Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DADDY SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE HAS CONCLUDED

[Wraith]

I'm not gonna deal with every single half-argument in that post so I'll just keep it simple. I don't come with any perspective on trademarks or how much business sense to do this or that. It's logic that you're able to follow even less so for Smash than with other fighting games that have guest characters because niche and oddball characters happen all the time. being "logical" is ironically the most illogical thing to do with this series as evidenced by people being baffled and enraged by the final roster for a Smash game over and over and over again. 

I'm just going to bow out of this. Don't be surprised if you end up being surprised. 

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

6 hours ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Okay, now explain what the fidge villager was hoping to accomplish while running around in circles.

He was in panic mode and sometimes for comedic effect.

Like how Snake just hid in the box before getting nicked or how Falcon tried to get in the car before being obliterated.

[KHCast]

Geno wouldn’t be a surprise. Just kinda would be a meh choice if that’s all squares using their from their library when there’s a lot better they can probably go with that not only appeals to large audience request, but gives them exposure for new potential people. Again, paid DLC is inherently gonna be more of a business focused endeavor for multiple reasons. You’d have a argument with the base roster, not to be as calculated, as you’re thinking in those general terms, but this isn’t that. The goal is to grab and sell, and so the pool to choose from for these companies WILL become smaller. Especially when it comes to fighters. Square/Nintendo are not gonna sell Chocobolina as dlc for a reason, for example. She’s niche, not well known, and thus wouldn’t grab much a audience outside a niche fan following and few loyal smash fans. Thus not gonna turn much of a profit 

[Dr. Detective]

Goddammit. I just had this thought thinking back to the Sonic and Pikachu thing but wouldn't it be amazing to get a cutscene that awesome in a Sonic game again? Not just in the way it looks but how the scope of it feels. 

That blew the Time Eater entrance out of the water dude. 

 

[Tracker_TD]

50 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Cloud got in and his games coming to switch. Banjo’s license got renewed and he’s been touted as a possibility. Minecraft possibly could get in. Megaman still saw a kind of revival after smash 4. Had bayonetta not been on switch/Wii U, I doubt she’d be in. The street fighter classic games were some of the launching switch titles. 

With the exception of perhaps Bayonetta at most, pretty much none of this has anything to do with the characters being guests in a 3/4 year old fighting game. 

Cloud’s games are coming to Switch, but so are like 3 other FF games. The common link is that the ports already exist, they just needed to be ported to Switch - which will be because the Switch is selling like hotcakes. A more logical thing to point to if anything would be Nintendo’s partnership with Square on Octopath, but I think it’s not even that complicated.

Banjo’s license got renewed because they had to if they wanted to still own the character. It’d been 10 years since the last renewal. Ain’t nothing more to it than that. 

Minecraft is the other one where I can somewhat see it as a business thing - but it’s not really to promote anything, because Minecraft doesn’t need it. If anything in this case it’s the other way around, given how huge MC is.

Mega Man saw a revival about 4 years after Smash 4, and whilst I think Smash had some influence on the decision, I feel like the constant fan requests regardless of such would’ve paid off in the end. See also: MMX Legacy and the supposed hints at MMX9.

The Classic SF games being on Switch is the same situation as FF - why wouldn’t they launch a multiplatform port collection  on a massively popular system that they now had access to development tools for (unlike during MMLC dev)? 

Overall I agree with Wraith - treating Smash as purely a marketing thing is somewhat depressing. And in this case I wouldn’t even say it helps Sora’s chances; you point to “hey, this character’s on Switch!” and like... Kingdom Hearts 3 isn’t coming to Switch. It might, perhaps, at some point in the future, but that’s a fair, fair way off yet if it even happens, and so it doesn’t really apply here. 

I actually want Sora for what it’s worth, and he’s been on Nintendo before so that’s not an issue. But yeah, I think I’ll go with Wraith’s reasoning of “it’s fine to just want things over other things and be honest about said fact.” 

[KHCast]

For DLC though? I’ll concede with the base 3rd party characters, but the ones that were dlc were still notable grabbers like Cloud, or were legacy and had ties to Nintendo like Ryu. Bayonetta again like I said got in more than likely specifically because of the whole Nintendo situation with that game series getting saved by it, and she regardless was a gaming female icon. Hell, Roy and Lucas were known vets from the past smash games, so hype was going to happen with them 

so I still retain that while base roster allows more of a free for all, DLC crunches down on those possibilities. Geno could happen as dlc, but he made the most sense as a base character, and on his own I can’t see being squares choice despite that cult following if they really want a attention grabber that will get people crashing Nintendo’s eshop to purchase them like with what happened with Cloud and Ryu. Both Dragon Quest and KH are large franchises that have Nintendo ties, Lara is a gaming icon, those I personally just see as more reasonable for a DLC spot vs a obscure spinoff character from years ago the mainstream audience probably won’t know who the fuck is

[Dr. Detective]

A game with this much hype around it with a cast this monstrously large doesn't really need to worry about which franchises are the largest ones around to pull from, to be honest. They can afford to just do whatever they please. That's why that Piranha Plant happened. 

Even though I didn't find the Piranha Plant to be as interesting or as creative as some of the other more "out there" inclusions, I rather fancy that mentality they have there. It's something I'd probably be more bothered by if all the essentials weren't already there. That's why I'm giving TSR such a hard time. 

As far as Smash is concerned, I can't say I've ever speculated or wanted anything beyond maybe a second Sonic rep, and even that I can do without so long as I had trophies to collect (but those are gone now so... please be just as good, Spirits). 

I dunno. It's hard being concerned with what else they should or could include when this game is already bursting with so much stuff. It almost feels unreal. 

[KHCast]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

That's why that Piranha Plant happened.

True, but then again, they aren’t selling Piranha Plant, he’s a optional free character if you get the game early on. This would probably had gone down much different if he was one of the 5 dlc fighters you pay for.

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

I dunno. It's hard being concerned with what else they should or could include when this game is already bursting with so much stuff. It almost feels unreal. 

The Smash fanbase is insatiable and always desperately trying to pin down the next thing. They have fucked it up every single time unless the answer is literally handed to them from what I've seen, but surely this time they'll get it or something. 

Or at least that's what the side obsessed with the roster is doing. It's kind of weird seeing people trying to nail down the 5 DLC fighters that won't be out for months and not discussing all the new info and footage we've gotten this past week.

Gonna use this post as a springboard to say the roster debates are pretty tiring. Arguments using really loose information to build points and based in rumors that are only half the story at best. Gonna just try to avoid it from now on. The truth is I don't really care all that much who gets in from this point on anyway. I have more than enough characters to play as.

[KHCast]

I’m for sure happy with Smash Ultimate, I’ve discussed other content within the game even. I just enjoy speculating and discussing who possibly can get in, who I’m iffy on, etc. i don’t see how that’s ungrateful unsatiable toxic behavior. I’m not attempting to peg down the “for sure” dlc picks. I’m giving my personal educated guesses on who I think could possibly show up based on my thoughts, what I’ve heard from leakers like vergben, and the character in question 

”loose information “ my initial point was that Geno would be considered a Mario rep within Smash, and so to me wouldn’t make that much sense as the “Square rep”. I don’t find that all that loose of a viewpoint. I’ll concede if he ends up that pick for them, I also am for the most part pretty content with what we got(I mean I’ll be disappointed Sora didn’t make it, but oh well, I don’t expect Nintendo to only listen to me.); but I just feel as if they got better characters to work with if they only have one rep.(and with Vergben seeming confident the first dlc character will be the square rep revealed, that limits in my eyes who it’ll likely be to only a handful of characters should it be true.)

[JezMM]

I know this isn't the topic of discussion but UGHHHH they're doing the 2-minute abridgement thing again, no guitar solo in Fist Bump.  I'd have rather just had the Null Space version than just the first half of the song but oh well.  Probably means we can expect the truncated versions of Id (Purpose), Counterattack, Guar Plains - and more importantly since Smash is the only place to hear them - Brinstar and DK Rap again too.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Sonic now takes damage if he's in the water. Supposed to be a reference to his aquaphobia.

Although I liked it better when they played the drowning music.

He and Charizard are screwed if stamina battles take place in water stages.

[Red Hot Jack]

Are we even sure there is a second wave/season of 5 DLCs in 2020? It's just speculation, so if the first 5 are already set and decided, I would reckon our favorites might be added in 2020. Anyway, I'm already content with the DLC, even just knowing we will get to 80 characters.

[JaidynReiman]

6 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

Banjo’s license got renewed because they had to if they wanted to still own the character. It’d been 10 years since the last renewal. Ain’t nothing more to it than that.

This isn't how trademarks work. Trademarks are strictly for marketing purposes. If they didn't renew the trademark, someone else could snatch it up and Microsoft might have to rename the Banjo series to something else if they actually wanted it to continue.

 

But they still own the IP. That doesn't change because copyrights aren't trademarks. Trademarks are exclusively for using a specific word or phrase, or an image, to represent a franchise across multiple mediums (such as video games or toys). A good example of this is Custom Robo, whose only trademark expired and was not renewed. But there's still Custom Robo content in Smash Ultimate (which really makes things interested for the franchises that did get renewed trademarks...)

UPDATE:

Something I forgot to mention is a huge case of this factor. The Harvest Moon series. In the west, Harvest Moon was published exclusively by Natsume, and they owned the trademark in the west.

When Marvelous, the new owners of the franchise, decided to go with a different publishing company in the west, Natsume lost access to the franchise. However, Natsume still owned the trademark for Harvest Moon, so the original Harvest Moon series was released in the west as Story of Seasons, and Natsume started publishing different games entirely under the Harvest Moon brand name.

 

RESUME:

2 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

Are we even sure there is a second wave/season of 5 DLCs in 2020? It's just speculation, so if the first 5 are already set and decided, I would reckon our favorites might be added in 2020. Anyway, I'm already content with the DLC, even just knowing we will get to 80 characters.

Of course not. Only five have been confirmed so far and are all expected to release by February 2020. However, there's a strong possibility they will just to extend the lifespan of the game.

 

6 hours ago, KHCast said:

True, but then again, they aren’t selling Piranha Plant, he’s a optional free character if you get the game early on. This would probably had gone down much different if he was one of the 5 dlc fighters you pay for.

I don't think they ever said this. I think they just said you can get piranha plant for free if you purchase the game early. The implication, to me, is that its only free if you get the game and register it (if its physical) before February 2019 or whatever, after which its a standalone purchase.

[Salamander]

19 minutes ago, JaidynReiman said:

I don't think they ever said this. I think they just said you can get piranha plant for free if you purchase the game early. The implication, to me, is that its only free if you get the game and register it (if its physical) before February 2019 or whatever, after which its a standalone purchase.

According to the official website, this is correct.  If you buy the game digitally or register it before the end of January, then when Piranha Plant is released in February you'll be able to get it for free; otherwise, it's paid DLC (not Fighters Pass, to be clear) and you have to pay to download it.  Admittedly, it's a sufficiently generous free download window (nearly two months) that Nintendo probably expects most purchasers to take advantage.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

The only reason I don't want Geno is that he's ugly, honestly. Weird puppet lookin wooden butt hat wearing son of a gun

I also have no emotional attachment to him whatsoever as I've yet to play SMRPG, but that's on me.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

9 hours ago, KHCast said:

He’s a Mario character and as such would be repped as a Mario character

Ummm. To quote a prospective character of Capcom's who may be liable to be on the dlc train. Objection.

Wario and Yoshi contradict that claim six ways to Sunday.

[KHCast]

I literally just said this a page back, Wario and Yoshi branched off into their own franchises, hence why they’re repped under their own series. (Inb4 Luigi’s mansion is brought up, that is still considered a Mario spinoff within the universe of Mario, and he pops up much more frequently in the mainline mario games.) Geno laughably does not. He stems from and ends at Mario. He never became his own thing, he’s relegated to being an obscure Mario spinoff character. Mario rpg would not be repped under a different logo, that’d be stupid 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

9 hours ago, KHCast said:

Cloud got in and his games coming to switch. 

While it's perfectly possible for that Kingdom Hearts games, yes even 3 to get optimized and ported properly for the Switch, we still have no news of such. And Square  are quite stingy and money hungry.

I mean, at this rate, Sephiroth would be a better marketing pick to boost the message that Final Fantasy VII is on the Switch. Bonus points if the remake also gets ported eventually.

[KHCast]

Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

And Square  are quite stingy and money hungry.

Which is why I’m going with Geno not being that likely as a dlc choice should they only get one pick when they have more money benefitting options lol

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

6 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I literally just said this a page back, Wario and Yoshi branched off into their own franchises, hence why they’re repped under their own series. Geno laughably does not. He stems from and ends at Mario. He never became his own thing, he’s relegated to being an obscure Mario spinoff character. Mario rpg would not be repped under a different logo, that’d be stupid 

Dude, he's from strict spin-off territory. From an RPG that hasn't been recognized by Nintendo or Sqaure to the point where his cameo in a remake got removed. Don't be surprised if he has a different icon.

The point here is that, regardless, he's Square property. And would be under Square copyright and deemed by the masses as a Square rep.

[KHCast]

Where in the rules does being from a one off spinoff suddenly not make you the thing you’re a spinoff from? Just because he has been barely ever acknowledged doesn’t change what he is and always will be. A Mario character. They’re not gonna change his origin in order to separate him or from the other Mario characters. Smash has always been about history and shit, and sakurai likes Geno so probably would acknowledge Mario rpg. I mean you may as well argue paper Mario would be repped under something else since he’s a spinoff character. It doesn’t matter that square owns him, he’s a Mario character through and through, thus, the masses will see him as a Mario rep, so as a Square choice to me PERSONALLY, seems underwhelming if it’s just another Mario character 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Which is why I’m going with Geno not being that likely as a dlc choice should they only get one pick when they have more money benefitting options lol

Depends on how much Nintendo pays them. And like many others have said, if no Kingdom Hearts is even coming to the Switch then Sora runs into that problem.

Let's also remember, Nintendo really have to want Geno to accept terms. So, if Square gave demands, wouldn't it be more money making for them to actually market characters from a game on or coming to the Switch? Like say, Sephiroth, Vivi, etc?

Look, I love Sora too, but c'mon man.

[KHCast]

8 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Depends on how much Nintendo pays them. And like many others have said, if no Kingdom Hearts is even coming to the Switch then Sora runs into that problem.

Let's also remember, Nintendo really have to want Geno to accept terms. So, if Square gave demands, wouldn't it be more money making for them to actually market characters from a game on or coming to the Switch? Like say, Sephiroth, Vivi, etc?

Look, I love Sora too, but c'mon man.

I’d argue having a Nintendo history unlike cloud makes him viable regardless of if KH3 is coming to switch or not, but I digress. People were pegging for banjo even without that license renewal, because he had Nintendo history 

I’d also argue Sakurai wants Geno, not Nintendo. And again, if square and Nintendo don’t personally see Geno as all that viable a choice financially/hype wise, but wanna give sakurai Geno regardless cause well it’s his game, I wouldn’t be shocked if Square got 2 of the slots. 

And again,  this isn’t an argument for Sora even, just squares choices in general. If you’re gonna tell me Geno is the best character to use for dlc out of squares library, sorry, I just can’t agree

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

Or at least that's what the side obsessed with the roster is doing. It's kind of weird seeing people trying to nail down the 5 DLC fighters that won't be out for months and not discussing all the new info and footage we've gotten this past week.

To be fair, that's partly Nintendo's fault for how badly executed their Direct on Thursday was. We didn't really get much new stuff to talk about. Much of it was spent on features and whatnot. A lot of the stuff we have to just wait for to try and that's not as much fun to speculate.

And maybe World of Light would've had a better speculation phase if Sakurai didn't go out of his way to neuter expectations of it. (Granted we're on to him possibly doing that on purpose as it looks like WoL has more to it, pertaining to a story mode, but still, no point in speculating that when the game's nearly out anyway).

Point is that, the direct was more closure than anything else on things aside from DLC. The rest we don't have to wait long on, and hey. now more than ever is the time to campaign hard for characters and make voices be heard.

9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

People were pegging for banjo even without that license renewal, because he had Nintendo history 

Well, that and the fact that Nintendo and Microsoft are getting quite buddy buddy with stuff. Also, the fact that Phil Spencer even said he'd be all for it.

9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I’d argue having a Nintendo history unlike cloud 

You know it's funny because he and Cloud shared that "Nintendo history" in the form of Chain of Memories and Re:Coded.

And even more ironically, now Cloud technically has more content on with Nintendo than Sora does. How the tables have turned.

9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I’d argue having a Nintendo history unlike cloud makes him viable regardless of if KH3 is coming to switch or not,

It's kind of hard to advertise it, considering how Kingdom Hearts lately has kinda left Nintendo out in the cold. Whereas with Cloud, Final Fantasy has actually been coming back to Nintendo. "Hey Switch owners! You see this kid you've never heard of before? Go buy a PS4 to play his games".

Versus someone like say, Sephiroth, Vivi, an Octopath character. Heck even, Dragon Quest or Neku.