Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DADDY SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE HAS CONCLUDED

[MetalSkulkBane]

Soooo, what is this Panda thing anyway?

[Mr. Ion]

I kind of just want to get my thoughts on Smash across.

I got the game about a month ago. I think it's really fun and has given me something to do lately (other than schoolwork and drawing, that is). After 3 weeks I finally found a main in Cloud. From what I can tell, high-level players consider him to be just "ok", and his recovery isn't great, but I just really vibe with his playstyle. I think his neutral special and up-special are good and I like the limit break feature, it really adds another layer to the gameplay. All the other fighters are also pretty fun to play as. Sonic is pretty decent and it's fun to chain his specials but he isn't a fighter I would main, just a fun one to play. I don't really see myself becoming super competitive in Smash (especially given that I don't have online) but I kind of want to learn a few advanced strategies, even if only against CPUs. I haven't really gotten down strategies like short hopping or edge guarding, or even wave dashing, but I'd like to figure them out soon.
 

On the World of Light, it's a pretty ok run-thru. From what I've heard of the Subspace Emissary that seems a lot better, especially with the cutscenes of different characters interacting. The intro cutscene was on an epic scale but the rest is just..alright. I think the mechanic with Spirits could have been made a bit more complex or scalable, half the time I don't even need to switch my support spirits. At the same time, I just like spirits because of the different characters and how we can have characters like Rayman and Shantae. I think World of Light isn't too much of a challenge (since it's my first run I'm on normal difficulty; the only real challenge I had was the fight to unlock Bowser), but it's fun when I just want to turn my brain off. I think Smash 4 had the better side modes, honestly.

Something interesting I've heard people comment on is how Smash has become a lot more serious as of recent; essentially, the claim goes that since Brawl, the theming and the music and how seriously the series is taken, by the devs and the fandom, has become a lot stronger since those silly commercials for the N64. And maybe this isn't a bad thing- the series' competitive edge is what makes it so great, but at the same time, I think a lot of people want to see the series take more risks (though characters like Steve/Alex and Sora were a pretty big risk). Maybe this is just the influence of Western meme culture though...

One last thing, on the future of Smash. This is probably a once in a gaming generation event. I don't think I could fathom another instance where each and every major character in game is together in one gargantuan package with near-infinite levels of variation and matchmaking. Sakurai recently said that the next Smash game is likely far off, and he doesn't foresee it not involving him. Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to Ultimate being ported for a generation or two with a few improvements, like Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (though the Wii U was a special case in which many people didn't even buy the console). I would like Sakurai to pass the baton and let some fresh blood take over the series. Like I said, it's a risk, but it couldn't turn out too bad, right? The series has already solidified its legacy in the tapestry of gaming. Though, then again, Nintendo's practices, past, present, and future, would suggest otherwise...Either way, I see a few avenues that the series would take. I think it would be really cool if the next Smash game was kind of like "Smash rejects", where all the most heavily requested fighters who didn't make it in would be the starting roster. I was thinking that maybe the series' current roster could be the spirits for the next game. I think this game could be a smaller one in terms of scale, especially with its starting roster, maybe on the scale of Melee, so it can still expand into something greater. The other way I think it could go is where the next game builds on Ultimate, but characters are cut. Like mentioned previously in this thread, I think all echo fighters would probably be cut or be relegated to costumes, and major 3rd party characters would be cut. I think the team should open the floodgates for more 3rd party characters from franchises that are already in Smash, but only have one character. If they do keep echo fighters, maybe differentiate them a bit. Kind of like how Luigi and Dr. Mario have similar movesets to Mario (in Dr. Mario's case, very similar) but are still considered different fighters. I would also like some more female characters.

All in all, my Smash experience has been pretty fun so far, despite being about 3 years late to the party. 

[KairosDialga]

Honestly, tho, Mr. Ion, I feel like there is no such thing as being 'late' to the party really. XD The game itself is enjoyable even if you weren't there during the reveal hype trains. Though I feel ya on not wanting to be super competitive on that end. The best thing is always just take up using a character you enjoy playing instead of following the tier lists if you want to just have fun.

I've been kind of with the series since the beginning, and about the most competitive that I get is when I play against my BF in the game anyways. I don't really feel like I would ever be cut out for the major events since I don't really have the time to be able to play all of the time like those people do anyways.

But yeah, I don't blame why Sakurai would not want an entry in the series not involving him, since it is always a LOT of work to implement so many characters as it is, I honestly wouldn't mind just seeing a spinoff of the series that may just focus on like one of Nintendo's series instead of all of the ones that are involved, since then it means you would be more adding characters from that one series as well and keep the same core gameplay.

Though with him saying it would be long off for another entry, I would probably bet that it will likely be around the mid of whatever the next console's lifecycle will end up being, which is still a good several years.

But yeah, in my opinion, I liked the main gameplay of SSE more than WoL. Just because I liked how they incorporated the side-scrolling areas. I would rather see something that is a blend of SSE with the Melee Adventure Mode (Since SSE had more generic type of settings and ones that were slightly referecing some series, but nothing super sepecific, but I liked the theming of Melee's adventure mode too, where you had different areas directly based upon a fighter's source game) And thus I feel like they don't even need to have story cutscenes just to have fun with that concept, I would love to see something like that more where more of the native worlds of the characters get more involved in a side-scrolling gameplay instead of just the constant short duels that you get for WoL.

[Mr. Ion]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:32 PM, KairosDialga said:

Honestly, tho, Mr. Ion, I feel like there is no such thing as being 'late' to the party really. XD The game itself is enjoyable even if you weren't there during the reveal hype trains. Though I feel ya on not wanting to be super competitive on that end. The best thing is always just take up using a character you enjoy playing instead of following the tier lists if you want to just have fun.

I kind of agree that the hype train isn't really necessary to enjoy the game, but I think the atmosphere in general is nice, that aura of a new game. At the same time I feel like it's not really necessary to Smash Ultimate, like you said, because the game is so polished and loaded with content that there's already a lot of enjoyment to be mined from it.
 

On 11/27/2021 at 6:32 PM, KairosDialga said:

But yeah, I don't blame why Sakurai would not want an entry in the series not involving him, since it is always a LOT of work to implement so many characters as it is, I honestly wouldn't mind just seeing a spinoff of the series that may just focus on like one of Nintendo's series instead of all of the ones that are involved, since then it means you would be more adding characters from that one series as well and keep the same core gameplay.

I think it would be nice to have a game with the same core mechanics as Smash Bros but with one franchise, but then again, would it really be Smash Bros without the crossover element, especially with all the platform fighters that have been popping up as of recent? Though then again, maybe the core gameplay makes it so distinct, and it would be pretty cool to get a Smash-like game, but only with Kirby characters and stages, or only Fire Emblem characters, or only Pokemon characters (but better than Pokken Tournament this time), etc.

All of these are hypotheticals, so I guess we'll have to wait around until next console gen (which is not anytime soon for any console maker right now), but I'm curious to see what they cook up.

[Remy]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:09 AM, Mr. Ion said:

I don't really see myself becoming super competitive in Smash (especially given that I don't have online) but I kind of want to learn a few advanced strategies, even if only against CPUs. I haven't really gotten down strategies like short hopping or edge guarding, or even wave dashing, but I'd like to figure them out soon.

I wouldn't worry about Wavedashing at all. It's an iconic melee thing but you can't really do it the same way in ultimate and it's not exactly worth it considering the relative difficulty of wavelanding correctly vs. the difficulty of timing it.

Short hopping is a good one to learn/get comfortable with, especially now in ultimate you can do shorthops by just pressing x+y together, and shorthop attacks by pressing x+a. A lot easier than the precision timing of melee which I could pretty much never get comfortable.

I think edge guarding the CPU can be kinda weird because they don't act like human players, but it's a great idea to practice it both on stage and off stage guarding. Cloud has a few decent options for being an edgeguarding menace imo

 

[KHCast]

New competitive panda controller has been revealed 

 

[KHCast]

Final character patch notes are out, and holy shit there are a lot 

https://nintendoeverything.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-update-out-now-version-13-0-1-patch-notes-and-fighter-adjustments/

 

[dbzfan7]

Seems like the girls got nerfed. I'm referring to Pyra/Mythra.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Daisy, Ridley and Cloud got buffs. Very keen.

[Perkilator]

Shame they're not doing completely new Spirit Events anymore. There's a lot of recent releases that could've done with one:

• NEO The World Ends with You
• The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles
• Pokemon Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl
• Danganronpa Decadance
• ...and probably more

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Man, what a wild ride this game truly was. it did indeed make history and will live on to endure. From the first day, when everyone was announced to be back, to the days of reveal after reveal constantly topping itself and shocking people beyond their wildest dreams.

Smash Ultimate may have flaws, but they are well outweighed by just the mass amount of joy that this game brought from the things it did right.

[dbzfan7]

4 hours ago, Perkilator said:

Shame they're not doing completely new Spirit Events anymore. There's a lot of recent releases that could've done with one:

• NEO The World Ends with You
• The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles
• Pokemon Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl
• Danganronpa Decadance
• ...and probably more

Wait what Spirit Events are also over too!

[KHCast]

It’s speculated since they’re cycling back old spirit events and other events, however some new stuff like tournament events have still showed up like the heroes and villains one, so who knows, maybe they still are making those, or have a few still made they haven’t released yet 

[Perkilator]

Here's a concept I made for BWD a while back:

Spoiler

Intro: BWD flies onto the stage with his parasol, then switches to Spear as he lands
 

Stance/Idle 1: His idle animation from Return to Dream Land onwards
Idle 2: BWD stretches his arms
Idle 3: BWD admiringly glances at his weapon
 

Notable Palette Swaps: 

1. BWD (dee-fault)
2. P2 colors (yellow)
3. P3 colors (cyan)
4. P4 colors (green)
5. Kirby (pink)
6. King Dedede (cyan/red)
7. Meta Knight (navy blue)
8. Game Boy sprite (monochrome)
    

Walk: His walk from the modern Kirby games

Dash: His dash from the modern Kirby games

Damage: His damage animation from the modern Kirby games

Jump: His jump from the modern Kirby games; like the rest of the Kirby roster, Bandana Dee can jump up to six times

Crouch: His crouch from the modern Kirby games
 

Gimmick: BWD alternates between using a Spear and a Parasol. Every time a match starts, BWD always starts with a Spear. Basically, what I'm going for here is the Smash equivalent of a stance change character.
 

Normal Attacks

Jab:

• Multispear Thrust; BWD slashes twice (6%, small knockback), flurries with multiple spear thrusts (1% each, small knockback), and finishes with a straight jab (5%, OK knockback)
• Drill Spray; BWD twirls his parasol and sprays water on the opponent (1% each, small knockback)

Forward+A:

• Spear Thrust; BWD thrusts his spear straight forward (5%, small knockback)
• Parasol Poke; BWD pokes the opponent with his parasol, which opens up (6%, OK knockback)

Down+A:

Slide; BWD slides across the ground (5%, small knockback)

Parasol Hop; BWD hops slightly above the ground with his parasol (4%, small knockback)

Up+A:

• Skyward Thrust; BWD thrusts his spear upwards (6%, small knockback)
• Parasol Twirl; BWD twirls his parasol above himself (7%, small knockback)

 

Aerial Attacks

Air+A:

• Windmill; BWD twirls his spear below himself (9%, OK knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol in front of himself and sprays water around himself (10%, OK knockback)

Air Forward+A:

• Multispear Thrust; BWD rapidly thrusts his spear thrice (6%, small knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol in front of himself and sprays (10%, OK knockback)

Air Back + A:

• Back Thrust; BWD thrusts his spear behind him (6%, small knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol behind himself and sprays water (10%, OK knockback)

Air Up+A:

• Drill Spin; BWD points his spear above himself and spins like a drill (7%, small knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol above himself and sprays water (10%, OK knockback)

Air Down+A:

• Moon Drop; BWD briefly spins his spear, and then drops down (8%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Dive; BWD slowly falls down while using his parasol to break his fall (6%, small knockback)

 

Dash Attack:

• Ground Thrust; BWD dashes a long distance and runs his spear through the ground, thrusting upwards at the end (8%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Drill; BWD dashes forward and spins his parasol (11%, OK knockback)

Edge Attack: BWD pokes on the edge (6%, small knockback)

Get-Up Attack: BWD spins on the ground (8%, OK knockback)

 

Smash Attacks

Forward+A:

• Pinpoint Thrust; BWD thrusts forward, with an influence in direction based on the control stick’s direction (14%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Swing; BWD flaps his parasol as water spouts out of it (21%, medium knockback)

Up+A:

• Windmill; BWD hops up and twirls spear above himself (15%, OK knockback)
• Chumbrella; BWD thrusts his parasol above his head (7%) and opens it around the entire space just above it (17%, medium knockback)

Down+A:

• Finishing Leap; BWD jumps up and pokes the ground, creating a shockwave (14%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Twirl; BWD spins his parasol on the ground as water splashes around it (18%, medium knockback)

 

Grab Game

Grab: BWD grabs the opponent with his stubby little hand

Pummel: BWD headbutts the opponent (2%)

Forwards+Throw:

• Waddle Spear Barrage; BWD tosses three spears at the opponent (4% each, OK knockback)
• Aqua Cannon; BWD shoots the opponent out of his parasol (11%, OK knockback)

Down+Throw:

• Moon Drop; BWD jumps up high and crashes back down to stab the opponent (12%, OK knockback)
• Rainstorm; BWD opens his umbrella as it rains on the opponent (10%, OK knockback)

Back+Throw:

• Spear Fishing; BWD lifts up the opponent with a rope on his spear and tosses them behind himself (9%, OK knockback)
• Aqua Cannon; BWD turns around and shoots the opponent out of his parasol (11%, OK knockback)

Up+Throw:

• Spear Copter; BWD twirls his spear and lifts the opponent in a gust of wind (5%, OK knockback)
• Circus Throw; BWD spins the opponent around on his parasol and chucks them upwards (11%, OK knockback)

 

Special Moves

B : Spear Throw / Aqua Shot

• With the spear, BWD charges up to three spears to throw (5% each, small knockback). He can also angle the throw by tilting the control stick up or down and throw one spear after another while moving left or right.
• With the parasol; BWD fires a ball of water that falls to the ground after being shot (6%, small knockback). When fully charged, the ball fires quickly and never falls (18%, medium knockback).

B + Forwards : Gale Thrust / Parasol Shield

• With the spear, BWD charges an attack that has him dashing forward at high speed and distance (13%, OK knockback)
• With the parasol, BWD and uses it as a shield. It can either reflect projectiles or stop the damage from any other attack, but it's only open for a second. Stopping physical attacks staggers both BWD and the attacker, but BWD can recover more quickly.

B + Up : Waddle Copter / Parasol Drift

• With the spear, BWD flies around using it as a helicopter (15%, OK knockback); by holding B on the ground, BWD can fly freely in any direction
• With the parasol, BWD opens his parasol and flies up (7%, small knockback), then slowly falls to the ground afterwards. Like Peach and Daisy, BWD can close his by pressing down.

B + Down : Switch Weapons; BWD switches his weapons around. The weapon he’s not using is indicated by the Assist Star icon on the top left of his HUD.
 

Final Smash: Megaton Punch; BWD punches up to two opponents in front of him (7%), both of which are taken into a cutscene emulating the Megaton Punch minigame. BWD jumps high into the air, and then punches the ground with enough force to create a fissure that snaps Pop Star in two (55%, devastating knockback). Opponents above 100% are instantly K.O.'d.
 

Taunts

1: BWD looks around him, loosely mimicking his artwork from Return to Dream Land

2: BWD happily waves his arms

1+2: BWD falls asleep, thinking about an apple
 

Winposes

1: BWD’s win pose from the Megaton Punch minigame

2: BWD spins his spear and raises it upwards, mimicking his summon animation from Star Allies

3: BWD's victory animation form Return to Dream Land

 

Applause: BWD opens his parasol in the rain, sad about losing

Icon: Kirby series icon

Boxing Ring Title: Helper to Hero

Victory Music: The Kirby series victory theme

Kirby Hat: BWD’s…well, bandana; Kirby only copies his Spear Throw

 

[KHCast]

So is this a new event this battle for spirit supremacy thing? This sounds toxic having an online tournament with spirits enabled lol. I’m all for it 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 hours ago, KHCast said:

So is this a new event this battle for spirit supremacy thing? This sounds toxic having an online tournament with spirits enabled lol. I’m all for it 

To what are you referring?

[KHCast]

6 hours ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

To what are you referring?

The new tournament event currently going on in ultimate 

[KHCast]

Seeing smash Twitter loose their shit at Steve suddenly because a random Steve main took down Tweek, and talk about banning the character legit is sending me over the fucking moon in laughter jfc. Pros bleed like anyone, they’ll loose games sometimes, and Steve’s likely not getting banned. 

[KHCast]

I’m curious. Let’s say, Ultimate had brought back the Subspace Emissary, but it was literally just the Brawl story/level design, cutscenes and all, but the gameplay was slightly enhanced and updated to balance itself around smash newcomers from 4 and Ult. So basically, “Subspace Emissary enhanced/remastered edition”. The characters you could use for the first playthrough were the characters from Brawl that you could only play in the first playthrough back then, and afterwards you could use anyone. How would you guys have felt about that? Would you guys have preferred that over WoL, or would you expect that to just be a extra bonus mode to go along with it?

[Wraith]

41 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I’m curious. Let’s say, Ultimate had brought back the Subspace Emissary, but it was literally just the Brawl story/level design, cutscenes and all, but the gameplay was slightly enhanced and updated to balance itself around smash newcomers from 4 and Ult. So basically, “Subspace Emissary enhanced/remastered edition”. The characters you could use for the first playthrough were the characters from Brawl that you could only play in the first playthrough back then, and afterwards you could use anyone. How would you guys have felt about that? Would you guys have preferred that over WoL, or would you expect that to just be a extra bonus mode to go along with it?

If it got the same HD assets as the melee/brawl stages it would still be a massive undertaking. I think I'd rather them just make something new if they want to go that far.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I'd rather they made something new from scratch. Subspace Emissary is something that's a novel concept, but the concept wasn't handled particularly the best, especially going into the Great Maze, and it feels like something that needed another proper go, with lessons learned from the first attempt in order to really let it reach it's potential. Seeing an improved story mode would've been really cool, instead of the repetitive World Of Light stuff.

[Perkilator]

So, here's a bit of a crazy thought: assuming the Switch had the same power and technology as the PS4, how much different do you think Ultimate would be?

[KairosDialga]

22 hours ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

I'd rather they made something new from scratch. Subspace Emissary is something that's a novel concept, but the concept wasn't handled particularly the best, especially going into the Great Maze, and it feels like something that needed another proper go, with lessons learned from the first attempt in order to really let it reach it's potential. Seeing an improved story mode would've been really cool, instead of the repetitive World Of Light stuff.

I honestly would like to see like a combo of SSE and Melee's Adventure Mode. I liked how they integrated a side-scrolling platformer in parts for SSE, but I liked how the areas were themed after the franchises and there were a couple with quirks that went with the respective series in Adventure Mode. I would like to see a combination of that honestly, the platformerish style of SSE but then would allow you to incorporate more worlds from each game.

Perhaps set up in a way that each character has their own set of worlds or stages for their particular path (Like how Ultimate's Classic modes are talored for each character) but then if you complete one character's 'path' you can then take that character though the paths of other characters you may have already completed through that mode for. And it wouldn't be as much of a story mode as it is more adventure mode so no need for all of the cutscenes really.

Also...I liked how Melee/Brawl had the good ol classic mode and also how their classic mode was technically 'random' for who you fight against each round. The tailored classic modes for each character was cool on a first run, but then you know what to entirely expect so you end up not wanting to do subsequent runs with each character as opposed to when you didn't know exactly who it was you were fighting, it helped to give you some variety or even a fresh feeling on each run.

World of Light got...kind of repetitive easily. And I felt the final boss was kind of lacking feeling when compared to how darn fun Master Core always was to fight in Wii-U.

[JezMM]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:04 PM, Perkilator said:

So, here's a bit of a crazy thought: assuming the Switch had the same power and technology as the PS4, how much different do you think Ultimate would be?

Not significantly different I imagine, Smash is pretty set in stone as to what it is.  Maybe some characters would've been different, who knows what concepts never made it past the early stages after they realised it would be too heavy a load on the system to have that character in 8-player Smash on the busiest stage with the most assist trophies/items in play possible etc etc.

Even graphically, the game is gorgeous and there wouldn't have been that much need to go above and beyond on the backgrounds just for the sake of it (for example, the backdrop of Great Plataeu Tower would still likely be constructed mostly out of clever 2D rather than rendering it in real time).

[Perkilator]

You know, part of me wishes they added a new Assist Trophy with each Fighters Pass character. I know it would've been more work, but it would have made the DLC feel more integrated into the game.