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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - PLEASE SPOILER TAG LEAKS

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I actually just started thinking about Ace Attorney Mii Costumes too. Maya's an obvious pick (although which weapon I dunno), and my personal pick would be Franziska. Depending on the alt Phoenix might get, my guess for costumes would be different.

If they pull a Persona, I'd assume we'd also get two or three hats. Blue Badger and Steel Samurai, maybe?

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1 minute ago, KHCast said:

Nintendo weren’t the ones picking the base roster for Smash 4, that was specifically Sakurai, hence why we got picks like Wii fit Trainer and Duck Hunt.

Well from Smash Ultimate, we've also got King K. Rool. With Ridley, Metroid hadn't exactly been in the spotlight either. It's defintely not exclusive to Smash 4, if you're insinuating that Sakurai is the main reason we got Nintendo.

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Nintendo with the DLC for ultimate however has much more say.

That said, we have to remember that Sakurai still has pull to the selection.

Please recall, that he himself stated from the selection that Nintendo intially makes, he decides whether or not that fighter goes through. Essentially, something of a list from Nintendo given to him.

3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Banjo is a easy win for goodwill to the fans, and opens the gate for future collaboration between them and Microsoft, so there was reason to go that route even if as a character he’s been obscure and forgotten by the mass market. 

I mean, let's also consider Joker, who no one saw coming with Nintendo calling the shots to boot as well.

Trying to simply factor in what's supposedly the biggest franchise(s) on Nintendo doesn't really work.

And hey, Nintendo actually helped publish and localize an Ace Attorney game themselves, well actually the crossover, but nonetheless, they have dipped their toes in with Ace Attorney pool.

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1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

Well from Smash Ultimate, we've also got King K. Rool. With Ridley, Metroid hadn't exactly been in the spotlight either. It's defintely not exclusive to Smash 4, if you're insinuating that Sakurai is the main reason we got Nintendo.

Well, yeah. Not sure where you’re going with that point, but yes my point is Sakurai for base game, gets say. There’s a reason he recently commented on the fact Nintendo staff were surprised by the “everyone is here” bit at E3 last year like everyone else.

3 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

That said, we have to remember that Sakurai still has pull to the selection.

Please recall, that he himself stated from the selection that Nintendo intially makes, he decides whether or not that fighter goes through. Essentially, something of a list from Nintendo given to him.

True, but nothing suggests 1. He’d by default go AA over any other Capcom Rep or 2. That Nintendo can’t hard press on certain characters, or hell, restrict by franchise(as in going “hey we want a character from AA, pick which one out of the list we’ve made”)

 

5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

I mean, let's also consider Joker, who no one saw coming with Nintendo calling the shots to boot as well.

Trying to simply factor in what's supposedly the biggest franchise(s) on Nintendo doesn't really work.

 

There are certainly multiple different marketing tactics to consider. Persona may not have been a pushed franchise by Nintendo, but it was a franchise of critical acclaim thanks to Persona 5 popularizing it, and did have a unannounced title coming to Switch. Plus sakurai loves the hell out of the game. So there was reason to go with him. Now not every character follows that promotion trend. Again, when marketing certain things, it can be presented in multiple different ways to warrant said decision. It’s not always “what’s the biggest” on Nintendo’s consoles, but that CAN be a factor at play for certain characters chosen.

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30 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

I think you mean, Luminary aka "The Hero". Erdrick is an alt.

Spoilers for Dragon Quest 11

Spoiler

Double spoilered for safety

Spoiler

Technically I wasn't wrong, as in Dragon Quest it's a title given to certain heroes.  The Luminary gets it too.

 

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2 minutes ago, tailsBOOM! said:

Spoilers for Dragon Quest 11

  Hide contents

Double spoilered for safety

  Hide contents

Technically I wasn't wrong, as in Dragon Quest it's a title given to certain heroes.  The Luminary gets it too.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I know that, but that's not what Smash refers to him by and he's not the "Erdrick" that everyone was expecting.

 

9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

nothing suggests 1. He’d by default go AA over any other Capcom Rep or 2

Well he has gone on to state how much he loves Ace Attorney. Akin to how he mentioned his love for Persona and the Dragon Quest series, both of which who are in Smash.

Phoenix Wright has consistently polled the highest amongst Capcom candidates not in Smash yet as well. And he has mentioned taking cues from the ballot for quite a few picks.

And he's been documented to have met with Takumi in 2016. The proper time for a meeting concerning the DLC which was in the works of being discussed as early as the game of Ultimate being in development.

Not saying it's guaranteed, but Ace Attorney has no slouch in the evidence supporting its chances.

15 minutes ago, KHCast said:

2. That Nintendo can’t hard press on certain characters, or hell, restrict by franchise(as in going “hey we want a character from AA, pick which one out of the list we’ve made”)

Never said they couldn't. Though I don't really see a reason to assume they've done so to Ace Attorney. Sure, it's always a possibility, but we could approach literally any series not yet in with that potential mark, so it goes without saying.

It all factors down to everyone having a shot, Ace Attorney included. With a few things notably in its favor that have netted others success. Not saying it's automatically in the bag, but things are looking good for Ace Attorney.

Think of that what you may.

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29 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

Well he has gone on to state how much he loves Ace Attorney. Akin to how he mentioned his love for Persona and the Dragon Quest series, both of which who are in Smash.

He also stated that sometimes he just enjoys tweeting about games he enjoys and not every appraisal is a hint or clue towards someone’s inclusion. And besides it’s a coin toss on that rule anyway. Sakurai never iirc posted about his love for Banjo after all.

 

29 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

Phoenix Wright has consistently polled the highest amongst Capcom candidates not in Smash yet as well. And he has mentioned taking cues from the ballot for quite a few picks.

Sora iirc ranked decently as well along with a number of characters that haven’t gotten in. And Joker wasn’t even on that list. Or Erdrick iirc.

 

29 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

And he's been documented to have met with Takumi in 2016. The proper time for a meeting concerning the DLC which was in the works of being discussed as early as the game of Ultimate being in development.

When was it stated the DLC discussion started around 2016? Wasn’t the game itself still in development then, with sakurai stating dlc discussion didn’t begin until after the game was completed? And sakurai has met with multiple devs in the past for it to go nowhere.

 

Again, while these points are worth consideration sure, I don’t find myself adding them to the evidence pile quite yet as there are exceptions/counterpoints to the presented evidence in favor. And yeah, you could argue the same for my RE points, fair. This is all just speculation after all, and I simply feel more strongly about that franchise personally 

29 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

With a few things notably in its favor that have netted others success

And I could say the same for Resident Evil lol.

I think there’s points for both, again it could go either way I feel, or Capcom may just get ignored. Anything at this point really can happen, but I simply am against the notion that RE wouldn’t bring anything, and has no reason to be considered

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496.gif

This is likely going to be me for the next like week.

Banjo-Kazooie is one of if not my favorite game of all time. I'd play through the game a ton when I was younger and it's one of the few games my dad also fell in love with, along with a few other 3D platforms from the N64. These characters mean a lot to me, and even if it's not a new game just seeing them here makes me incredibly happy, like seeing an old friend doing well after having gone through some hard times.

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7 hours ago, KHCast said:

He also stated that sometimes he just enjoys tweeting about games he enjoys and not every appraisal is a hint or clue towards someone’s inclusion. And besides it’s a coin toss on that rule anyway. Sakurai never iirc posted about his love for Banjo after all.

Again, I never said it was guaranteed. But what I have done is provide points in Phoenix Wright's favor. That's all. Simple as that.

7 hours ago, KHCast said:

Sakurai never iirc posted about his love for Banjo after all. 

I refer you to the segment about the polling, fan appeal and ballot.

7 hours ago, KHCast said:

Sora iirc ranked decently as well along with a number of characters that haven’t gotten in. And Joker wasn’t even on that list. Or Erdrick iirc.

Obviously not ALL characters are decided using the ballot. As for Sora, that poor boy is sadly a mess of legality issues the likes of which most characters aren't. He'll be a tough one to get in, popularity or not.

 

10 hours ago, KHCast said:

When was it stated the DLC discussion started around 2016?

It was stated a while back that the DLC had been worked on alongside the game since it's development. Partly thanks to the fact that most of the characters for Ultimate had already been decided and were ported up to the game. It's buried somewhere in the mountain of tweets and whatnot. Again though, it's nothing that's concrete on its own.

 

10 hours ago, KHCast said:

Wasn’t the game itself still in development then, with sakurai stating dlc discussion didn’t begin until after the game was completed?

Actually no. It was stated well before the game had reached the end of its development phase, actually as the tweet I posted earlier shows, at least as early as November, that they were already all picked. Before the game was completed.

 

10 hours ago, KHCast said:

And I could say the same for Resident Evil lol.

I think there’s points for both, again it could go either way I feel, or Capcom may just get ignored. Anything at this point really can happen, but I simply am against the notion that RE wouldn’t bring anything, and has no reason to be considered

Essentially, it all comes down to this. May the best potential Smasher win.

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On 1/5/2019 at 6:57 PM, Plasme said:

Xbox isn't going to give their competitor's star game a freebie character to use. They would have to come up with some incredible deal and get everyone on the Xbox senior management team to agree to it. It's completely nonsensical and nothing but wistless fan dreaming, regardless of how much they seem to be getting along to try to promote cross play and dethrone Sony. . 

Loooool. Well thaf was wrong.

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So I had my usual pre-Smash music musings, figured I'd share and invite anyone else to mention what their must-have music for Banjo-Kazooie would be (and Dragon Quest if you're so inclined, I don't play those games so whatever from me).

Using Joker/Persona's 11 tracks as a baseline to temper expectations, my personal picks for Banjo would be:

Banjo-Kazooie:

  • Spiral Mountain (confirmed in trailer)
  • Banjo-Kazooie Main Theme (it's the main theme, obviously)
  • Treasure Trove Cove (one of the most well-loved songs and worlds)
  • Freezeezy Peak (as above)
  • Final Boss (would be good for Smash gameplay, and allows Grunty's recurring theme to show up)
  • Staff Credits (this one is just a biased personal pick, I LOVE this song but - and this is crucial - it NEEDS to include the pretty little melancholy bit before the loop that is almost always missing from soundtrack release versions (which tend to be the most widely circulated versions online and it frustrates me to no end)

Banjo-Tooie:

  • Glitter Gulch Mine: Canary Mary Race (nice and energetic, and I feel this task was memory-inducing for a lot of players due to how difficult it was so early on?)
  • Hailfire Peaks: Chilli Billi & Chilly Willy (a personal nostalgia bias I guess, I just thought this was the coolest of the boss songs)

I don't have a lot of stock in the Tooie soundtrack for whatever reason. It got the musical and melodic style spot-on and yet almost none of the tunes stick with me like B-K's do. Having said that, when I flicked through the music to try and jog my memory, these two tracks stuck out as ones I had an attachment to as a kid.

Nuts & Bolts:

  • Discovering Banjoland (Banjoland's exploration theme - it's a medley of B-K music played with modern instruments so that's pretty convenient for Smash as is)
  • Testing Times (The Test-o-Track theme in Mumbo's Motors - nice and upbeat for fighting and is heard frequently throughout the game - as a bonus it allows Mumbo's recurring theme to make an appearance)
  • Nutty Acres Action (Nutty Acres' Challenge theme - since it's the challenge theme of the first world, it's probably one that most players remember, it's nice and energetic for Smashing, and it's just a nice little nod I think to include a N&B song that was original to the game)

If, like Joker, we use 3 remixes as a humble baseline, I'd probably give the second two to Treasure Trove Cove coz you could do some RAD stuff with that track, and Canary Mary Race since I feel the track has great potential but is probably the most in need of an upgrade from N64 midi to achieve it.

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Random observation: The more I look at him, the more interested I am in the Dragon Quest Hero. Was looking at his alts earlier

Hero_Palette_(SSBU).png

and trying to place where the second colorations are probably based off of. I admit I'm really casual about Dragon Quest so I could always be a bit wrong with my guesses, but I can definitely recognize Erdrick's (DQIII) second color is an obvious reference to the DQV hero. Eight's (DQVIII) looks like it may be based on the second.

I'm having a hard time placing Eleven's and Solo's (DQIV) colors though. With the Final Smash as a reference, I'm guessing Eleven's might be based on the default hero from DQX (the online game--you can also see him behind DQV's hero in the FS) but he doesn't have white hair. Solo's, from looking around, might be based on the first Dragon Quest hero (center in the FS). The coloration seems to match more closely compared to the DQVI hero (who I initially thought it might be, but the hair color doesn't match).

For a character I wasn't particularly excited about, and wrote off for a variety of reasons, I can't help but be excited for him now that he's been revealed in full and there are just so many little things that I notice as a casual fan.

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9 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Random observation: The more I look at him, the more interested in I am in the Dragon Quest Hero. Was looking at his alts earlier

Hero_Palette_(SSBU).png

and trying to place where the second colorations are probably based off of. I admit I'm really casual about Dragon Quest so I could always be a bit wrong with my guesses, but I can definitely recognize Erdrick's (DQIII) second color is an obvious reference to the DQV hero. Eight's (DQVIII) looks like it may be based on the second.

I'm having a hard time placing Eleven's and Solo's (DQIV) colors though. With the Final Smash as a reference, I'm guessing Eleven's might be based on the default hero from DQX (the online game--you can also see him behind DQV's hero in the FS) but he doesn't have white hair. Solo's, from looking around, might be based on the first Dragon Quest hero (center in the FS). The coloration seems to match more closely compared to the DQVI hero (who I initially thought it might be, but the hair color doesn't match).

For a character I wasn't particularly excited about, and wrote off for a variety of reasons, I can't help but be excited for him now that he's been revealed in full and there are just so many little things that I notice as a casual fan.

I'm thinking that Eleven's second color is a reference to the Trunks-looking guy from DQ8.

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50 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Eight's (DQVIII) looks like it may be based on the second.

That looks pretty close, although I was thinking he's based on Terry from DQVI. 

dq6_terry3.jpg

I agree, they really knocked Hero's costumes out of the park. Not only are they great references, they're all very varied and visually striking. And as a fan of the series it's nice to see people having positive reactions online. 

46 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I'm thinking that Eleven's second color is a reference to the Trunks-looking guy from DQ8.

That's what I thought, too. His name is Angelo. And yes, he does totally look like Trunks, if Trunks were a foppish womanizing card-cheat. 

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1 hour ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I'm thinking that Eleven's second color is the same as the Trunks-looking guy from DQ8.

Maybe. The red clothing and the white hair is similar to Angelo, yeah, and reminded me of him.

21 minutes ago, Solly said:

That looks pretty close, although I was thinking he's based on Terry from DQVI. 

dq6_terry3.jpg

I agree, they really knocked Hero's costumes out of the park. Not only are they great references, they're all very varied and visually striking. And as a fan of the series it's nice to see people having positive reactions online.

Oh, I can kind of see that with the similar outfits actually. Even the eye colors appear to match now that I see the higher res version and the outfit colors appear to match in the same places.

I'm currently operating under the assumption they're all based on other player characters (Erdrick's alt appearing to be DQV's hero's colors and checking the others in the FS was my starting point) but I could see them referencing other party characters if the heroes' appearances matched enough with others. Makes me want to try to get back into these games at some point.

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Hero's Classic will easily be about facing all the RPG characters (If that wasn't covered already). Expect Cloud, Ness and Lucas, the FE gang, the Paper Mario stage and maybe a few references to throwaway RPG spinoffs like Sonic Chronicles. The boss is Rathelos as seen in the trailer, and there will also be fights with Bowser, Charizard and Ridely. It's Dragon Quest y'know.

Banjo of course has got to have a Kong reunion of course, maybe a Duck Hunt fight. Maybe the rest of the battles can all be platformer mascot themed. There's gotta be a "Grunty" battle at the end, who's played Robin, or maybe Bayonetta (Influnced by her young chick form from the Game Over sequence). Another Master Hand fight would be fine as it can act as Banjo "proving himself" worthy as a Microsoft rep to be immortalized with the rest of the Smash fighters and what not.

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Yeah I thought sakurai said awhile back he was not happening. Especially after fans began sending him fucking threats and anger over the character. Don’t vindicate their attitudes 

Undertale tho would be interesting, though if Shovel Knight of all people, the indie mascot, only got Assist Trophy status, I can’t see Frisk. And honestly, these two would be pretty underwhelming as final picks. Well, mostly Waluigi

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