Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DADDY SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE HAS CONCLUDED

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

There's no time they could have put Byleth where you guys suddenly would have been okay with him being in the game long term

Nah mate. Backlash wouldn't have been nearly as big if he were say, the first fighter of the second pass that wasn't hyped for bringing in new worlds and franchises like the first one was.

Or heck, put him in the middle of the pass, not at the dead end of it.

5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Just say you don't care about Fire Emblem and move the fuck on.

As someone who actually likes Fire Emblem and owns copies of Awakening and Three Houses, no I will not.

Though I will say: OBJECTION, given the contradiction at hand. 

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

Nah mate. Backlash wouldn't have been nearly as big if he were say, the first fighter of the second pass that wasn't hyped for bringing in new worlds abs franchises like the first one was.

The backlash has been absurd for a couple of days every single time they reveal a Smash bros character that doesn't look like a cereal mascot. This has been going on since Smash 4, no matter when or where the character is revealed. 

There is nothing to nitpick here. People just see something they don't care about and decide to have a shitty attitude about it instead of picking up one of the other 80 characters that suit their interests.

[Tornado]

20 minutes ago, Wraith said:

They knew it would be divisive but they also know they made a lot of money off of 3 Houses and the last couple of fire emblem characters they released as DLC so, unsurprisingly, fans whining online for a week was considered worth taking the hit for the long run.

 

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

 There's no time they could have put Byleth where you guys suddenly would have been okay with him being in the game long term, so there's no point in nitpicking. Just say you don't care about Fire Emblem and move the fuck on. Damn.

 

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The backlash has been absurd for a couple of days every single time they reveal a Smash bros character that doesn't look like a cereal mascot. This has been going on since Smash 4, no matter when or where the character is revealed. 

There is nothing to nitpick here. People just see something they don't care about and decide to have a shitty attitude about it instead of picking up one of the other 80 characters that suit their interests.

Yeah, the actual alternative is you can take a break from this thread instead of this tone policing shit you're trying to pull at everyone else. You want to blow everyone off and talk shit about people taking issue with it, go do it on Twitter or something.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The backlash has been absurd for a couple of days every single time they reveal a Smash bros character that doesn't look like a cereal mascot.

You're missing the Forest for the trees here on this one.

Pretty much no one was expecting Fire Emblem, given the pattern and contents of the Fighter Pass preceding Byleth.

And unlike a case like say, Banjo-Kazooie, him beating the odds didn't particularly provide joy, for obvious reasons.

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the massive backlash is literally just because it's not the character people wanted, especially given how this one's backlash is far more notable.

I stay by the stance that Byleth was horribly timed release wise and would've been better received at a different point in time.

Nintendo, did not read the crowd well on this one.

[Wraith]

14 minutes ago, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

You're missing the Forest for the trees here on this one.

Pretty much no one was expecting Fire Emblem, given the pattern and contents of the Fighter Pass preceding Byleth.

And unlike a case like say, Banjo-Kazooie, him beating the odds didn't particularly provide joy, for obvious reasons.

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the massive backlash is literally just because it's not the character people wanted, especially given how this one's backlash is far more notable.

I stay by the stance that Byleth was horribly timed release wise and would've been better received at a different point in time.

Nintendo, did not read the crowd well on this one.

No, I just remember how the last couple of hype cycles for these games have gone. I remember when people swore one of the most critically acclaimed action games of the last decade getting into Smash was because of a rigged ballot. There are definitely just some archetypes the Smash fandom isn't excited about for reasons that IMO are shallow.

There are just some characters that don't gel with the online Smash fandom no matter how popular they are outside of it and Fire Emblem is probably the biggest example.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

30 minutes ago, Wraith said:

No, I just remember how the last couple of hype cycles for these games have gone. I remember when people swore one of the most critically acclaimed action games of the last decade getting into Smash was because of a rigged ballot. There are definitely just some archetypes the Smash fandom isn't excited about for reasons that IMO are shallow.

There are just some characters that don't gel with the online Smash fandom no matter how popular they are outside of it and Fire Emblem is probably the biggest example.

Eh, not for nothing, but it kinda comes off as condescending and tone policing if you're running off the idea that Smash fans just blatantly dislike it when Fire Emblem gets a character, without even taking into mind the actual reasons.

You're not really making a good argument if you just keep running off of that assumption. I mean, c'mon, let's not pretend like the backlash couldn't have been mitigated if this reveal cycle had at least been better planned out. 

Especially given how a lot of fans have pointed out that even as FE fans they're disappointed with this reveal.

[Wraith]

6 minutes ago, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

Eh, not for nothing, but it kinda comes off as condescending and tone policing if you're running off the idea that Smash fans just blatantly dislike it when Fire Emblem gets a character, without even taking into mind the actual reasons.

You're really making a good argument if you just keep running off of that assumption. I mean, c'mon, let's not pretend like the backlash couldn't have been mitigated if this reveal cycle had at least been better planned out. 

Especially given how a lot of fans have pointed out that even as FE fans they're disappointed with this reveal.

I find most Smash discussion online to he obnoxious so that's where the bite comes from. I will concede to to the tone of my previous posts being unnecesary and hurtful though so I apologize for that 

I genuinely believe that the only way to avoid this would have been to not pick Byleth at any point, but that was never going to happen realistically.

[PublicEnemy1]

After giving it some thought, I don't mind Byleth's inclusion in Smash, despite me not being interested in Fire Emblem.

However, I think that Byleth and Banjo should've switched places, that way it could've ended a lot better, IMO.
But, overall, I really liked this Fighter's Pass, and I'll probably buy Fighter's Pass Vol 2 when it comes out.

[Sean]

I'm pretty disappointed because of how blatantly transparent the Fire Emblem characters have been as advertisements for the latest games (they never even pick someone who isn't a protagonist or from one of the pre-Awakening games). It's whatever though, it doesn't ruin the entire fighter pass for me and it doesn't kill my interest in future DLC characters. This pass has been a 3/5 for me, with Joker being the other character I didn't really care for due to not being an iconic pick either, so it hasn't been a bad haul overall.

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Eh, if I can deal with people complaining about Incineroar being picked over Decidueye, FE fans can weather Sakurai picking Dimitri.

You mean Edelgard...

 

And Decidueye was already in Pokken.

2 hours ago, Sean said:

I'm pretty disappointed because of how blatantly transparent the Fire Emblem characters have been as advertisements for the latest games (they never even pick someone who isn't a protagonist or from one of the pre-Awakening games). It's whatever though, it doesn't ruin the entire fighter pass for me and it doesn't kill my interest in future DLC characters. This pass has been a 3/5 for me, with Joker being the other character I didn't really care for due to not being an iconic pick either, so it hasn't been a bad haul overall.

Let's be fair, its the same for Pokemon; Mewtwo, and Pichu came out around the first movie and Gold and Silver, Lucario came in 2008 with Brawl during Generation 4, and Greninja came during Generation 6, and Incineroar with Generation 7. I don't think its fair to give FE this designation when others have it too. 

[Sean]

Pokémon, one of the two other series in Smash that people complain about having too many characters, and unlike Fire Emblem doesn't have a central protagonist that it uses every time it needs to rep the latest game, and unlike Fire Emblem actually goes for characters that are popular among fans.

 

 

Can I please just have an opinion about this stupid video game without someone trying to throw a whataboutism in my face over it?

[Wraith]

Joker and Terry are the characters that are games I actually enjoyed. Persona 5 was just alright though so I was more excited about the soundtrack being in Smash than anything else. Banjo Kazooie and Dragon Quest bounced right off me. I like Fire Emblem and heard good things about Three Houses but I've yet to get around to it. Maybe I'll appreciate this inclusion more when I do, but it probably wont be any time soon anyway.

 

Overall the pass was just okay. I didn't like every mechanical addition but at least they tried to make every single fighter feel unique. Half of Smash 4 DLC just felt like covering their bases on who was missing and characters like Ryu and Bayonetta felt a little clunky in their implementation. 

My request for the next one now that the characters are more spread out is that they dig deeper into each character's history and get weirder. Joker felt kind of uninspired for how much you could have done with all of Persona's attack options.

[Kuzu]

33 minutes ago, Sean said:

Pokémon, one of the two other series in Smash that people complain about having too many characters, and unlike Fire Emblem doesn't have a central protagonist that it uses every time it needs to rep the latest game, and unlike Fire Emblem actually goes for characters that are popular among fans.

 

 

Can I please just have an opinion about this stupid video game without someone trying to throw a whataboutism in my face over it?

I didn't say you were wrong for feeling that way, just making a point. I largely agree that even if I'm fine with Byleth, I understand why people are disappointed if you were expecting someone else. 

[Sean]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I didn't say you were wrong for feeling that way, just making a point. I largely agree that even if I'm fine with Byleth, I understand why people are disappointed if you were expecting someone else. 

I disagree with the equivalency, but I didn't mean to get hot-headed over your initial response, so sorry about that.

[Perkilator]

10 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I didn't say you were wrong for feeling that way, just making a point. I largely agree that even if I'm fine with Byleth, I understand why people are disappointed if you were expecting someone else. 

Agreed. I’m happy TH is getting anything, much less a fighter, but I’m a tad disappointed that this was the finale to the first Fighter’s Pass.

[Red Hot Jack]

Exactly, everybody and their grandma knew Three Houses was getting a fighter… especially since Fire Emblem only got an echo fighter in the base game, just… I would have done it in Fighter Pass 2, it would have made more sense if this was a Pass destined to 3rd parties, and then the second pass would have had mostly Nintendo characters. Or at least earlier in this Pass, I mean, as a final character it's pretty disappointing I agree, it's bad timing, and anticlimactic in general. I would say now it's a good guess to expect a balanced roster of first party characters and 3rd parties in FP2.

[Plasme]

I'm a casual Smash fan, don't play it often, and I also don't like the Fire Emblem rep, DLC but only because they all look very similar visually and *most* of them play very similar. But mostly it's that they all look so similar, I mean seriously.

Now with Pokemon, I agree that they add reps to tie into new games. I remember people complaining about Greninja and inceneroar for that reason, but at least they all look very different and play vastly differently. I have no interest in Pokemon outside of the original Red and Blue, but I can still appreciate a Pokemon rep's design.

I think it's the same reason no one takes issue with the Mario reps. There's a clear difference between Mario and Bowser or Peach and Luigi.

That's my line of thinking. I don't really have wish lists and even liked the look of Terry, who I know nothing about. But with this FE guy, he just looks like another FE guy. I understand it might be different if you are a fan of the games, but I'vw never played them.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

5 hours ago, Plasme said:

But with this FE guy, he just looks like another FE guy. I understand it might be different if you are a fan of the games, but I'vw never played them.

Do you have a 3DS? There's a demo for Fire Emblem Awakening if you'd like to give it a shot. I actually thought I'd dislike it back when I heard about the type of gameplay it had, but it ended up being one of my favorite games.

On the subject of Byleth themselves, their moveset is very similar to what I had in mind for them, although initially I'd hoped that if they used a bunch of different weapons then the three Lords could be alts for them. The Sword of the Creator being Byleth Only kinda made that impossible though. I was sorta hoping they'd include gauntlets as the pummel but otherwise the moveset is to my liking. The down special being a slightly weaker Hatchet Man is my favorite, hehe.

[Fire-N-Space]

Why pick Byleth and not Jak from Jack & Daxter 2 or anyone else.  

[Tracker_TD]

3 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Why pick Byleth and not Jak from Jack & Daxter 2 or anyone else.  

I don't really see what Nintendo would get out of putting in a Sony character. At least with Banjo & Kazooie, they were darlings of the N64 era, and Microsoft's put a few things they own on Switch, such as Ori, so you can argue it's mutually beneficial (especially PR-wise). Not that it's impossible, but it makes a lot more sense for Ninty to have put in the main protagonist of a massively successful game of their own than a company who's main tie to them is a major fallout that resulted in one of their largest competitors.

[Wraith]

There will be a Sony character in Smash eventually if only for the clout but it probably wouldn't be Jak.

[Fire-N-Space]

4 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

I don't really see what Nintendo would get out of putting in a Sony character. At least with Banjo & Kazooie, they were darlings of the N64 era, and Microsoft's put a few things they own on Switch, such as Ori, so you can argue it's mutually beneficial (especially PR-wise). Not that it's impossible, but it makes a lot more sense for Ninty to have put in the main protagonist of a massively successful game of their own. 

Isn't Cloud and Snake Sony characters? 

 

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

There will be a Sony character in Smash eventually if only for the clout but it probably wouldn't be Jak.

Jak feels like he fits smash the most out of Sony's cast.

[Tracker_TD]

7 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Isn't Cloud and Snake Sony characters? 

No, they're Square Enix and Konami characters respectively. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

7 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Isn't Cloud and Snake Sony characters? 

No, Snake is owned by Konami, and Cloud is owned by Square-Enix. They're associated with the brand due to their original games coming out on PlayStation consoles, but they aren't owned by them.

7 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Jak feels like he fits smash the most out of Sony's cast.

 That's debatable, I'd say Ratchet fits more into the Smash style, and is more relevant/popular in terms of Sony IPs, and I'm a huge Jak fan.

[Soniman]

I think we're more likely yo see Kratos than Jak because modern gamers actually know who that is