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Sonictrainer

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - PLEASE SPOILER TAG LEAKS

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I think speculation is all very well, but it's the certainty that's the problem, the unjustified, faith-driven certainty.  It's partly that people don't like surprises, partly that they do like to feel in the know; partly that it drives clicks and ultimately makes profit for shameless YouTubers trading on the gullible public.  But it's also a problem that many people are completely unable to differentiate what is likely to happen from what they want to happen.  That's exactly what most theories are, really; they don't actually have anything to do with real evidence, they're simply a statement of desire, and because they are statements of desire then people get emotionally invested in them - to their cost.  You've probably all heard of the psychological studies indicating that, if you show a person evidence which disproves a belief they hold, it actually strengthens that belief, right?  That's what we get with some of the Smash rage; people who are absolutely convinced that Character X is coming along next, only for it to be Character Y, feel as if only some deep injustice can explain this error - rather than their own cognitive biases being to blame.  It is very much a cult in miniature, with prophets and laws.

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The funny thing is to many of these extreme cult level Smash speculation scenes that will follow these rumors and leaks, is that the moment one of those leakers gains legit credibility, the community typically turns on them and berates them for spoiling the surprises, and demands they stop. 

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5 hours ago, Angyu said:

Also, you say Pichu seems odd, but then we have Dark Pit and Dark Samus...

I was saying Pichu is odd specifically because, like Roy, they're a character who is not that important in the grand context of the franchise they come from, but was important at the time because they represented the latest release from that franchise.

Essentially, I consider Pichu and Roy to be examples of unusual Smash Bros content that, if a new Smash game came out now, would be really bizarre new additions to represent those franchises when there are more popular/requested characters from older/newer games in the franchises. Their inclusion in this big special Smash game is an artifact of their source games being lucky enough to be the latest in their franchise at the time of Melee.  In the long-run, those games would become just "another game" from those franchises, nothing special.  If they hadn't been in Smash before, I don't think there'd be any chance of them being added as a newcomer now.

This sort of thing applies to other content too.  Gamer and Windy Hill are really unfortunate choices to cover 50% of the Wario and Sonic franchises' location representation in the "Ultimate" version of Smash Bros, because the games they come from ended up being such mundane releases in the history of their franchises.  At the time Smash for Wii U came out though, they were very relevant.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't have been included in Ultimate, I'm just saying that if you treated Smash Ultimate as the only Smash Bros game, there is a bunch of content in there that feels like really odd choices to represent the franchise that are only in the game due to the timeframe in which previous Smash Bros' games came out.

This isn't really a problem, I wouldn't suggest omitting this content and it's not like cutting it would have made room for an equal amount of new content.  It's just... I dunno, a little messy and a shame that there are some points in a franchise's history that get more attention than they're worthy of in Smash (like Sonic nostalgia wanking on Green Hill Zone for Sonic Lost World's opening stage or that weird little Warioware spin-off game on Wii U) over things that go severely underrepresented (Sonic's equally iconic city/casino levels or the entire Wario Land franchise).

 

I wouldn't say Dark Pit and Dark Samus are examples of the above though.  Dark Pit IS a major character in Kid Icarus Uprising, and if he wasn't included in Wii U/3DS as a bonus already, he'd have been worthy of being an echo newcomer in Ultimate's base game still.  Dark Samus is not only an equally important character in their franchise but was widely requested too.

Now granted I might be wrong about Roy because I don't really know the reception of all the various individual Fire Emblem games - I would've figured the GBA ones are old hat now but maybe they're beloved as stand-out must-play classics.  On that same logic, maybe the GameCube/Wii games are also slipping from relevance and Ike would be an unusual choice to include now if he hadn't been in Brawl.  This line of discussion/thought sort of becomes a snake eating it's own tail when we then remember that the entire Fire Emblem franchise's trajectory was changed BECAUSE of Marth and Roy being in Smash.  I can't even say that having three characters from Awakening makes sense because it was such a popular FE game when Smash Bros might be the cause of that too!

 

Anyway I went cross-eyed towards the end there, to summarise again, I was saying Pichu is an example of Smash content that did not stay relevant enough to feel Smash worthy now, even though it did at the time it was added.

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Roy isn't considered very remarkable in the context of Fire Emblem so youre actually right with your break down there. Ike is one of the most popular lords in the series and probably would have been in smash eventually even if it wasn't in Brawl. Leif, Edelgard and Lyn are more popular characters than Roy but ironically it doesn't make a ton of sense to add more swordsmen now because of him. 

Roy is considered remarkable in the context of Smash Bros because Sakurai fudged his characterization to make him contrast Marth more and his voice actor delivered an extremely memorable performance. Seperated completely from the context of gaming history or any arguments about representation, Roy was a hothead who's blade could catch fire and explode. They turned one of the more milquetoast lords into a winner. You came for the characters you recognized, but surprises like Roy were the real gem. Sakurai admits that his take on Roy wasn't completely accurate but they kept it up because this version of Roy had a lot fans. Fan who had maybe never even played a proper FE game before, but fans with money to spend on DLC regardless.

Fire Emblem Awakening featured so many Marth analogues partially because of Smash Bros, but then they became fan favorites and Smash Bros ended up having to include them anyway. I don't mind it since Chrom and Lucina are personal favorites of mine. I would probably be angrier if they cut Lucina than if they did any of the more unique characters after, lol. 

 

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Eu_yeVFXMAQBUn3?format=jpg&name=large

Quote

Tune-in on 3/4 at 6am PT for an in-depth look at the new Super #SmashBrosUltimate DLC fighter, Pyra/Mythra, with Director Masahiro Sakurai. He will also reveal the fighter’s release date!

The presentation will be roughly 35 minutes long, and there will be no further new fighter announcements.

 

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What’re your guys thoughts on the “concert leak” going around atm, potentially revealing the last two characters 

 

Crash and Monster Hunter

 

Personally I’m skeptical 

 

Gonna wait until at least the next fighter is revealed before I give it much weight, as the leak seems to be going in order, so that implies Crash WILL be the next reveal.  If the MH Mii’s don’t return with Pyra/Mythra, and there’s no spirit event for Rise, I think that’ll also be something that maybe gives it more weight 

 

As for my feelings on these two possibly being the final two...love the idea of getting Crash in, but out of ALL the Capcom characters, MH was the one I was least enthusiastic about getting a playable rep(not that it means I’d hate them getting in, just the one I personally wouldn’t feel one way or the other about). But it makes sense, if Fighter Pass 2 is primarily about getting things that almost got in via base or pass 1. But yeah, that kinda shocks me that RE out of all the Capcom franchises, the one that’s their biggest franchise, that branches out to blockbuster multi-film territory, only got a few spirits that don’t even represent well RE. Lol. But again, this is all under the assumption the leak is accurate, which I’m not convinced it is yet, especially when so many of these popular leaks end up being fakes. (Grinch, caco mallow, etc)

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Spoiler

Both of those characters have been referenced as being in the works in other rumors for a while now. Not like, Smash fan rumors, but Journalists and industry types saying Monster Hunter was intended to be in some time ago but some negotiation fell through or something like that, so they took the work they did on them and made them into Byleth. The Crash stuff matches up with the leaked "5 Year plan" stuff from activision as well.  Neither would be super exciting to me but I'm used to that. I mostly play Japanese action/fighting games at this point and none of that stuff is mainstream enough to get into Smash nor is it mascot-platformy enough to get nintendo fans to make noise about it's absence.

Eager to see how they play in any case. 

 

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yeah it’s specifically because of that stuff, that I’m keeping my eye on this. There’s a lot of things this lines up with, (5 year plan, insider information about MH, fighter pass 2 feeling like it’s being used to add things that almost got into base, etc) and the idea of a concert after everything’s out seems fairly realistic compared to the standard “uncle works at nintendo” type shit, and a list of songs being out and leaked at this point seems plausible, so it’s harder to hand wave it away. The ONLY reserves I have at this point is the developers stating once they don’t like the Hunter being represented in crossovers, only the monsters, and if the Mii costume returns with Pyra/Mythra

 

I just hope if Monster Hunter is indeed the final rep, it’s different enough from Byleth. Maybe different alts can be the different classes so it could be like a 4 in one character, each with one different alt color.

 

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Both Crash and Monster Hunter would be some welcome additions so I hope certainly this turns out to be true. Never played Monster Hunter myself, but there have so been so many Nintendo exclusive titles that I think it's a worthwhile addition. I'll happily take that over a brand new Pokemon or something which is what I expected. I usually take leaks with a grain of salt though, so I'm not going to get too excited even if it did have a 99% chance of being true. As for Crash, he's from my favorite series, so I'd be super excited to see him represented in Smash. I just hope we don't only get Naughty Dog material for him, as I really hope we get some remixes from Twinsanity and Wrath of Cortex in there too if he does actually join the battle. 

 

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34 minutes ago, KHCast said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Gonna wait until at least the next fighter is revealed before I give it much weight, as the leak seems to be going in order, so that implies Crash WILL be the next reveal.  If the MH Mii’s don’t return with Pyra/Mythra, and there’s no spirit event for Rise, I think that’ll also be something that maybe gives it more weight 

 

As for my feelings on these two possibly being the final two...love the idea of getting Crash in, but out of ALL the Capcom characters, MH was the one I was least enthusiastic about getting a playable rep(not that it means I’d hate them getting in, just the one I personally wouldn’t feel one way or the other about). But it makes sense, if Fighter Pass 2 is primarily about getting things that almost got in via base or pass 1. But yeah, that kinda shocks me that RE out of all the Capcom franchises, the one that’s their biggest franchise, that branches out to blockbuster multi-film territory, only got a few spirits that don’t even represent well RE. Lol. But again, this is all under the assumption the leak is accurate, which I’m not convinced it is yet, especially when so many of these popular leaks end up being fakes. (Grinch, caco mallow, etc)

Was Cacomallow ever confirmed fake?

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1 minute ago, Angyu said:

Was Cacomallow ever confirmed fake?

it’s a safe bet seeing as how 

 

1. Geno Mii didn’t come with Mallow, would be strange to separate the two

and

2. we’ve recently had more modded Mii’s proving it can be faked, like the Master Chief Mii costume, and I believe there was a modded hat that moved similar to the mallow one posted.

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2 hours ago, KHCast said:

What’re your guys thoughts on the “concert leak” going around atm, potentially revealing the last two characters 

  Reveal hidden contents

Crash and Monster Hunter

 

Personally I’m skeptical 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gonna wait until at least the next fighter is revealed before I give it much weight, as the leak seems to be going in order, so that implies Crash WILL be the next reveal.  If the MH Mii’s don’t return with Pyra/Mythra, and there’s no spirit event for Rise, I think that’ll also be something that maybe gives it more weight 

 

As for my feelings on these two possibly being the final two...love the idea of getting Crash in, but out of ALL the Capcom characters, MH was the one I was least enthusiastic about getting a playable rep(not that it means I’d hate them getting in, just the one I personally wouldn’t feel one way or the other about). But it makes sense, if Fighter Pass 2 is primarily about getting things that almost got in via base or pass 1. But yeah, that kinda shocks me that RE out of all the Capcom franchises, the one that’s their biggest franchise, that branches out to blockbuster multi-film territory, only got a few spirits that don’t even represent well RE. Lol. But again, this is all under the assumption the leak is accurate, which I’m not convinced it is yet, especially when so many of these popular leaks end up being fakes. (Grinch, caco mallow, etc)

I think it's fake

Spoiler

because it'd have to be a miracle to get Sugiyama to allow music for a concert he has no direct involvement in.

 

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It's been also pointing out that 

Spoiler

despite there being a song for each fighter and echo, the spot where Ken should be is nowhere to be seen. And because I've not gone to concerts often, is it normal for a concert to have a whopping 92 music songs and still run 3 hours, if not 3 and a half?

As for the prospect of a concert itself, I'd be down for a successor to Smashing Live, but I have my nitpicks for song choices-

Spoiler

Why pick the short Menu theme from 64 (I assume the character select) over the credits, the series' unofficial theme? Why no Mute City? Most franchise main themes that were covered in Smashing Live aren't here either, but Mute City's not one of theme. Of all the songs to Ness, why Fourside over Pollyanna or Smiles and Tears?  Why the Kirby Boss Medley over Dedede's theme? And not having Green Hill's understandable, it's odd if they'd pick Open Your Heart over Live and Learn, Sonic's original reveal theme. I also get that'd might cheap out and reuse a few songs, but I rather they take new songs that to get the concert treatment (Chill over Fever for Dr. Mario, Area 6 over Star Fox Medley, Flat Zone 2 over 1, etc)

Most personally, while another "Original Medley" is fine, the way they had a "Great Smash Medley" that goes from franchise to franchise felt the perfect penultimate piece even when it technically wasn't.

Any official concert dedicated to celebrating game music beyond the mainstream would be killer in my book. I just don't buy the rumor itself.

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1 hour ago, Supah Berry said:

It's been also pointing out that 

  Hide contents

despite there being a song for each fighter and echo, the spot where Ken should be is nowhere to be seen. And because I've not gone to concerts often, is it normal for a concert to have a whopping 92 music songs and still run 3 hours, if not 3 and a half?

As for the prospect of a concert itself, I'd be down for a successor to Smashing Live, but I have my nitpicks for song choices-

  Reveal hidden contents

Why pick the short Menu theme from 64 (I assume the character select) over the credits, the series' unofficial theme? Why no Mute City? Most franchise main themes that were covered in Smashing Live aren't here either, but Mute City's not one of theme. Of all the songs to Ness, why Fourside over Pollyanna or Smiles and Tears?  Why the Kirby Boss Medley over Dedede's theme? And not having Green Hill's understandable, it's odd if they'd pick Open Your Heart over Live and Learn, Sonic's original reveal theme. I also get that'd might cheap out and reuse a few songs, but I rather they take new songs that to get the concert treatment (Chill over Fever for Dr. Mario, Area 6 over Star Fox Medley, Flat Zone 2 over 1, etc)

Most personally, while another "Original Medley" is fine, the way they had a "Great Smash Medley" that goes from franchise to franchise felt the perfect penultimate piece even when it technically wasn't.

Any official concert dedicated to celebrating game music beyond the mainstream would be killer in my book. I just don't buy the rumor itself.

 

concert compilations like this don’t dedicate full length songs. They’d likely be under a minute or something and seamlessly translate to the next song. Sorta like how the Philharmonic orchestra does their mashups of different songs. Or probably more notably, the Kingdom Hearts orchestra does its mashups. So a compilation of songs from Mario - Monster Hunter isn’t that far fetched, and likely could be under 3 hours easily

 

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2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

So guessing no Capcom character is gonna be in this pass huh?

Wah? No. There is nothing suggesting that. These mii costumes were added for their respective time of advertisement.

If someone like say, Phoenix Wright were to get in, he could easily bring with him, other Capcom characters or Ace Attprney characters as costumes. And there's nothing saying he HAS to come with just Capcom characters.

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Guess it’s just strange that out of all the 3rd parties from smash 4 that got DLC, Capcom has been the one so far in both passes for ultimate to have no rep and have their Mii outfits dispersed among other characters. I figured some of their stuff would return with a character of their own, like what happens with Square Enix 

 

its definitely not impossible mind you,I wanna be wrong here cause I want Dante or a RE rep, but it gives me some mega doubts tbh. 
 

anyway, I’m hyped for Pyra/Mythra. Given how I tend to use fast characters, I’ll probably go Mythra most times 

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