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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - PLEASE SPOILER TAG LEAKS

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Not to mention “Ultimate” editions of games that still require you to go out of your way to buy additional content regardless if you want everything. The word ultimate rarely ever seems to mean what it is lol

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7 hours ago, JezMM said:

Ah okay, I misremembered.

Yeah, you know honestly it does feel like "Special" is the better name of the two than "Ultimate".  This doesn't feel like the "Ultimate" Smash Bros in anything other than characters and gameplay - which are absolutely the most important things, but it's because of those that the absences of all the little things are felt so much more deeply.  It's heartbreaking that we have this absolute polished gem of a base game but there are so many other absences.

 

I hope we have some new (old?) modes incoming - the tease of Ver. 3.0 in the most recent direct really does seem to imply that we'll be getting more than just the Joker DLC and the usual balance update.

So many series staples being missing bothered me way less in the long run then I anticipated but yeah it does feel strangely hollow. This is technically the most content packed Smash Bros game there is but it feels like there's a lot less without all the bells and whistles. The name "Ultimate' feels a little misplaced but NOA probably felt pressured to come up with something "cool" for the title, lol. It doesn't help that a lot of this game's presentation is revolving around a single player mode that's far from the best the series has to offer in terms of gameplay. Game feels weirdly off-balance. It hardly bothers me when I'm actually in the thick of things though.

My pie in the sky dream would be a target test mode on par with Melee's for every character. That would be a lot of work but doable for DLC content and I'd be 100% fine paying for it too. I've accepted Trophies and things like a true All Star mode are long gone. 

Stage builder would be nice too. Smash 4 letting you share stages online so easily was a super underrated feature. 

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

...a true All Star mode are long gone. 

I usually don't say "I don't get why people want X"...

...but, I legitimately don't understand it in this case, All Star mode is actually tedious and would just get more so every game. The way Smash 4 did it is kinda acceptable where you just fight the amount of characters you have unlocked and Smash Ultimate's set up would've worked for that, but I don't think they're gonna do that again.

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3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I usually don't say "I don't get why people want X"...

...but, I legitimately don't understand it in this case, All Star mode is actually tedious and would just get more so every game. The way Smash 4 did it is kinda acceptable where you just fight the amount of characters you have unlocked and Smash Ultimate's set up would've worked for that, but I don't think they're gonna do that again.

I think the mode needs some drastic changes to be worth playing for sure but making another endless smash mode was just boring to me personally

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Target Test was great for a number of reasons, but key among them I think is that it teaches you movement and attacking quirks for specific characters in ways that aren't immediately obvious. Like "bouncing a Mario Fireball into a gap too small for anything but the projectile to fit through" is obvious enough, but then take, say, a Jigglypuff stage.

Jigglypuff_Target_Smash_SSB.jpg

798px-TPUFF-NRML-SSBM.jpg

At first glance a stage like this looks impossible. Hell, it is if you're in the habit of just mashing the jump button whenever you need distance, because the lower jumps are spaced out in such a way that you really need to conserve your multijumps and rely on Pound stalling or Jiggly's high raw airspeed to make it all the way over. And learning that gives you an immediate benefit in actual matches too, up to and including juggling somebody all the way to a blastzone and making it back with jumps to spare. Target Tests are, with a few exceptions (seriously what the fuck is Ganon's stage supposed to be?), filled with helpful nuances like this that people today take heavily for granted. Using Link's Bombs and returning Boomerangs to hit from unexpected angles. Using Pikachu's Thunder Jolt and Thunder to cover low and high recoveries respectively. Trick shots with PK Thunder and Flash. Young Link's walljump ability. And so on and so forth.

And it's a crying shame that they've dialed back on these starting with Brawl, because some characters since then really fucking need something like this. Even just off the top of my head I can tell you Duck Hunt and Pacman have a lot of setups and trick shots that aren't immediately obvious but help their game considerably once mastered. Snake, for lack of a better description, needs to have Grenades, C4s and Nikitias in pretty precise spots to make good use of them most of the time. And to be totally honest I didn't even know ROB's forward B was a reflector until I had it pointed out to me. Ultimate has a lot to gain from something like this.

Hell, I remember being disappointed playing through Classic the second time and realizing every character had the same lame-ass Race to the Finish segment - even customizing those per character would have gone a long way.

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Target test with unique stage designs is definitely my biggest hope.  I wouldn't even mind if similar characters shared stages with minor differences (i.e. Marth and Lucina would have an identical layout - Marth and Roy would have the same layout but with minor differences of target placement.  Mario, Dr. Mario and Luigi would have the same stage geometry, but a few areas have targets re-arranged to reflect their different projectile arcs, Luigi and Dr. Mario would share a target geared towards the Tornado move, Luigi would have a unique one that requires the Green Missile, etc).

Also ideally for ease of development they could use generic aesthetics for the geometry, but using backgrounds from across the 103 stages for visual (and musical) variety.

And heck, you know what, if push came to shove, I'd even be okay with them just re-using existing target tests for the pre-Brawl characters, and just developing new ones for the characters since (though maybe re-use a variety from 64 and Melee if that was the case, a few Melee ones were a little lacking (not a fan of Luigi's in particular - Ganondorf and Mr. G&W were similar but I don't mind them as much - Ganondorf had interesting patterns and the quirk of Mr. G&W's being like a G&W game was appreciated).

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Yep. I really miss Target Test. Regarding DLC and the roster...

Spoiler

I'm sure this has been said a million times but the confirmed and rumored choices just have me completely disintiterested and indifferent. I don't doubt there are people who like Minecraft, Persona and Dragon Quest so they will definitely appeal to the majority but I was hoping for more cartoon characters like Rayman, Crash, Spyro and Banjo, those would be hype for me. Not Minecrat Steve. But that's just me though. So far, Piranha Plant is my favorite DLC character, it's just so WTF and funny with a surprising moveset that it works!

If they ever do a Fighter Pass Season 2, the only thing that would work is making some AT's playable, since they in fact are the most requested characters, like Waluigi mostly, but also Shadow, plus Shovel Knight, Bomberman and Isaac. Those would be my top 5 who are really wasted as assists (and Zero too). Am I just delusional in my dreams? Or will they ever be playable?

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4 hours ago, JezMM said:

Luigi and Dr. Mario

Their Tornado's still work different, Luigi never got much horizontal distance out of his...but now he can't mash to get vertical height anymore either.

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9 hours ago, Blacklightning said:

 

And it's a crying shame that they've dialed back on these starting with Brawl, because some characters since then really fucking need something like this. Even just off the top of my head I can tell you Duck Hunt and Pacman have a lot of setups and trick shots that aren't immediately obvious but help their game considerably once mastered. Snake, for lack of a better description, needs to have Grenades, C4s and Nikitias in pretty precise spots to make good use of them most of the time. And to be totally honest I didn't even know ROB's forward B was a reflector until I had it pointed out to me. Ultimate has a lot to gain from something like this.

 

Yeah Smash characters have long had enough nuance to be worth having modes that explore them in full depth but now there's 70+ characters so it's easier than ever to miss them. I know most devs trust us to figure things out for ourselves online now but Smash bros has a lot of casual players that don't bother with that sort of thing so I think it'd be worth the investment. I still see confusion online about things like Bowser's "tough guy" mechanic. 

Melee acknowledging those things in it's target test made me smile even as one of those kids who obsessed over that game enough to figure a lot of that stuff out.

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3 hours ago, tailsBOOM! said:

Also,  Sakurai having Sonic vinyl music records kind of kills the whole "Biased against Sonic music" conspiracy that went on earlier in the thread

I don't think it was about "Sakurai is biased against Sonic music" as it was "SEGA is biased against Smash Bros." I bet it was a similar situation as Squeenix, where they were unable to license much more music for Ultimate.

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19 hours ago, KHCast said:

I thought the common idea was that composers that usually associated with Sonic simply despite being given options on what to remix, opted to explore outside that franchise. That along with legal shit 

I'd say it's because of the legality issues that the mainly Sonic composers made remixes from other games instead. They might've been perfectly okay with more Sonic remixes, maybe were outright begging to put Sonic remixes in there.  Composing for Nintendo franchises might be their way of getting revenge on SEGA for turning them down.

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it was between Mementos, Kamoshida’s palace, and Tokyo Square, as those are the most iconic locations imo, so this is fine if not a bit predictable lol

guess this possibly confirms dragon quest tho

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Thought I'd let you all know that Nairo is hosting an free online tournament March 23rd.  Grand Prize winner gets a trip to a Smash major, 2GG Metroid Prime Saga.  It will start at 1 PM EST on that day live on Twitch.  Anyone can enter (Including non-subs). Registration ends at Midnight the night before.

Registration Details Below:

https://smash.gg/tournament/ultimate-naifu-wars-trek-to-prime-saga/details

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4 hours ago, Wraith said:
Spoiler

Hopefully Stage Builder has more options this time

 

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6 minutes ago, Perkilator said:
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Hopefully Stage Builder has more options this time

 

Quote

Maybe some more songs can be added, too?  Wally's Theme is asking to be on an epic stage!

 

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Yeah I heard about this. Definitely hope though that more

Spoiler

new and old modes, including Target Test and more new bonus stages for Classic.

 

And this is just my dream/wish but… more bosses for Classic Mode please!! Tabuu, Porky, etc. some Pokemon and a couple more.

are added.

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