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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - PLEASE SPOILER TAG LEAKS

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9 minutes ago, G-Force said:

Here I was thinking I would be the only one willing to speak up for Dragon Quest, and now we're having a legitimate conversation about the possibility.  Warms my icy heart.

Personally, I don't really care that much about how significant DQ is to Nintendo because, well, that ship has already sailed with Cloud.  However, I would like to point out that Nintendo has actively helped publish some of the games outside of Japan.  They published IX, as well as the DS and 3DS versions of VI and VII, respectively.  The Wii and Wii U were also the first consoles to get X, though admittedly only in Japan.  And as has been said before, XI is on the 3DS in Japan, and is coming to the Switch.  There's some significance there.

When it comes to Sora, the main reason I'm kind of against him is because Kingdom Hearts is basically just an extension of Final Fantasy.  And I'd rather have someone from something that's not.

It really isn’t though...it’s quite literally its own franchise, hence why it isn’t called Final fantasy. It follows none of the FF lores, gameplay, etc. and simply takes characters from that franchise and incorporates them into its own setting. If it was an extension of FF, you’d probably see more interaction outside KH between the two. Seriously, Dragon Quest is more relatable at this point to FF in almost every regard. You may as well say “well donkey Kong is essentially Mario, and while funky and Dixie are cool, I’d rather we not have another Mario rep”

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1 hour ago, KHCast said:

It really isn’t though...it’s quite literally its own franchise, hence why it isn’t called Final fantasy. It follows none of the FF lores, gameplay, etc. and simply takes characters from that franchise and incorporates them into its own setting. If it was an extension of FF, you’d probably see more interaction outside KH between the two. Seriously, Dragon Quest is more relatable at this point to FF in almost every regard. You may as well say “well donkey Kong is essentially Mario, and while funky and Dixie are cool, I’d rather we not have another Mario rep”

I'm not saying the Kingdom Hearts literally is Final Fantasy, just that they're very closely related.  And I'd rather have something more separate. 

There's no way in Hell that Dragon Quest is closer to Final Fantasy than Kingdom Hearts is.

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5 minutes ago, G-Force said:

I'm not saying the Kingdom Hearts literally is Final Fantasy, just that they're very closely related.  And I'd rather have something more separate. 

There's no way in Hell that Dragon Quest is closer to Final Fantasy than Kingdom Hearts is.

Again I’ll point to my donkey Kong analogy. Those two are closely related, but separate franchises that do their own things. Same with Mario and yoshi. It’s really no different here. FF shares its characters sometimes with KH, that’s about it, and it’s not connected to the point it’s close enough to be considered a ff spinoff like WoFF or something. Sora would be a KH Rep, which is NOT whatsoever a FF Rep, and would not be considered a FF character. This seems like a issue you’re creating yourself. 

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38 minutes ago, G-Force said:

I'm not saying the Kingdom Hearts literally is Final Fantasy, just that they're very closely related

Heh! Not these days,  much to the chagrin of anyone who was pulled in by Kingdom Hearts' advertising of this series being "Final Fantasy  Meets Disney ".

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37 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Again I’ll point to my donkey Kong analogy. Those two are closely related, but separate franchises that do their own things. Same with Mario and yoshi. It’s really no different here. FF shares its characters sometimes with KH, that’s about it, and it’s not connected to the point it’s close enough to be considered a ff spinoff like WoFF or something. Sora would be a KH Rep, which is NOT whatsoever a FF Rep, and would not be considered a FF character. This seems like a issue you’re creating yourself. 

Well, if you're so committed to that analogy, the first problem is that I don't disagree with it.  Donkey Kong is a stand alone series, but it's also connected to Mario.  If someone came along and said "I don't want to see any more Mario or Mario related characters in Smash," I wouldn't argue against them, because there's nothing about that statement that's actually wrong.  I'd consider it fair.

Second problem, KH and FF are not nearly as separate as you're saying they are.  I mean, yeah, ok, they "just" share some characters a little, and also their entire spell system.  Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, Cure, Gravity, Aero, Stop, Flare, Holy, etc.  And a bunch of items.  Also, the FF characters tended to be more significant to the overall stories than the Disney characters, who are usually stuck in their own worlds.  Kingdom Hearts has a lot of the standard trappings that typically come along with Final Fantasy games.  Also, Tetsuya Nomura.  Long story short, Kingdom Hearts has Final Fantasy DNA, even if the FF characters are less significant than they used to be.

Third?  Context.  We're talking about Smash Bros, which is a mainly Nintendo thing.  Literally any third party character is gonna be harder to make happen than anyone Nintendo owns, so I'm inclined to think that the third party characters chosen should be as diverse as possible.  Megaman and Street Fighter are completely separate, as are Sonic and Bayonetta, and Metal Gear and Castlevania.  Kingdom Hearts is not completely separate from Final Fantasy.  Dragon Quest IS, therefore, I think Dragon Quest is the better choice.

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5 minutes ago, G-Force said:

Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, Cure, Gravity, Aero, Stop, Flare, Holy, etc.  And a bunch of items.  Also, the FF characters tended to be more significant to the overall stories than the Disney characters, who are usually stuck in their own worlds.  Kingdom Hearts has a lot of the standard trappings that typically come along with Final Fantasy games.  Also, Tetsuya Nomura.  Long story short, Kingdom Hearts has Final Fantasy DNA, even if the FF characters are less significant than they used to be.

A lot of this can honestly be attributed to the jrpg scene in general, the contrived drama stories, the magic, items, etc. so I wouldn’t personally use that to connect directly to one another.  Like at this point KH uses its original characters, gameplay mechanics, etc more than its borrowed stuff by now. It uses the FF/jrpg base structure perhaps, but it twists and molds it into its own unique style that differenciates itself enough imo to be considered its very own thing that can stand by itself and be repped as it’s own thing. I simply just don’t agree with the notion that Sora getting in would technically equate to another FF Rep.

I also just think there’s more to work with regarding Sora for a moveset personally speaking. 

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So a character seems to have been leaked (spoilers?). You probably already know about this if you've been following any other gaming forum today, besides this one.

https://nintendowire.com/news/2018/09/21/rumor-a-new-smash-character-may-have-been-leaked-spoilers/

Spoiler

SuperSmashBrosUltimate-Rumor-Ken.jpg

Dunno if this warrants spoiler tags or not. People have been debating its legitimacy all day, but I'm personally 100% convinced that it's real. 

Spoiler

Guessing he's an echo fighter. Hopefully they did him justice when differentiating him from Ryu.

 

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A Dragon Quest character would be dope. The heroes of the series have plenty of signature spells that could translate brilliantly to moves, like Zoom for recovery, Kaclang to turn into steel, etc. Plenty of sword techniques that they could use for the base kit- or you could have the DQV hero summon monsters for his attacks. 

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50 minutes ago, Solly said:

So a character seems to have been leaked (spoilers?). You probably already know about this if you've been following any other gaming forum today, besides this one.

https://nintendowire.com/news/2018/09/21/rumor-a-new-smash-character-may-have-been-leaked-spoilers/

  Reveal hidden contents

SuperSmashBrosUltimate-Rumor-Ken.jpg

Dunno if this warrants spoiler tags or not. People have been debating its legitimacy all day, but I'm personally 100% convinced that it's real. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Guessing he's an echo fighter. Hopefully they did him justice when differentiating him from Ryu.

 

Spoiler

Personally it just bothers me that Ken seems to have a completely different shader to everyone else. If it were a Street Fighter thing maybe I'd understand, but in that case Ryu would have it too, and he's smooth as a baby's bottom by comparison.

E3-Nintendo-Direct-Press-Conference-Game

 

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1 hour ago, Blacklightning said:
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Personally it just bothers me that Ken seems to have a completely different shader to everyone else. If it were a Street Fighter thing maybe I'd understand, but in that case Ryu would have it too, and he's smooth as a baby's bottom by comparison.

E3-Nintendo-Direct-Press-Conference-Game

 

Spoiler

I agree with that. He almost has this glossy cel-shaded look to him, and it makes him stand out from Ryu, but I have to think it's a trick of the lighting or something, because the rest of the image has too many details that can't be written off easily.

Here's one example:

1pgogzb-png.165940

It has also been pointed out that there isn't any ink splattered around the level in the leaked image. Going through the E3 footage, you'll find that the level does start out "clean" like that, but it gets inked in the first few seconds. Not only would making a close-up of the "clean" stage ordinarily be a lot of pointless extra work, there's an explanation for the lack of ink that makes the leak consistent with itself. Not only is some feed of debug info visible, the timer seems to be frozen at 2:30.00, the default starting limit for a timed match, suggesting that the timer and level are frozen and the ink isn't there yet. 

There's also the fact that nobody has been able to find exact source images for any of the other 3 characters. A few have come close, but not quite. 

There's probably more I'm forgetting. It's hard to imagine a leaker bothering with some of this- especially to leak an echo fighter most people predicted anyway. In my eyes, we're looking at a legitimate Ken leak, where Ken himself is somehow the fakest looking thing on it. 

If this was somehow faked, I'm not even gonna be mad. Just impressed. 

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I heard another baseless rumor, they always pop up on my YouTube feed for some reason, it says the next Smash Direct will be on October 8th and it will reveal Isaac, Geno and 2 echos Dixie and Shadow, plus the new story mode Spirits which is supposed to be a mix of Melee Adventure and Subspace Emissary, plus a test demo but here's the catch: only for Nintendo Online members. I don't know why I am posting this, I probably want it to be true, but maybe it's just what I want to hear, most likely too good to be true...

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15 hours ago, Solly said:
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I agree with that. He almost has this glossy cel-shaded look to him, and it makes him stand out from Ryu, but I have to think it's a trick of the lighting or something, because the rest of the image has too many details that can't be written off easily.

Here's one example:

1pgogzb-png.165940

It has also been pointed out that there isn't any ink splattered around the level in the leaked image. Going through the E3 footage, you'll find that the level does start out "clean" like that, but it gets inked in the first few seconds. Not only would making a close-up of the "clean" stage ordinarily be a lot of pointless extra work, there's an explanation for the lack of ink that makes the leak consistent with itself. Not only is some feed of debug info visible, the timer seems to be frozen at 2:30.00, the default starting limit for a timed match, suggesting that the timer and level are frozen and the ink isn't there yet. 

There's also the fact that nobody has been able to find exact source images for any of the other 3 characters. A few have come close, but not quite. 

There's probably more I'm forgetting. It's hard to imagine a leaker bothering with some of this- especially to leak an echo fighter most people predicted anyway. In my eyes, we're looking at a legitimate Ken leak, where Ken himself is somehow the fakest looking thing on it. 

If this was somehow faked, I'm not even gonna be mad. Just impressed. 

It was. Source Gaming reached out to the people who is working on the graphics, and they told them the details about the leak. A Smashboard user even recreated it in the demo uild, using Ryu and Pikachu as substitutes.

SSBU_Ken_Screenshot_Leak.jpg

v Dare to compare? ^

SSBU_Ken_screenshot_leak_demo_version_re

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1 hour ago, Tailikku said:

It was. Source Gaming reached out to the people who is working on the graphics, and they told them the details about the leak. A Smashboard user even recreated it in the demo uild, using Ryu and Pikachu as substitutes.

SSBU_Ken_Screenshot_Leak.jpg

v Dare to compare? ^

SSBU_Ken_screenshot_leak_demo_version_re

Ok, I'll bite. What am I supposed to be seeing? 

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18 hours ago, Captain Fun said:

Ok, I'll bite. What am I supposed to be seeing? 

a little list:

  • The shading on Ken is inconsistent with the other three.
  • Even though the recreation shows only two character statuses, notice how evenly spaced they are compared to the doctored image where it's three that are spaced evenly and a fourth pushed to the side.
  • Pichu's ear is cut off in his mugshot, although differently than in the E3 trailer.

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3 hours ago, Tailikku said:

a little list:

  • The shading on Ken is inconsistent with the other three.
  • Even though the recreation shows only two character statuses, notice how evenly spaced they are compared to the doctored image where it's three that are spaced evenly and a fourth pushed to the side.
  • Pichu's ear is cut off in his mugshot, although differently than in the E3 trailer.

On Ken's shading: yes, it's a little odd. I don't think that means it's fake, though-- not in the face of everything else.

As for the fourth character status image being pushed to the side... I assume you mean Ken's icon? It's (somewhat conveniently) transparent because Pacman's in the way, but comparing the distance between the health percentage reveals that they aren't really spaced out.

UGDAjSQ.jpg.9a8435f39a75d061e77116bdb831cdf6.jpg

Those lines are all the same length, give or take a few pixels, and they get slightly shorter going from left to right, which is consistent with the viewing angle of the monitor. There are two things creating the illusion that they're spaced out, though. One is the fact that, as mentioned, Ken's portrait is translucent. The other is all of the debug menu junk on the screen that's in front of Pacman and Pichu's portraits making things hard to judge. And this is just my two cents, but if this were a fake, making a simple spacing error like this doesn't make a whole lot of sense when any image editing software would let you see the exact pixel count when lining up the portraits.

As for Pichu's ear being cut off... That's another thing I think is a point in the leak's favor because it means that the Pichu image couldn't have been lifted from any E3 footage. Furthermore, it couldn't have been made using his official art from the site, because that art is just slightly different (note the mouth).

Honestly, the comparison image with Ryu only has me more convinced that this is real. In both images, you can see that Pacman (as well as Ryu and Ken's feet) doesn't cast a shadow on the piece of metal paneling he's standing on (which I brought up in a previous post). If this were a fake image, why would the creator know about that? Why would he go through the trouble of making a version of the stage that doesn't have ink on it? How did he get an image of the stage and characters at this particular angle? 

None of the evidence against the leak has me convinced. I guess we'll see in due time. 

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Isn't it a bit suspicious that Ken doesn't have a face icon in the bottom of the screen?

I'm ruling it out as fake for that alone.

Either way, it's clearly fake. His model has clearly been ripped from another game and transposed onto someone else. Why would he even be in anyway.

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45 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Isn't it a bit suspicious that Ken doesn't have a face icon in the bottom of the screen?

I'm ruling it out as fake for that alone.

Either way, it's clearly fake. His model has clearly been ripped from another game and transposed onto someone else. Why would he even be in anyway.

The icons become transparent when a character (in this case Pacman) is behind it. As for the model; it's apparently not from any other game. So much in the image lines up with the demo build, right down to the feet glitching through the platform. Another point is that the stage should have paint splattered all over it, adding to the evidence that this is a real debug mode.

Ken would make sense as an Echo because he's like the quintessential fighting clone in video games and it wouldn't take a huge amount of work to add him to the roster.

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New Famitsu article! This one mostly talks about Isabelle and differences from the Villager.

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/09/26/sakurai-discusses-isabelle-echoes-and-newcomers/

 

There is one blurb of significance, though.

Quote

…That said, if you were thinking that we’d just be dropping a bunch of newcomer trailers all the way up until release, you’d be sorely mistaken. We may have gone a little bit overboard up until now, so we’re going to slow our pace from here on out.

I was kind of thinking that this may be the case. It's hard to say how many new fighters are left at this point. Just to be safe, I'm going to predict just two, or maybe even just one, newcomer(s) left to reveal, as well as two or possibly three more Echo Fighters. I still think that Shadow has a pretty good chance as an Echo, and I definitely think that Ken is in as an Echo, especially with that picture leak that, as far as I can tell with all of the evidence, is legit.

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1 hour ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

That's a little pessimistic, IMO. 

Perhaps, but I'd much rather be pleasantly surprised by getting a lot more newcomers after expecting only one or two, than be disappointed by getting only one or two more newcomers after expecting a lot. :P I don't know, I just can't help but feel like that quote means we really aren't getting much more. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be proven wrong here. I'm just going to temper my expectations for now and not expect too many more newcomers.

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