nahobino and they finished him in their usual three-month window, he could always be held back a while in order to release him at the perfect time for cross-promotion.  I'm about ready to revise upward my personal estimation of his chances, then.

Which means of course that, as usual, it will be someone nobody predicted.

[DiamondX]

Honestly main reason why I'd add Nahobino would be to better represent the series.

Joker only has Arsené although in game he can obtain almost every possible Persona (outside his teammates' ones). Nahobino instead could use attacks from party members like Jack Frost or something.

 

It's most likely not going to happen but I have a small bit of hope.

[Wraith]

Yeah I was actually a little bummed with Joker's kit when he dropped. When you talk about SMT/Persona in Smash Bros I think of switching Personas to fit the situation, along with a huge emphasis on buffs/debuffs. I wouldn't mind atlus getting another character if it gets me the playstyle I actually wanted.

[KHCast]

Yeah kinda surprised we don’t have a character that specializes in buffs/debuffs yet. Even Pokemon I could have imagined getting a rep with something similar to that playstyle 

[Perkilator]

Here's Kazuya's tournament