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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - PLEASE SPOILER TAG LEAKS

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7 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Megumin Academy said:

Ugh, Unnecessary buzzword much?

I’m not really saying millennial as itself is negative though? Especially when I’m calling myself one? Unless your assumption is the automatic use of the word is = buzzword. I’m simply saying his youth is showing extremely with his comment. It’s also not unnecessary when he IS one? 

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5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Megumin Academy said:

A lot of people treat it as such. 

As a "millennial" myself,  I really don't care for the connotations often associated with the term. 

Oh I definitely agree the term is overused and used in bad taste by a lot of people that have issues with progressives. But I’m simply in this context am using it to say his comment really came off to me like the stereotype “young person that doesn’t care or know much about about old people stuff” lol. I do see why the term at this point though can easily make people roll their eyes 

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2 hours ago, KHCast said:

I’m still hoping for a potential cgi trailer that has cloud in it, as that’d look SOOOO good

Also just watched Etika’s video on the reveal and...I mean he really shows his youth and millennialness and this is coming from a youth/millennial lol. “I guess they put simon in as some like classic throwback pick for the old guys at like review tech or something?” paraphrasing, but like, idk, seems a bit kinda rude how he words it.

Eh, it's Etika. Sometimes I think he puts things a certain way just to ruffle people's feathers. I think he's aware enough without necessarily meaning anything by it, but that's the impression I've gotten from following him for a couple years.

For what it's worth, I have no attachment to Castlevania/Simon/Richter, so their inclusion doesn't mean anything to me personally and I can get where Etika comes from even if he's trying to be edgy to piss off his audience, but at the same time, their trailer is so cool I get excited enough to want to learn about them. That's the cool thing about Smash.

5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Megumin Academy said:

A lot of people treat it as such. 

As a "millennial" myself,  I really don't care for the connotations often associated with the term. 

In the context of his post, I don't think that's what KH means though. Let's not drag this thread down over this, please.

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I gotta wonder how many echoes compared to newcomers are left. We’ve gotten quite a few echoes already. And they are easier to incorporate. There’s just a lot of potential now because of the bigger focus on clone characters this time around 

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1 hour ago, KHCast said:

I gotta wonder how many echoes compared to newcomers are left. We’ve gotten quite a few echoes already. And they are easier to incorporate. There’s just a lot of potential now because of the bigger focus on clone characters this time around 

Funny enough, every 3rd party could get "echo". Shadow, Protoman/Bass/MegamanX, Miss Pac, Ken,Zack Fair, etc. Even Belmonts could add Trevor if they really wanted. (I would only care for Shadow and Megaman representat though).

From NIntendo side... they could finally throw a bone to F-Zero with Black Shadow or Blood Falcon. I heard Octolings are popular in Splatoon and that might be tricky, but maybe Dixie and Cranky could be echos to respective Kongs.

It's harder to guess full-newcomers, especially with  so many favorites stuck as Assists (I was sure Midna will get in this year. What Zelda will add now to roster, Tingle?). Metroid run out of characters, so did Star Fox and I think (hope) Fire Emblem. Mario seems unlikely, so does Kid Icarus, Pikmin or Animal Crossing, and let's not even talk about new IPs (I'm still hoping for Andy from Advance Wars).

So what's left for Nintendo? Probably throw more Pokemons and 3rd part, that always works. But even latter is going dry. Only loud demands I can think of are Banjo, Sora, Rayman and Shantae. And Goku.

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13 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

What Zelda will add now to roster, Tingle

Quote

 

Hmmm now that I think about it, we haven’t seen Skull Kid assist have we? And he was there in 4. It’s just the Moon this time around....now I’m legit curious. It would make sense to add another Zelda character seeing as how we haven’t received a newcomer from that franchise since Brawl if we don’t count the redesigns and young links return. 

this makes even more sense with Young Link returning as I’m assuming this is MM Young Link. And with there being a pretty accurate leak that has him as a character that will be playable, AND the focus on villains lately...

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I can't see Skull Kid being playable (or even if he's playable i can only think he's not gonna be overwhelming as the other newcomers) solely because his obvious choice for a final smash (dropping the Moon) is relegated as a separate assist. Yes, he had a different move as well when he himself was an assist in Sm4sh, but that wasn't really what Skull Kid was about. I dunno.
Do we know if Ghirahim is back as an assist as well? Other than him i can only think of Impa or Vaati as the next Zelda rep/s, maybe Demise as a Ganondorf echo.

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59 minutes ago, Teoskaven said:

I can't see Skull Kid being playable (or even if he's playable i can only think he's not gonna be overwhelming as the other newcomers) solely because his obvious choice for a final smash (dropping the Moon) is relegated as a separate assist. Yes, he had a different move as well when he himself was an assist in Sm4sh, but that wasn't really what Skull Kid was about. I dunno.
Do we know if Ghirahim is back as an assist as well? Other than him i can only think of Impa or Vaati as the next Zelda rep/s, maybe Demise as a Ganondorf echo.

Skull kid iirc had a large fan following pre Smash U that were speculating and asking for him, definitely more than the other Zelda characters outside Groose. And as we’ve seen with K. Rool, Shovel Knight, Ridely and Chrom, they listen/take note. (He’s also a more unique and interesting villain as he’s not tied to demise in any way or another ganon/ganondorf imo)  And idk, skull kid can still I think have the moon as a final smash somehow despite it also being an assist I’m sure, or just have something different possibly? (Maybe the majoras mask goes into its ultimate form and ko’s opponents?) plus him being in Hyrule Warriors as a character means they have possible current material to use for a moveset as well. And again, his assist trophy is nowhere to be seen and this “rumor/leak” currently seems to have gotten everything right so far

I guess perhaps Zant if they wanna have a twilight princess rep? I can see him also possibly showing up, seeing as how they’ve diversified the Zelda cast like I predicted so more of those games are represented.

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9 hours ago, Jovahexeon Megumin Academy said:

Considering the likelihood that we still haven't seen all the stages yet,  maybe they're making new ones for each of those respectively instead of simply remastering them. 

That likelihood is very low, Sakurai's wording in the direct seemed VERY towards the idea that 103 is the TOTAL stage count.  If they reveal more now, it means they were being intentionally misleading before to surprise us (which I'd be fine with), but that's not normally their style.

Besides that, if the point is to include as many past favourite stages from previous games, making a new Mute City or Rainbow Road would be pointless when my issue is that I like the existing ones and want to play on them in Ultimate.

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On the topic of Cloud getting an Echo, Zack makes the most sense... But I personally would like Noctis more, just because I like him more as a character. He can wield giant swords in his own game at least.

But I'd be fine if they chose Zack, he's still cool too!

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2 hours ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

On the topic of Cloud getting an Echo, Zack makes the most sense... But I personally would like Noctis more, just because I like him more as a character. He can wield giant swords in his own game at least.

But I'd be fine if they chose Zack, he's still cool too!

Noctis is already in dissidia and Tekken, I can’t say, even as someone that likes him as a character, that I’d wanna see him here. There’s a lot more in the FF series to pull from if they don’t wanna just focus on 7 and 15. Squall could be an interesting choice. 

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55 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Noctis is already in dissidia and Tekken, I can’t say, even as someone that likes him as a character, that I’d wanna see him here. There’s a lot more in the FF series to pull from if they don’t wanna just focus on 7 and 15. Squall could be an interesting choice. 

Doesn't Squall use a one handed sword? That might be a problem, but he's pretty cool too.

...Despite me just saying that, Lightning would be cool even though she also uses a one handed sword, hehe

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So this had just popped into my head...you guys think Skyrim could mean possibly show up in some fashion, like a stage, boss, assist trophy, etc? With Skyrim switch and the hype that seemed to generate, along with its exclusive Nintendo content, I could honestly see something getting in.

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Entirely possible, though for a Bethesda rapresentation, i'd prefer Doom (even though the Nintendo history of the franchise is a bit stained, lol). I can see potential for either anyway.

Also responding to this: 

18 hours ago, Zaysho said:

It'd be kinda crazy if

  Reveal hidden contents

Malos was announced as Shulk's echo fighter due to him wielding a Monado with his power restored and sharing some of the same abilities. I'd still want Rex and Pyra as a duo to properly represent Xenoblade 2, but Malos as a Shulk echo would actually be pretty cool.

I mean, the game's not shy about casually throwing Mechon-Fiora into Shulk's final smash, what's another late-game spoiler?

I guess it just depends if they were considered in the planning stage, but they may not have. Xenoblade 2 likely started dev separately as X's dev was nearing its end in 2014 (the game dropped in April 2015 in Japan). If no one from that game is in the final roster, then I guess we'll see them in a DLC pack.

Knowing how Nintendo loves to spoil the shit out of the Xenoblade games, i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.

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Classic Ganon is still missing from Smash. Both Ganondorf's final smashes are either Twilight Ganon or Ocarina Ganon who are completely different design-wise from the classic and iconic blue pig with a golden trident.

So, while Skull Kid would be cool and all, and Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game, I still hope they will add Ganon first.

And if you ask me, I would take Tingle, Tetra and Vaati over Skull Kid too, I just can't think of any interesting moveset for him aside of giving a status to other players and crushing the moon.

-Tingle is so nonsense that you can give him any moveset you want and it fits him; he also has a couple of spin-off games to take inspiration from.

-Tetra is unique enough, and she would also work well as a Toon counterpart to Sheik (she would transform into Toon Zelda during the final smash).

-Vaati is an underrated villain who deserves more attention.

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While it is pretty obvious we're not getting every stage back I always have a nagging feeling that every stage from the series should be included for the sake of completion, it would be really nice to have a full collection of stages. OCD is a petty reason, but feels very powerful to me. Regardless, most of the remaining stages aren't that big of a deal to lose. Since every single stage works for 8 player Smash this time around Rumble Falls and Icicle Mountain would prove problematic for just being too hectic and frustrating for most players due to a lack of space, and I have a feeling Yoshi's Wooly World is being excluded for a similar reason as that stages transition into the second phase is also a vertical climb. 

Orbital Gate Assault may be excluded from the lineup but I feel that stage had too much work put into it for them to want to easily discard, so I think it's coming. 

Sector Z and Planet Zebes are probably made redundant by their Melee counterparts, but I do think there is a benefit in having them because both of them happen to be a lot larger than their successors which would make them better for 8 player Smash, but it's an understandable omission. Super Mario Bros 1's Melee stage is also made redundant aesthetically by its successor. But I like that stage, and honestly them being able to reuse assets from the first SMB1 stage makes me feel it is likely to come back. Same with Pictochat 1, and it'd also be pretty weird to have a stage labelled Pictochat 2 but have no 1. It's weird to me that they didn't just combine the two, but maybe they have plans.

Rainbow Road and Mute City would be tragic omissions, Mute City is a great stage and Rainbow Road is the most iconic thing from Mario Kart so these two aren't things that shouldn't be considered for the game. They are very similar conceptually and gameplay wise which might be a reason why they're both not present but I can't imagine why they wouldn't be.

Pac Maze is a weird one because it's the only stage in the 3ds version that has a gimmick that relies on all the players working on different screens. Pellets show up on each player's screen and they're supposed to grab enough to get a power pellet, so they would need to rebalance the stage if they were going to port it to one screen.

A lot of people say Pyrosphere is a problem because Ridley is now a playable character but that seems really stupid to me since it seems utterly impossible that a player would confuse the Ridley they are playing as and the stage hazard and if the logic of there being multiple Ridleys is a concern you've got to remember that it's a video game. It's a pretty large stage good for 8 players so I'd like it back.

and also there is nothing to say about Poke Floats other than its exclusion would be utterly tragic and I want it back

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6 minutes ago, Enderwoman said:

Orbital Gate Assault may be excluded from the lineup but I feel that stage had too much work put into it for them to want to easily discard, so I think it's coming. 

Oh god Orbital Gate Assault better be in Ultimate. 

Star Fox Assault needs more representation. 

Where's my Aparoids at Nintendo.

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So I decided to try and think up what potential character's general focuses would be out of some suggestions I've been hearing, in lieu of just dreaming up a whole bloody moveset like I usually do.
 

Spoiler

 

- Shadow could honestly just be a total Echo of Sonic with some animations and launch angles changed and that would probably be enough for a lot of people. If I had to further distinguish him and still remain in Echo territory, I'd integrate teleporting into some of his moves - recovery, obviously, but for sake of example you could also change his Dair around so that he teleports directly to the ground (or at least a set distance downward in lieu of that) and only has an active hitbox once he lands, Air Chaos Burst style. Would be kinda cool to see how Homing Attack would work as a teleport, too.

- Ken I could see working as a pseudo "easy mode" Ryu - standard specials are somewhat more effective than Ryu's unboosted ones, but can't be boosted with their respective traditional command inputs, effectively being a middle ground between the two. Likewise, his normals wouldn't have light/heavy distinctions, just defaulting to a selection of one or the other. Basically a character for people who like Ryu's motions but are turned off by the complexity of his moveset? Also, Shinryuken final smash. Obviously.

- I can see a Monster Hunter being kinda slow and janky based on what they're like in the games, and make up for it with heavy attacks and zoning setups. I mean hell, MonHun weapons are so fucking huge you could theoretically zone with melee attacks, so imagine what things could be like if you added barrel bombs, high angle arc shots with the Hunting Bow, and Palico assists on top of that. I wouldn't wanna be in the way of a Greatsword Fsmash, either.

- Skull Kid is kinda hard to envision because outside of Hyrule Warriors he's never fought directly, and his token final smash is an AT right now. But as far as MM is concerned, his main gimmick is that he's basically a prankster that takes things too far, so this makes me think of a character that's disruptive and annoying, focusing mainly on stacking debuffs on top of one another to gain the competitive edge. So basically, a character that starts overall weaker than most if not all of the cast, and gradually saps strength and knockback resistance away from everyone else through the course of a stock. All you have to do from there is add in a few particularly grating effects as special moves - temporarily inverting controls, stun moves, inflicting invisibility (yes, inflicting - what's worse than having distorted controls? Not knowing where you are while it's in effect =V), and so on.

- Dovahkin has a lot of material to work with. Honestly, if anything, too much to represent with one character. So instead of trying to boil down the entire mechanics of Skyrim, it might be better just to focus on what's unique to it in the scope of Elder Scrolls, in the image of the default Dovahkin - Iron-clad Nord with sword and shield, rocking dragon shouts on the side. Have him focus on trying to get enough space to let off a shout which has a lot of start-up time, but could change the tide of a fight when used in the right place. A pretty obvious, simple combination of specials would be Unrelenting Force (pretty much the signature shout and could be used for edgeguarding just like FLUDD, or just overall stage control), Elemental Fury (basically an overall buff to all of his normals), Fire Breath (damage/kill move) and Whirlwind Sprint (obligatory recovery move).

- Doomguy / Doom Slayer is... interesting. He has a ridiculous amount of weaponry, and yet - at least in recent years - he's been best known for simple, bare-handed brutality, so it's kinda hard to think of an appropriate middle ground between them. Best I can think of is simply to rip the glory kill mechanic out of Doom '16 verbatim. Have guns and stuff in his normals and specials wherever they're appropriate (I can definitely see a super shotgun Fsmash working out for him), then give him a command grab that only works on enemies above a certain damage threshhold (150%?). Obviously he's not gonna rip people's fucking spines out  - simple chokeslams and curb stomps and stuff like that are enough to get the point across.

- If Ninty are willing to reach around Konami to get Snake and two Belmonts, I still feel like there should be a place for Banjo in the roster. I just... haven't actually played any BK games so I wouldn't know how to make a moveset around it XD

- I actually, unironically want a playable Slippy Toad, if for no other reason than to round out the Starfox crew. Unlike the rest of the spacies, which are basically just three different ways to rushdown, I'd have him somewhat more laid back, have him combo through strategic use of gadgets instead. Have him drop his reflector as a landmine which he can bop enemies back and forth against like a bumper, make his illusion counterpart a temporary doppelganger that mimics his moves Luma style, hell, give him the slowest blaster of the spacies but actually make it a kill option for a change.

- Springman + obligatory Ribbon Girl echo would obviously have long range normals, but since their gameplay is so simple it's actually kinda hard to envision how to add depth to it beyond that. That's not to say it's impossible, not in the slightest - they made Little Mac work, after all. First idea is basically to have him as punchy Marth, but have all the sweet spots so far out that you need practially half a stage width to get access to most of Springman's kill options. Second idea is simply to have it function as a juggling mechanic, having moves that hit anywhere along its effective range and comboing people further and further back as long as they don't whiff.

 

Just to be clear I'm not expecting even half of these to make it XD. Just thought it might make interesting discussion.

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Monster Hunter also has a moveset already layed our in MvCI that Nintendo could deride from.

Sora, in terms of potential moveset could have a lot to pull from, ranging from his KH1 moveset ALL THE WAY to his KH3 one. I guess they’d go with probably either KH2 or 3 tbh, with his specials being his base magic moves like thunder, fire, ice, cure could possibly also maybe heal him by like 5% but leaves him open. Magnet could be a good move to use when in like a 8 player match or something, but just draws characters closer and doesn’t inflict damage. In terms of physical, probabky explosion or something if they’re basing it off 2. If it’s off 3, I can see keyblades transformations being a big thing of Sora’s, since he can now do that AND swap keyblades on the fly. 

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Now that I think about it, technically, Sakurai broke his rule that states "characters/things must originate from a video game to be in Smash" by adding one character... 

Dracula.

The Bram Stoker book is basically canon to the Castlevania franchise, (with Bloodlines having the son of Quincy Morris take on Dracula), making Dracula technically a literary character first.

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The concept of Dracula became public domain in 1962, meaning anyone can take inspiration from it without running foul of copyright and royalties. As such, any Dracula that derives from the original Dracula, is itself an original Dracula.

Same goes for the Dracula in Castlevania. It's an original character that takes inspiration from the original Dracula, but is still originally a video game character.

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