Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DADDY SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE HAS CONCLUDED

[Diogenes]

4 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

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I'm honestly pretty doubtful it's DQ. Not because it's inplausible mind, but because of the fact "Brave" is just far far too broad as a description. Joker's codename was Jack - which fits with Jack Frost as the Persona mascot. Brave can fit into a lot of things and a translation for a class in Dragon Quest, and Sakurai liking DQ3 isn't enough for me unfortunately, otherwise you could run that logic to try include the likes of Gino as the leaked fighter. Because literally the only other piece of evidence right now for me to add with this is the rumour that Square is due another rep.

 

Spoiler

Not that you should trust any supposed leak, but if we didn't know Joker was in, I can't imagine predicting him off of "Jack", because there's at least as many things that could mean as "Brave". Could've just as easily been Jack Frost himself, any number of other characters named Jack, some kind of card themed character or whatever. Considering there's been rumors of Erdrick even before this I'd say it's a pretty reasonable guess.

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

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Not that you should trust any supposed leak, but if we didn't know Joker was in, I can't imagine predicting him off of "Jack", because there's at least as many things that could mean as "Brave". Could've just as easily been Jack Frost himself, any number of other characters named Jack, some kind of card themed character or whatever. Considering there's been rumors of Erdrick even before this I'd say it's a pretty reasonable guess.

 

Spoiler

If you said the same thing to me in November, I wouldn't have either. But that's kind of my point, Jack is stupidly broad and only then specified due to a connection to the Persona series due to Jack Frost. I really don't think anyone would be able to get Joker from something so broad.

In that same vain, I think Brave is far too broad to be a DQ character simply due to it being translated from the hero class on Japanese Dragon Quest Heroes. It seems too broad for me to make that decision. It's a good guess, sure, but I don't think it's got any more or less backing than any of the other tons of speculation and leaks that we've had in the past. As I said, the only actual detail I see being added to this and not other guesses or claims is the additional rumours that Square will receive another character.

 

[Wraith]

Spoiler

Jack can more easily be read as a playing card reference, a motif Persona 5 uses a lot. There are multiple ways to come to the Joker conclusion.

Brave could be something else but I really can't think of anything that lines up as well.

 

[JaidynReiman]

18 minutes ago, Wraith said:

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Jack can more easily be read as a playing card reference, a motif Persona 5 uses a lot. There are multiple ways to come to the Joker conclusion.

Brave could be something else but I really can't think of anything that lines up as well.

 

Spoiler

 

The term "Hero" is used for generic player protagonists in many games, and for classes in many games. Its not at all specific to DQ, and as others have said, is EXTREMELY broad. Nothing points specifically to DQ at all, let alone Erdrick. The only reason you can come to that conclusion is the already existing rumors of Erdrick.

All the points against the idea that this points to Erdrick are completely valid. Nothing about this points to Erdrick. It CAN be Erdrick. But nothing mandates that it must be, and that's the whole damn point.

 

There's a valid example in Smash already, where the "Glory of Heracles" protagonist is referred to as "Glory of Heracles Hero" (not that I think it has to be this or anything). For many games, the main unnamed protagonist (who you must name) is referred to as the "Hero" instead of being given any sort of default name. And even in cases where their is a default name, "Hero" can work as a codename for that character, making it even broader of an example.

 

I do think there's a good chance it is Erdrick just based on the stats and based on the existing rumors... but the only reason anyone is considering Erdrick as a high priority already is BECAUSE of the existing rumors.

 

And it is also true that nobody would have flocked to Jack referring to Joker without the knowledge that Joker is already in the game. Though the stats do help point to Joker specifically.

 

 

[Plasme]

You would think people wouldn't be so easy to jump to rumours after falling for that obviously fake Grinch leak.

[PublicEnemy1]

8 minutes ago, Plasme said:

You would think people wouldn't be so easy to jump to rumours after falling for that obviously fake Grinch leak.

I wouldn't call it "obviously fake". It had quite a bit of evidence going for it and not much going against it. I'm fine with the roster as is, so I don't care.

[Plasme]

8 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I wouldn't call it "obviously fake". It had quite a bit of evidence going for it and not much going against it. I'm fine with the roster as is, so I don't care.

It claimed Banjo Kazooie was going to be in the game, which was so obviously fake I don't know why so many people believed it. Might as well hope for Master Chief too!

I could tell the leak was nonsense from the get go and said as much at the time.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, Plasme said:

It claimed Banjo Kazooie was going to be in the game, which was so obviously fake I don't know why so many people believed it. Might as well hope for Master Chief too!

I could tell the leak was nonsense from the get go and said as much at the time.

Considering at the time, Microsoft and Nintendo had actually gotten a small business relationship going due to the crossplay functionality of Minecraft on both Xbox One and Switch, and the two had been rather chummy with each other through social media and in general after that point, it wasn't really unbelievable.

The difference between Master Chief and Banjo Kazooie is obvious, Master Chief has literally no ties to Nintendo whatsoever, and is still an active exclusive for Microsoft. Banjo Kazooie hasn't had a new game in over ten years, has connections to the Nintendo 64, is highly requested, and would garner some money from licensing, and given that Microsoft and Nintendo were on good terms with each other, it's nowhere near unbelievable that Microsoft would see the deal as win/win - get some money for licensing the characters out to Nintendo for Smash Ult, especially since they've sat on the shelf doing nothing but collecting dust for a decade, and then if Microsoft does decide on a new Banjo game, being in Smash is probably one of the most massive publicity stunts you could pull to promote the game.

It claiming Banjo was in the game was far from the most unbelievable thing.

[Plasme]

Xbox isn't going to give their competitor's star game a freebie character to use. They would have to come up with some incredible deal and get everyone on the Xbox senior management team to agree to it. It's completely nonsensical and nothing but wistless fan dreaming, regardless of how much they seem to be getting along to try to promote cross play and dethrone Sony. . 

[KHCast]

40 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Xbox isn't going to give their competitor's star game a freebie character to use. They would have to come up with some incredible deal and get everyone on the Xbox senior management team to agree to it. It's completely nonsensical and nothing but wistless fan dreaming, regardless of how much they seem to be getting along to try to promote cross play and dethrone Sony. . 

“It’s completely nonsensical “ says who? You seem to act as if you know better than anyone else how Microsoft would work, despite the relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft lately. Seriously, get the fuck off your pretentious high horse. Not saying it’ll be banjo, but I’d be shocked if Microsoft didn’t have any rep period, especially given both Steve and banjos popularity 

[Plasme]

You don't hand one of your business competitors a golden ticket to make their biggest selling product sell even more. It's just not what businesses do, and it's completely unheard of in the console manufacturing industry.

Xbox and Nintendo have been getting along in recent years out of a desire to try to dethrone Sony, but don't be delusional, you aren't going to see Mario on the Xbox, and vice-versa, you aren't going to see Banjo-Kazooie on the Switch. It just isn't happening unless Microsoft sells the rights. 

And it doesn't matter what positive PR messages Phil Spencer has put out, this would be a serious decision which would need agreement from everyone in the Xbox senior management.

[Diogenes]

I don't really see what makes BK such an impossibility after all the other 3rd party characters in Smash.

[PublicEnemy1]

2 minutes ago, Plasme said:

You don't hand one of your business competitors a golden ticket to make their biggest selling product sell even more. It's just not what businesses do, and it's completely unheard of in the console manufacturing industry.

Xbox and Nintendo have been getting along in recent years out of a desire to try to dethrone Sony, but don't be delusional, you aren't going to see Mario on the Xbox, and vice-versa, you aren't going to see Banjo-Kazooie on the Switch. It just isn't happening unless Microsoft sells the rights. 

And it doesn't matter what positive PR messages Phil Spencer has put out, this would be a serious decision which would need agreement from everyone in the Xbox senior management.

Well aren't you a Negative Nancy. First, the rant on World of Light (which, while I didn't enjoy as I thought I would, was definitely NOT as bad as you put it), and then having a pessimist view on other companies getting along instead of an optimists' view. 

[Plasme]

1 minute ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

Well aren't you a Negative Nancy. First, the rant on World of Light (which, while I didn't enjoy as I thought I would, was definitely NOT as bad as you put it), and then having a pessimist view on other companies getting along instead of an optimists' view. 

I believe in being realistic rather than fantasising.

In regards to World of Light, I've preserved with it and am near the end. It does improve in the second half, but I still think it's very repetitive and badly designed. 

Thankfully, Smash Ultimate is still an incredible game in its traditional game mode, and it has a great classic mode.

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I don't really see what makes BK such an impossibility after all the other 3rd party characters in Smash.

Banjo is owned by a business who are a direct competitor of Nintendo. Comparing them to Square or Capcom is absurd.

[KHCast]

Yeah again, you can cut the pretentious “better than thou” attitude you got going on here. Your evidence against the possibility is nothing more than “cuz I said so and what I say makes more sense” so unless you got anything else going on here, you’re probably not gonna make much traction. There’s nothing to suggest it’s out of the realm of possibility when we got Cloud of all things.

[JezMM]

Rare were still allowed (are still allowed?  idk if they've done anything beyond the original DS) to make handheld games for Nintendo even after the Microsoft buy-out, because those products weren't directly competing with Microsoft's products.  I could see "cameo in Smash Bros" as an exception on similar grounds to that.  It's not like Microsoft can make their own Smash Bros with Banjo and hope for it to be even remotely as popular - they thankfully have Sony to thank for doing that research for them already.  Banjo in Smash would be a perfectly fine way to remind people the characters exist if they have a new B-K game in the works behind the scenes.  Xbox will still be the only place to play it if so.

[Plasme]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Yeah again, you can cut the pretentious “better than thou” attitude you got going on here. Your evidence against the possibility is nothing more than “cuz I said so and what I say makes more sense” so unless you got anything else going on here, you’re probably not gonna make much traction. There’s nothing to suggest it’s out of the realm of possibility when we got Cloud of all things.

You are the one who are insisting it's completely realistic for Nintendo's direct competition to hand them a golden ticket for one of their biggest games to be more profitable with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. And no, Phil Spencer saying nice things on Twitter isn't evidence of them actually going ahead and doing it and getting agreement from the Xbox senior management team. This is a way bigger deal than promoting cross play.

Square are completely incomparable with Microsoft, they aren't Nintendo's direct competition. 

[KHCast]

3 minutes ago, Plasme said:

You are the one who are insisting it's completely realistic for Nintendo's direct competition to hand them a golden ticket for one of their biggest games to be more profitable with absolutely no evidence whatsoever

Probably cause there’s no evidence against it outside your rambling “it’s their direct competition they’d never work with them” despite multiple instances proving that false.  Not to mention you act as if banjo or Steve being in smash wouldn’t give benefit to Microsoft, whether it be taking a cut of the profits, or just general exposure of their brands 

[Wraith]

Banjo wouldn't be my first pick personally but I honestly was surprised he wasn't in this game lol. Nintendo and Microsoft don't see each other as direct competitors and it makes too much sense as far as covering legacy franchises goes.

[Strickerx5]

54 minutes ago, KHCast said:

“It’s completely nonsensical “ says who? You seem to act as if you know better than anyone else how Microsoft would work, despite the relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft lately. Seriously, get the fuck off your pretentious high horse.

 

11 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Yeah again, you can cut the pretentious “better than thou” attitude you got going on here. Your evidence against the possibility is nothing more than “cuz I said so and what I say makes more sense” so unless you got anything else going on here, you’re probably not gonna make much traction. There’s nothing to suggest it’s out of the realm of possibility when we got Cloud of all things.

Tone it down KH.

There's never a need to be rude when discussing video games (especially when it comes to dlc). Simply state your objection and move on. Don't take this any further.

 

And as far as a Microsoft character coming into Smash is concerned, there's no clear answer one way or the other. Phil going on record stating that he'd be down for Banjo getting in does mean something (especially when you consider that Microsoft isn't really doing anything with the character to begin with) but then again, Microsoft is a big company. Anything can pull back that tweet in the boardroom. They have been trying to lean more towards basic consumer interest though (more than the other two have anyways) so maybe that new mindset of there's will come to shine here.

Doubt anyone besides Banjo or Steve stand a chance though.

[KHCast]

Just now, Wraith said:

Banjo wouldn't be my first pick personally but I honestly was surprised he wasn't in this game lol. Nintendo and Microsoft don't see each other as direct competitors and it makes too much sense as far as covering legacy franchises goes.

Isn’t Apple Microsoft’s direct competition?

[Plasme]

Just now, KHCast said:

Probably cause there’s no evidence against it outside your rambling “it’s their direct competition they’d never work with them” despite multiple instances proving that false.  Not to mention you act as if banjo or Steve being in smash wouldn’t give benefit to Microsoft, whether it be taking a cut of the profits, or just general exposure of their brands 

Nobody has proved my argument false. Saying "Nintendo and Microsoft get on really well now" doesn't mean that Microsoft will agree to put Banjo in Smash. I know Microsoft are more forward thinking about this kind of thing, but would you expect Samus' costume to show up as a unlock armour ala Hayabusa in Halo 6? Yeah...

The only person who's actually responded properly is Jez, and while that point is interesting, that's from a long time ago and isn't entirely relevant to what we are talking about here.

[Wraith]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Isn’t Apple Microsoft’s direct competition?

Well, yes in one market. Microsoft has their hand in a few different industries. 

The gaming side is a whole other thing. Sony is a more direct competitor who have been shy about collaborating with them compared to Nintendo. Even then MS shows a willingness to work with Sony on things like Crossplay that Sony itself just won't budge on. 

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, Plasme said:

It's completely nonsensical and nothing but wistless fan dreaming

 

20 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Comparing them to Square or Capcom is absurd.

 

27 minutes ago, Plasme said:

but don't be delusional, 

@Strickerx5 when he’s calling people idiots essentially for a reasonable guess, I don’t see why calling him out on that is what gets called out as being rude

[Ryannumber1gamer]

25 minutes ago, Plasme said:

You don't hand one of your business competitors a golden ticket to make their biggest selling product sell even more. It's just not what businesses do, and it's completely unheard of in the console manufacturing industry.

Except that isn't the case? First things first, Banjo Kazooie is a golden ticket? Really? Yeah, because they're making so much money for Microsoft doing nothing and being an inactive IP for over a decade now bar an occasional cameo in a promotional video. 

Secondly, you do realise that like none of the characters that are third-party in Smash are freebies right? Because SEGA, Konami, Capcom, and Namco didn't just hand out their third-party characters for free for either A. free publicity, or B. good will.

Nintendo has to pay licensing fees to the companies that own the IPs to various different third parties, and even hypothetically - Nintendo shelling up the cash for licensing fees to Microsoft would be earning MS a lot more money from Banjo Kazooie than they've gotten in a very very long time. On top of that, would Switch even be seen as direct competition? I mean, as much as I like the Switch, I feel like if you're buying one, you're buying it for a totally different purpose than a Xbox One, likely mainly to play handheld mode and occasionally on a TV, where you'd play Xbox and PlayStation for more powerful console games. That's getting more hypothetical at this point but whatever.